MatthewMiller

It's great to do a novice school and then be able to come back the next day and try to implement your learning right away! With those RA1s having a UTQG treadwear rating of only 100, you'll be illegal for CAM-S or STU. You could run B Street Prepared or SSM legally. BSP has by far the more favorable PAX index, and there's a good chance you'd be on your own in the class. That's probably what I'd pick, therefore.

Those Toyos are track-oriented tires but have 8/32" of tread depth when new, so they are fairly rain-worthy and street-worthy. I have no idea how they handle, so with only two fitted you may have a weird-handling car on your hands. For example, if they are on the rear and they like higher slip angles than whatever you have up front, the car may feel like it's always about to spin out even though it really isn't. Just be prepared for something like that.

Although I mentioned in PMs that 11.5" wheels would probably help the 315/30/18 tire work a little better, the downsides are that you'd be on your own in trying to get the fitment to work on a stock-fendered car and they will bump you out of STU. I think the better plan is to just run 18x11 with good competition-oriented tw200 tires (Falkens, Nankangs, Yokohamas as we've discussed), keep the power train STU-legal, and go tear it up in that class for a while. That would be fun, and I think it's a good place for a stock-engined C4.

One thing I may have mentioned in the PMs, but want to reiterate for everyone else reading this thread: of those three tires, I think the Falken will definitely be the best track-day tire. It will take heat reasonably well and probably wear the best. All three are really focused on autocross performance, where the heat is lower and cold grip is king. A killer track day tire in that size is the Continental ExtremeContact Force, but it will suffer in an autocross setting because it won't get hot enough to work great most of the time. It's all a compromise, and you have to decide whether you want to prioritize autocross results or track days. Of course, you could always get a second set of wheels for dedicated track tires (I love spending other people's money!)...

MDeg

Definitely - we have lots of really good drivers to learn from too. X factor is its supposed to rain this weekend - will run either way but will be interesting to see how different it is in the wet.
I should have clarified, I picked up a set of 4, not two. Stuffed them in the cockpit with me to take to get mounted lol. They just fit. I will switch to good 200 TWs as soon as I get the second pair of wheels situated. The Toyos were cheap and I bought them more specifically for the track - just using as a stand in for autoX for the time being.

Signed up for the days at Nelson and Mid Ohio the next two weekends, also for the SCCA starting line school in June. Also lucked into a pair of C5 FR brakes from a yellow car about 20 mins away. Brackets from Van Steel and DRM bias spring are on order, not sure what lead time is on the spring but bracket should be here by Friday. Hoping to get situated on brakes prior to next weeks event. Maybe another dumb question but what are the failure points / what should I check on the calipers (if anything) before I install?

Going to be a stacked couple of weekends here - fingers crossed that it all works out.

MatthewMiller

Gotcha. They should be pretty good in the rain, actually. You might actually want to pray for more rain!

Interesting. I have no experience with C5 brakes. Generally, I would focus on making sure none of the pistons are leading fluid past the seals, make sure they only have brake fluid inside rather than any water that might have rusted/pitted the pistons. Calipers are really simple things, so there's not a lot that can go wrong with them.

MDeg

Sweet - time to get geared up and have some fun then.

MDeg

Ok - quick update after one final autocross weekend before back to back track days. Have been absolutely loaded with work in my personal life and in trying to get the car semi - ready for competition. I had had issues in our previous test and tune event with the car bogging down at the starting line and falling on its face mid course as it would start to heat up. Danny Popp mentioned in grid that the car probably had a bad 02 sensor - I thought that was a potential culprit but I was skeptical because I had just replaced them last season. Though the next week, the car would run a check engine light briefly when idling, I continued to occasionally have power loss once it ran hot, and worst of all, I was getting some smoke from under the hood on occasion. Specifically near the fire wall - but couldn't get a better look from there. I checked the oil and coolant levels 100 times throughout the week - no obvious signs of a major leak internally or externally. I ran the CEL codes and sure enough - left bank lean / H44. Probably should have listened to Danny earlier... Replaced the 02 and haven't had a CEL since. Did a look over on the car to try to lock down where the smoke was coming from - still couldn't find anything super obvious. Pulled the covers that go over the intake manifold and found a lovely collection of acorns that rodents must have stashed away at some point - blew all of those out and did my best to clean the radiator out without removing the shield. Tightened the intake manifold slightly. Was about all I had time to do between work / job interviews / charity event meetings.

Saturday we had a novice school - I was partnered with Bob Armstrong who is on the forums and ran a C4 for years. About halfway through the morning, I went to shift into first and had the lovely surprise of feeling the clutch drop all the way to the floor. Had somehow completely neglected to check the clutch fluid previously. Spent the better half of the morning getting that replaced with RBF 600 with Bobs help and then was able to get some runs in the afternoon. The car felt so much more capable with the Toyos - it was an absolute handful on the old crusty tires Id had before but actually felt pretty agile on the RA1s. I did suffer some issues with power loss as the day continued.


