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Old 03-28-2005, 03:54 PM   #1
Kehrer923
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Default How to resurface ZF-6 Dual Mass flywheel?

I am replacing the clutch in my zf-6 and wondering how you resurface the dual mass flywheel? It doesnt appear that it comes appart.
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Old 03-28-2005, 04:43 PM   #2
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Technically you are not supposed to resurface it, but if it is to be done, make sure use a place that is experienced in resurfacing dual mass flywheels and has the proper fixtures. This is not something that can be casually done or you'll have major balance problems.
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:13 PM   #3
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Correct me if it's wrong but I think I remember reading on the forum recently that the amount you can take off is REALLY minimal because of tolerances.
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLT4
Correct me if it's wrong but I think I remember reading on the forum recently that the amount you can take off is REALLY minimal because of tolerances.
That is 100% absolutely correct. Mess with that and the distances are trashed.

A DMF is good for about 100k~120k miles, tops, before the masses start to come apart.
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:24 PM   #5
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the guys at my local shop said they would spot weld them together and then resurface them and grind the weld off afterwards.

I've got a 59k dual mass flywheel sitting here if you want it you can have it
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kehrer923
I am replacing the clutch in my zf-6 and wondering how you resurface the dual mass flywheel? It doesnt appear that it comes appart.
GM says they must not be resurfaced. They are pretty clear on that in the service manual. I have heard of people resurfacing them but it's not something I would do to my car.

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Old 03-28-2005, 07:53 PM   #7
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http://www.dualmassinc.com/
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:01 PM   #8
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So has anyone used this Dual Mass Inc for doing resurface?
Just curious.
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:31 PM   #9
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The big thing I was concerned about with my 40K dual mass flywheel was the tolerances allowed for rotation between the 2 masses. Mine was out of limits and it was not reusable.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:14 PM   #10
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that's the thing, there are two factors to keep in focus, the thickness and the condition of the masses.

What I really wish is that they were rebuildable. Meaning, someone could take the two masses apart, replace the springs and reassemble with a new clutch face. If that could be done and sold for a fair price, more would stick with it. They work very well, actually... just a bitch to replace.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogus
....someone could take the two masses apart......
Got that part done, dunno 'bout the rest

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.


I was unaware that it happened, but a shop resurfaced mine when I took it in for a clutch job(that was before I found the forum)
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:56 PM   #12
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Default Dualmass flywheel

Did anybody read the disclaimer at the very bottom of the Dualmass resurfacing web site posted below? Scary!
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:10 PM   #13
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The small print will get you every time. Good Eye !!
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Old 03-29-2005, 12:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89 Paul in Cal
Got that part done, dunno 'bout the rest

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.


