Sliding

I would REALLY like to hear opinion from someone who drove
C4 vette with stock suspension and with coilovers.
IS THERE NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT IN HANDLING???
I don't remember his name, but CF member that owns steel blue vette
with many mods, I think he also owns GS and C5 once wrote that
when he installed coilovers it was totally different car ( in better handling way ).

EDIT: I think his nick is zelement

Coupe89

I had the FE1 spring. Then changed out to coilovers. Very BIG improvement change in the cars handling (For the better).

I wonder if anyone has changed from coilovers back to the mono spring.... And why...

TAZO

Good to know. I just recieved my coilovers from EM this week. It will take a while for the install. I have to many things going on.

rickneworleansla

Keep us up to date on how the install goes and any improvement in handling. Pictures would be great, especially if you do re-enforcements on the towers.

Thanks

TONYDEE64

I have the full Exotic Muscle suspension with coil overs and heim joint connectors for the sway bars. The front coil overs do cause me some concern as the shock tower doesn't really pass the smell test (at least for me) for strength. What really bothers me is the way the rear coil overs attach at the bottom. Only one bolt holding each corner of the rear. It seems to me that during launch there is an AWFUL lot of "shear action" weight on those rear bolts. With that being said, to date I've had no problems..

bill mcdonald

Yes Zelement is the guy.

I rode in a C4 converted to coilovers. It had penske shocks so this might have made up for the difference, but this was a built 383 car, and when he stomped on it getting on the freeway in a turn, on pot holes and cracked pavement the car stuck to the ground and ripped around the corner. from then on I was sold on coilovers and those penske shocks. my C4 hopped and skipped over that area of road everytime with the FX3 suspension.

DieL

The only fair way to compare coil overs is to have a NEW set of shocks and similar spring rates with leafs to a new set of coil overs. I think most people go from a worn out suspension to coil overs and instantly proclaim "awesome handling".

I have driven a 96 LT4 at mosport long track for an entire day that had DRM coil overs. i can tell you my 93 (that i have driven at mosport/shannonville on MANY occasions) with custom valve/length bilsteins and new z07 springs BLOWS IT AWAY. My car handles flatter, tighter and smoother than the coil overs. It might have to do with the fact that the z07 springs were slightly stiffer and i had the stiffest sway bars available. I also think the fact that my car is lowered 4" and that i opted to pay extra for custom length Bilsteins made all the difference in the world. Lowering a c4 and not having shorter shocks just makes the car want to 'lift' over bumps.

Coil overs IMO are bling factor. nothing more.

1991Z07

Another major factor you've glossed over is that the coil-overs might not have been set up right.

I've ridden and driven a few with them, and when properly set-up, there is no comparison to the monoleaf. The problem inherent with coil-overs is that they are SO adjustable, that unless you know what you are doing (or are very lucky) getting them set right out of the box is nearly impossible.

Since coil-overs are used in EVERY form of motor racing, and come from the factory on just about every single high-end high-performance car sold today, they are not just "bling"...they address specific issues with the monoleaf, such as not being able to get the car as low as is needed to really enhance handling.

There are those who are biased (or bigoted) against coil-overs...and nothing I can say would EVER change their minds. They are the types that say something is black when (in fact) it is white.

I believe those lower rear mounts are rated somewhere in the area of 40,000 PSI, so I wouldn't worry about them. The lower control arms are forged aluminum, and I've seen some take one hell of a pounding and not bend (when many other front components failed), so I don't worry about them either. The upper towers are another matter, and some plate steel added to the outsides of all 4 sides would add a lot of strength to them.

All you need to do is watch a NASCAR show about shocks and you'll understand how particular coil-overs are. Even teams with thousands of laps at particular tracks can't get it right, and they have REAMS of notes on setups they have tried over time. A new chassis and everything is back to ZERO and they have to start from scratch. If you have enough patience, and get some good reference material on how to setup and adjust coil-over suspensions, you'll walk circles around my Z07 when it is set up right.

Get it wrong and you'll wonder why you spent the money on it.

As long as you go into with your expectations set that it will be an ongoing R&D project until you find the right balance, then everything is peachy...

My new racer will have coil-overs in it...no doubt about it. And if I have to take it to someone to get the setup right, it will be worth it (IMHO).