Sunday we had our second points event - I had to run BSP as the RA1s are a 100 TW tire. This would put me in a class I could be way outgunned in for mods - but I didn't really care, I just wanted to see how much more competitive the car would be to the rest of the field (Which is a murderers row in our region). I came into our heat thinking low to mid 43s should be pretty easy to pull off, and mid 42s would be a very good run. Normally I start very slowly and then take up to a second off per run as I learn the track. I was pleasantly surprised when I ran in the high 43s on my first run. Good sign that I had a general feel for the car and track from the get go. But as the day went on - I struggled to make major gains. I cut about .1-.2 s per run but still found myself in the mid 43s with 1 run to go. I said screw it, Im driving as hard as I can on the last run, and finally cracked a 42.8...... + 2 cones. I was disappointed I didn't make a clean lap but was encouraged that I was finally able to increase my pace a bit. Looks like I knocked an entry cone into a Chicago box and one more on the box into the second showcase turn.


I wasn't quite as competitive as I thought I should be on the new tires - I think had my 42 been clean, I'd have been somewhere around 70/180. Of course I was much lower in PAX as I was running a prepped class. Regardless, the car actually felt very healthy Sunday. No issues with heat at all and the brakes were great - even with rotors that were absolutely abused a weekend prior. I am already considering going to an aftermarket radiator, however. I want to be able to run something like a test and tune format over and over again without losing power. Its extremely frustrating to try to find pace and lose half your power band.

Now it is time to mad rush to get the car ready for Nelson on Friday and Mid Ohio next Sunday.

MatthewMiller

That video looks good. Just a couple spots where you maybe entered a little hot and couldn't quite apex the inside cones, but no run is perfect. A big radiator will make a real difference in the cooling. My car had a Dewitts and would never overheat, even with way more than stock power and on 20-minute lapping sessions in 100F heat.

MDeg

Felt like I was pretty good in the slaloms but still figuring out lines into and out of the showcase turns. Was happy that I learned the course more quickly but still figuring out the line theory aspect of it.

After a week that included interviews, board meetings, and getting stranded on my Ducati.... finally found some time to get the brakes done. C5 rotors cleaned up nicely, got the Vansteel brackets and C5 calipers installed up front and put new rotors out back. Carbotech XP10s up front and XP8s out back. It is raining here in Dayton today but it supposed to be clear by the time I get to Nelson.... wish me luck folks.

93Rubie

This may interest you.
Matt's given you solid advice. Keep having fun.
I've kicked around the idea of a STU build, a serious one because I think it would be fun.

My Channel

MatthewMiller

Shaun is a great driver! I've seen him run in person. If you can make your videos look like his, that would be a worthy achievement.

MDeg

Had an awesome weekend at Nelson, working on getting video uploaded. Shawn - I saw an old thread while researching during my last time out saying you ran a 1:20 your first time at NL - I ended up matching that this weekend. Have you been back since and if so what is your fastest time there in your C4?

MDeg

Side note - was very tempted by this this weekend.... waiting on hearing back about a promotion at work lol. Fortunately the reserve wasn't met - maybe I can work something out with the owner : )

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-corvette-105/

MDeg

Finally uploaded footage from last weekend at Nelson Ledges. The weekend prior I had run autocross and had some issues with the car cooling. Throughout last week I'd received parts in pieces to upgrade the front brakes to C5 calipers and put Carbotech pads all the way around to match new rotors. After scaring the hell out of myself my first time out, I couldn't be more happy with the changes in the way the car felt the second time. Where I was white knuckling on the old tires, the Toyos provided much more grip through cornering and braking and made the car predictable to correct when needed. I could carry much more speed through corners and use less effort in braking. Additionally, I had no issues with overheating of the motor or brakes.

I was able to cut my 1.28s from my first time out to 1.20 flats. This is the number I'd been using as reference as it was the only lap times I could find from another C4 at Nelson.

Headed to Mid Ohio on Sunday for my first HPDE with NASA - really looking forward to an entirely different course style and challenge. Starting to have a ton of fun at the track.

VikingTrad3r

👍👍👍

you guys are inspiring me i have to get setup with a cam

93Rubie

I ran that time years ago on undersized ZII Star Specs. Back BEFORE the repave. It was bumpy as hell. I would expect I would be under the 1:20 mark easily if I ever went back. I should see if they have TNIA out there and go. They even had a area coned off on the exit of the carousel turn so I couldn't make full use of the track.

Keep it flat thru the kink at 120mph, it'll stick.