I was unaware that it happened, but a shop resurfaced mine when I took it in for a clutch job(that was before I found the forum)
I was right! It IS a rubber membrain. Interesting.
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Old 03-29-2005, 12:39 AM   #15
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There have been numerous tests and comparisons on lightweight flywheels as opposed to heavier/ OE flywheels. Under most performance oriented driving conditions (drag, circle track, and road racing) the lighter flywheels are always quicker or faster. They are easier on the engine and the drivetrain. The 40 pound slug of a flywheel on ZF6 cars was designed just for the ZF6. T56's and 4plus3's don't use them. By nature, the ZF6 is a noisy, rattling, but strong transmission. The gears are cut with a little less helical arc, making them stronger, but also noisier. At the time, and because of the ZR1, GM badly wanted an alternative to the 4plus3 and weak T5, and the German built, badass, ZF6 was the only useable and available option. The problem was the noise that the race inspired tranny made when not under a load (idling and light cruising in 6th). The dual mass flywheel was the answer. By design, it acted as a vibration dampener and noise 'shock absorber'. By luck, its liberal weight helped clutch engagement when the car was sitting still and allowed for relatively low RPM takeoff by using it's momentum to keep the transmission from stalling the engine. That meant any spoiled rotten, clubfooted teenager or 'numb below the waistline' rich, old geezer could drive the car without killing it at every stoplight. It was a smart idea, but it is grossly overweight and does not belong in a true performance car. I am confident we all know how to drive a stick in traffic, so buy a 12.5 pound aluminum flywheel (the clutch surface IS removeable/ replaceable) and enjoy 10 to 20 'free horsepower' and another 600 to 800 RPM. And when people ask what is rattling in your car, tell them it's your ultra-stout, super-expensive, German built, road racing transmission. Can somebody out there give me an "Amen, Brother!"?
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Old 03-29-2005, 12:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500hp
There have been numerous tests and comparisons on lightweight flywheels as opposed to heavier/ OE flywheels. Under most performance oriented driving conditions (drag, circle track, and road racing) the lighter flywheels are always quicker or faster. They are easier on the engine and the drivetrain. The 40 pound slug of a flywheel on ZF6 cars was designed just for the ZF6. T56's and 4plus3's don't use them. By nature, the ZF6 is a noisy, rattling, but strong transmission. The gears are cut with a little less helical arc, making them stronger, but also noisier. At the time, and because of the ZR1, GM badly wanted an alternative to the 4plus3 and weak T5, and the German built, badass, ZF6 was the only useable and available option. The problem was the noise that the race inspired tranny made when not under a load (idling and light cruising in 6th). The dual mass flywheel was the answer. By design, it acted as a vibration dampener and noise 'shock absorber'. By luck, its liberal weight helped clutch engagement when the car was sitting still and allowed for relatively low RPM takeoff by using it's momentum to keep the transmission from stalling the engine. That meant any spoiled rotten, clubfooted teenager or 'numb below the waistline' rich, old geezer could drive the car without killing it at every stoplight. It was a smart idea, but it is grossly overweight and does not belong in a true performance car. I am confident we all know how to drive a stick in traffic, so buy a 12.5 pound aluminum flywheel (the clutch surface IS removeable/ replaceable) and enjoy 10 to 20 'free horsepower' and another 600 to 800 RPM. And when people ask what is rattling in your car, tell them it's your ultra-stout, super-expensive, German built, road racing transmission. Can somebody out there give me an "Amen, Brother!"?
Amen brother!!!!! I've got the Fidanza and it really wakes up the LT1 my car revs fast now
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Old 03-29-2005, 01:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500hp
There have been numerous tests and comparisons on lightweight flywheels as opposed to heavier/ OE flywheels. Under most performance oriented driving conditions (drag, circle track, and road racing) the lighter flywheels are always quicker or faster. They are easier on the engine and the drivetrain. The 40 pound slug of a flywheel on ZF6 cars was designed just for the ZF6. T56's and 4plus3's don't use them. By nature, the ZF6 is a noisy, rattling, but strong transmission. The gears are cut with a little less helical arc, making them stronger, but also noisier. At the time, and because of the ZR1, GM badly wanted an alternative to the 4plus3 and weak T5, and the German built, badass, ZF6 was the only useable and available option. The problem was the noise that the race inspired tranny made when not under a load (idling and light cruising in 6th). The dual mass flywheel was the answer. By design, it acted as a vibration dampener and noise 'shock absorber'. By luck, its liberal weight helped clutch engagement when the car was sitting still and allowed for relatively low RPM takeoff by using it's momentum to keep the transmission from stalling the engine. That meant any spoiled rotten, clubfooted teenager or 'numb below the waistline' rich, old geezer could drive the car without killing it at every stoplight. It was a smart idea, but it is grossly overweight and does not belong in a true performance car. I am confident we all know how to drive a stick in traffic, so buy a 12.5 pound aluminum flywheel (the clutch surface IS removeable/ replaceable) and enjoy 10 to 20 'free horsepower' and another 600 to 800 RPM. And when people ask what is rattling in your car, tell them it's your ultra-stout, super-expensive, German built, road racing transmission. Can somebody out there give me an "Amen, Brother!"?
I agree with you to a point... that point being is the Fidenza is TOO light for street use.

My suggestion is to use the GM F-body SMFW. this unit weighs about 20lbs. A nice weight for a street car FW.

Many drag racers have found that the fidenza is also too light for launch. I understand that the fidenza is great for road courses, tho.
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogus
I was right! It IS a rubber membrain.
No, it is a thin metal. Like tin.
Click the image to open in full size.
There is no dampening material inside that I can see being ruined by cutting fluid either. It's just a spring inside kept lubricated by grease.
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500hp
There have been numerous tests and comparisons on lightweight flywheels as opposed to heavier/ OE flywheels. Under most performance oriented driving conditions (drag, circle track, and road racing) the lighter flywheels are always quicker or faster. They are easier on the engine and the drivetrain. The 40 pound slug of a flywheel on ZF6 cars was designed just for the ZF6. T56's and 4plus3's don't use them. By nature, the ZF6 is a noisy, rattling, but strong transmission. The gears are cut with a little less helical arc, making them stronger, but also noisier. At the time, and because of the ZR1, GM badly wanted an alternative to the 4plus3 and weak T5, and the German built, badass, ZF6 was the only useable and available option. The problem was the noise that the race inspired tranny made when not under a load (idling and light cruising in 6th). The dual mass flywheel was the answer. By design, it acted as a vibration dampener and noise 'shock absorber'. By luck, its liberal weight helped clutch engagement when the car was sitting still and allowed for relatively low RPM takeoff by using it's momentum to keep the transmission from stalling the engine. That meant any spoiled rotten, clubfooted teenager or 'numb below the waistline' rich, old geezer could drive the car without killing it at every stoplight. It was a smart idea, but it is grossly overweight and does not belong in a true performance car. I am confident we all know how to drive a stick in traffic, so buy a 12.5 pound aluminum flywheel (the clutch surface IS removeable/ replaceable) and enjoy 10 to 20 'free horsepower' and another 600 to 800 RPM. And when people ask what is rattling in your car, tell them it's your ultra-stout, super-expensive, German built, road racing transmission. Can somebody out there give me an "Amen, Brother!"?
AMEN! Yeah I tell 'em it's a race tranny too!
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Old 03-29-2005, 03:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89 Paul in Cal
No, it is a thin metal. Like tin.
Click the image to open in full size.
There is no dampening material inside that I can see being ruined by cutting fluid either. It's just a spring inside kept lubricated by grease.
hm. looks like rubber in some of those pics.

I wonder if it can be repaired.
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Old 03-29-2005, 03:27 AM
 
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