Corvette Kid

Well this is about as decisive as a header primary size thread.... Coilovers is something I've thought about, but it is a ways down on my list as far as mods go. As long as I continue to make progress on what makes the car feel comfortable and driveable to me, it may never happen. My car is first and foremost a street car anyway. Anything else that I do with it is just for fun. This is probably the best and most informative thread I've ever read on coilovers.

redrose

got forced into doing one by a guy with MMTB (more money than brains)...he is in total awe of its great handling....thinks it looks ''mean'' sitting so low (2-1/2'' down in front,2'' down in rear)....really ''digs'' how much better it rides now(complained it rode like a truck before)....and people even take pictures when the hood is up

DieL

Joe i agree with you about coil overs being set up right. I think the only fair comparison would be to have a setup monoleaf system with the right shocks/shaft length (if lowered) and sway bar vs a setup coil ver system with the shocks setup and the correct springs. has this ever happened? i highly doubt it.

One thing i believe is that any lowered c4 using standard shocks will be in for a surprise when going with the proper shaft length on shocks. When you make the switch from a lowered car with standard shocks to coil overs i can guarantee the difference will be night and day. Compare 2 proper setups and who knows the truth.

comp

bogus

I see your points, don't get me wrong, and like everything, they have some advantages... you missed unsprung weight, tho.

As for using them in your racer, I can see their concern. You have once source, used, or, you make them from steel. The science to set it up would have really been time consuming, I suspect. It would have been something of a paradigm shift.

I stated this in the other handling thread, but it has vanished...

I will repeat it.

In the book, Corvette from the Inside, Dave McClellen addresses the TLS setup. Originally, they hoped it would do both jobs - spring AND swaybar. It didn't work out that way.

My guess, by then, they were committed to it... so going back was not an option.

From my perspective, the TLS transfers too many imperfections up into the chassis. It simply does a poor job of dealing with the little ripples... a nice progressive coil would deal with that much better.

As for dynamics... Joe90 addresses much of it, adjustability and tunability.

I was simply using the McPherson strut as a reference, I don't like them, either, but for some reason, Porsche, M-B and BMW have made it work... I guess GM has made the TLS work, too.

FWD not for performance? Technically, I agree, but there have been a few (damned few, actually) FWD cars that can handle... mainly, the old Lotus Elan (1991 or so) and the 4th Gen Prelude, 1992-1996.

Finally, if TLS were so wonderful, why don't others use them?

Lichen

Merle at EM is writing up an estimate for me for coil-overs installed right now. I'll find out the price tomorrow and decide (I think around $1500).

rickneworleansla

They do installs also? Too bad I'm in Louisiana. Are they doing re-enforcements on the towers? If so we would like some pictures. He may have some more buyers here.

rocco16

Joe presents some good facts... and some biased opinions.
Just what is it that has 40,000psi strength? The bolt? the cast aluminum? Remember, tensile strength is just that: TENSILE strength! Neither the bolt or the aluminum carrier is loaded by a coilover in tension...they are loaded in shear, and cantilever shear at that. Bad, bad design to convert to coilover.

If anyone gets anything out of Joes' post, it's that coilovers are great for RACE CARS....for all the reasons he so ably stated.

They are just bling for a street car.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...

Larry
code5coupe
I'm no expert, but I play one on the internet

bogus

Larry,

My problem is thus - so many cars use a "coil over" style set up on the street as it is.

Why is it ok for the Vette to not use them?

The C5R and C6R both use coil overs. If the TLS was so great, why not use it there?

Sliding

That is what I expect. Nothing less.
I allready bought set for front end and I'll be installing it next week.
I'll post results as well as pics.

Lichen

Yes, they do installations. On late model C4's, they do not reinforce. On the early C4's, they replace the shock towers with late model ones. Trevor said that on the early C4,s bottoming out would cause major problems. I'm putting the install on hold and doing a brake upgrade first.

bill mcdonald

While I agree they look weak. both the front upper towers, and the rear lower mounts.
I have even sat with a performance suspension builder who retired and does it out of his garage now (not the be all expert, but knows quiet a bit) we sat there discussing how to try and make the rear stronger. after kicking around a few dumb ideas, we thought, well who has had a problem with it failing?

we decided we would try and do some gussets to my car on the front towers, but lots of things have come up since then and I dont have the money to dump on suspension just yet. mainly the shocks will cost me an arm and a leg. and they will be the correct length.

In addition I would like to have the upper shock mounted with a hiem joint.


I head of the front towers bending.
I have heard the rear frame between the shocks bending inward.
I even heard about the housing adapted to the shock (bilstiens) breaking, letting the spring go loose.
I have not heard one story of the rear bolt failing.

has anyone?