rrubel

Feeling good about Mad Mic's successful trip to our local emissions place, I decided to take mine today. First I tried for a repeat of the height waiver I had last time. No dice - they said they had all new stuff. Uh, looked the same to me - and I think they smacked the headers while going over the rollers. Anyway, I couldn't get out of it and had to have it tested.

So. The lady driving the car didn't seem too bad, but was unfamiliar with the 4+3 and kept messing up gear changes (and went into OD and almost stalled the engine). I thought I was OK, but as she was driving off the rollers she stalled it out. No prob, I thought - I stalled it pulling in gently. However, when I went to restart it, the engine was idling REALLY rough, and as soon as I let the clutch out it stalled. Restarted, found I had to give it a LOT of gas, and it still didn't want to go. Circled the parking lot, the car had ZERO power, and would stall if I didn't keep the revs above 13-1400 IN GEAR. I even managed to stall it in gear. Went back in and complained, filled out the paperwork, and nursed the car home (couldn't even get into 4th gear without the car wanting to stall). It would buck and knock something fierce every time I tried giving it more than the bare minimum gas it needed to keep running.

When I got home, I checked all the plug wires and they looked fine. Checked the timing, it was spot-on at 9 btdc (where I set it). Checked for vac leaks. At idle, I only had 5 in/hg. However, revving it to ~1200 got me to 20, and it was almost rock steady. Doesn't sound like a vac leak. Just to be sure, I sprayed carb cleaner all over the intake (SuperRam) and fuel injectors. Motor didn't rev up once. No codes except for the one from the disconnected EST wire while checking the timing. Didn't see any other wires loose or anything. Thought it might be MAF, too, but the connector looked fine. Haven't pulled the sensor yet - that's next, after my son's swimming lesson .

I'm at a loss for other things to check. Anyone have any other thoughts?

One other thing that bothered me - the facility's cooling fan was mounted up high and blowing air essentially just onto the top of the hood. I kept an eye on the temp gauge, and coolant didn't get above 240 (oil was a couple degrees higher), so I'm not THAT concerned - but it definitely is a bad design...

And on top of all that, the car failed. Not by much, and it was only the hydrocarbons (which doesn't surprise me - it's been running rich after the new intake/cam), and even they weren't off by a lot. But that means I have to take it back AGAIN after getting this issue fixed.

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_twisted_

Any chance the cat(s) happened to give up at that time?

rrubel

The cat (car has just one) was brand-new with less than 1k miles on it. Nothing rattling...
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rick lambert

you think they smacked your headers? I bet they smacked your cat.

65Z01

Though you are not getting any codes you might suspect the MAF. When mine went out the only way I could be sure was to swap in the MAF from my '86 IROC for a direct substitution test.

You can use a scan tool to look at the BLM cell values to tune out the rich running problem or you can jumper the ALDL pins A&B and use the ECM's field test mode to check for a rich condition (watch the SES On vs Off flash durations after warm up). This test will also tell you if your ECM is going into and staying in closed loop once warmed up.

You might try the cut back spark plug mod. This adds around 8chp and does it by increasing charge burn efficiency, which should help reduce HCs.

FELNGR8

First of all, go with what you observed. She smacked the underside. Is there an O2 bung messed up? You don't mention an aftermarket exhaust or headers in your sig.

Get that thing up in the air somewhere that you can look at everything on the underside. Even up on ramps you will see what hangs lowest, and what she smacked. I bet whatever she whacked is the trouble. Those people are idiots.

A non-functioning cat will give you high hydro-carbons with the other gases in range. Ask me how I know. A previous owner gutted my cats and I didn't know it until I did the headers and took the cats off to put on bullet cats. I went around and around with these fools about running my car too hot, driving it wrong, all that. And I had gutted cats, which my mechanic didn't find when he diagnosed the car.

If it was the new cat she smacked, then the entire structure inside it may have come down into a lump that's blocking the exhaust.

rrubel

Hooo. I didn't think about her hitting the cat; I think that hangs a tad lower than the headers (I do need to update my sig...). Good idea to check it; I'll do that soon as I can.

Will also see if I can borrow a MAF to replace.

O2 bung sits high enough that it'd be out of danger. I haven't finished getting the new chip burned, which should take care of the HC's (I hope). I also noticed that the AIR line to the cat was crimped (the rubber hose part) so I need to fix that. That'd also keep the cat from working at full efficiency.

That said, Mad Mic managed to pass with gutted cats and no EGR stuff!

Thanks for the starting points...

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FELNGR8

I managed to pass with the stock cam and gutted cats after three tries. Once I had the cam in there was no way, the HC readings were way too high. I then needed the cats to get through.

CentralCoaster

What's the height of these things? I think I'll lower mine more so I don't have to go on the dyno.

Can they charge me for enhanced smog if they can't get me on the dyno?

FELNGR8

You're in Kalifornia. They can take your car away and crush it if you don't conform.

CentralCoaster

Probably.

I posted the same question in the Pacific section... always lookin' for a way out of the grasp of big brother.

dzierke

I don't know if anyone can take your car away if it doesn't pass a smog check in California. They just wont renue your registration tags. You just can't drive it on a public road.
If your car has headers in California, odds are that it won't pass due to the fact the factory system was altered. My car has 2 precats that drop into a single 3 1/2 inch pipe. I then run a hiflo cat that splits at the rear Y pipe and out via 2 1/2 pipes w/NO mufflers. Sounds great!

rrubel

Well, so much for the easy solution . I spent a good bit of time looking under the car today (as much as I could without putting it on lift or stands). It looks like what she hit were the long bolts in the y-pipe->header clamps, because one of the clamps was twisted around somewhat. The cat looked fine, and in fact sits high enough that it's protected by some other stuff. Appears that the new cat is much smaller than the old one, which *was* the lowest point on the car.

Pulled the MAF for a visual, but it looked fine. I'm going to try and borrow one for a swap today. Re-checked the obvious connectors and they all look fine. Plugs wires are all solid, nothing looks to be shorting out against the block.

Clueless again...

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FELNGR8

Well, at least your expensive cat isn't wasted. You still might want to drop the front of the exhaust and look into the cat to be sure it's still intact internally.

On my daughter's 91 she had a go-round with poor running, in and out of the dealer more than once. Turned out to be EGR related, and it did come on suddenly. She has a totally stock engine with the TPI manifold. I'm not sure what you have for emissions after your engine build up.

rrubel

Some of the EGR is still hooked up, but the pipe going into the top of the manifold is gone (no bung on the headers), and EGR is programmed out of the chip. A.I.R. is intact. I've dealt with EGR issues on another vehicle, and this doesn't feel like that

Thanks for the thought.

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tigmaned

rrubel
so what is it going to need to pass MD emissions? i maybe doing mine soon?? let me know if you want to try my MAF, i am in crofton.
ed

Mad-Mic

Rich,

i'm gonna try and get over soon again. came home from your house and my Rear Y pipe came out of the mufflers and is dragging on the ground.

if it's not one problem it's another.

rrubel

What's it need? Not positive yet. Somehow Mic got just a sniff test, no roller test like I was given. He passed pretty easily. Might take you up on that MAF if I can't get Mic's.

Mic, I'll be here when you're ready to come back.

Oddly enough, when we started it this afternoon, it idled better than it did yesterday. Couldn't take it out; that I'm going to do now and see if it's better. There's definitely an exhaust leak, though, probably caused by them smacking the header clamps.
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Mad-Mic

Rich,

give me a call on my cell phone when you get off work tomorrow and i will come over.

i am thinking if the MAF is bad you'd get a code 36?!?!?

rrubel

Thanks, Mic. I tried to take it out tonight; as soon as I put the engine under load and backed out of the garage it felt just like yesterday. Still seemed to idle OK, but no dice when trying to move. I still wonder if there's something wrong with the exhaust that I can't see; the exhaust leak could very well be from too much backpressure forcing the gasses past a weak point in the gasket.

I don't think it's the MAF, but I may try swapping it anyway. I'm going to call the emissions people tomorrow and then call my mechanic; if he can look at the car on Tuesday then I'll take it over tomorrow night. I need it for this Friday because Bonnie's car goes to the body shop for some rust removal so she gets the Outback.

Unless you want to loan me your Vette for Friday, Mic?

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