MDeg

Was going to say, I definitely had a tire advantage on you and figured the same on the pavement. I haven't had any instruction on the lines, Im guessing I could do the carousel much better and that it would pay off big time on the back stretch. You are talking about that second kink on the backside that leads into the 90 degree left hander? Im flat through the first but 120 on that second would be.... a lot

MDeg

I need to get the track times overlayed, its just a PITA because you can't do it in post from your computer. Im guessing you can find a used Gopro somewhere for super cheap but I think even for the new bundles you can probably get everything you need for under 400.

MDeg

Back after a long first week in a new role at work... going to have to take a few weekends off from racing fun until I get caught up to speed on real world stuff.

Did make it to Mid Ohio this last weekend to participate in an HPDE intro course with NASA Great Lakes. This was my first time doing anything with NASA, or driving Mid Ohio. A couple of things stood out immediately - 1. I was amazed at how many cars were there. The organizer said something like 400 is pretty normal for their regions. There were lots full of cars and trailers - everything from custom tube frame care cars, to spec Miatas and 944s, to GT3 cup cars, and street legal track toys. After making the 4 hour drive to Nelson two of the previous weekends - the 2 hour drive to Mid Ohio with Columbus in between felt like a breeze. I didn't realize how close it was - if it weren't harder / more expensive to get out on track there I would come up every week. The surrounding area also makes for a really pretty drive in.

The event itself was an HPDE / wheel to wheel racing / Time Trial competition weekend - so the track was hot for 3 days straight in 15-25 minute intervals of different levels of drivers. This was great from the standpoint of getting to understand different levels of competition I could get involved in going forward - but also made for really short sessions on track. The intro course was set up with 4 on track sessions and 3 classroom sessions - but Id later find out none of these were really true open lapping (which for 250- Id expect).

First session was a warmup / lead follow with our instructors. Mine drove a C6 grand sport that is prepped for racing. Getting out on the track was exciting - everything feels much more big time than it does at Nelson. There is much more variation in corner type, elevation change, high speed straights, and harder braking. I love the way the back and forth turns in Madness are mixed into the hills. Overall, its a really fun track.

The other drills of the day were moreso to learn early vs late apexing, car control, threshold braking, how to read track surfaces, etc. I learned a lot but it didn't get an opportunity to truly push the car on track. I really want to get back for some true lapping sessions and get on the car properly.

One really unique experience that made it worth going in its own was a ride along in a GT3 Porsche in one of the HPDE 4 sessions. NASA has a progression system for drivers through levels HPDE 1-4, 4 of which is the most advanced before you get your time trials license. I'd never ridden in a Porsche and GT3s are one of my favorite cars - on top of that this particular session was a 3-wide driving and race start practice drill. Ive got a few track days under my belt now, so the sensation of speed I am pretty used to at this point. But having other cars a foot away from you on every side and driving at full speed is an entirely different experience. They grouped probably 25-35 cars together at once and had everyone launch from a rolling start as they waved the green flag. We were right in the middle of traffic. The instructor really impressed me with his ability to trust the drivers around him and make corrections / react based on what they were doing if needed. Once we got through traffic, he really laid into the car. The Porsche didn't feel completely different than the C8 does on track - but its turn in and stability are really impressive. Under full braking, the car doesn't wiggle at all. I never once felt the car get loose or need to be corrected . Maybe the driver kept some of the aids on - but regardless - coming from my C4 it felt very planted. It also sounds glorious - really cool experience that I was grateful to have shared with me.

Again, didn't really get any hot laps, so attached some slow ones from the first warm up session. Back at the autocross circuit for SCCA starting line on June 18 - my next track day after that may actually be on my Ducati at NCM the following weekend. Also - looking like I will be in Poland for 2 weeks for work in July. If so, will definitely be making it over to Germany to drive the Nurburgring. Lots of fun to be had this summer -

MDeg

Has been awhile since I've had time to process video, but had some great experiences lately. Most notably, ran my first time trial event at Putnam Park with Indy SCCA. I really enjoy the competitive aspect of Solo, but track driving is much more intense and you get much more seat time. TT is the perfect combo of both. This was a Sat - Sun event and in two days, I logged almost 4 hours of time on track, at full speed. Cannot beat that for value. I ran in the intermediate run group, and in the S2 car group. In my run group, I was back and forth with a few prepped 3 series, and about a second off a prepped C5. An LS swapped RX7 and prepped C5 Z were 3-4 seconds faster than me. Fastest in S2 was a BMW M3 or M4, think he was about the same. My fastest was a 1.21.5. I think this is what I want to focus on going forward, just need to find the best league / class that the C4 can be reasonably competitive in. Im off to Europe for July - driving the Nurburgring on the 25th and then running at Mid Ohio in the C4 that same week. Until then -

VikingTrad3r

I will have to look for something like this where its actually a competition rather than just lapping. Time trials....sound fun. In our group so many of us are running the garmin catalyst so we do get to compare lap times. I get massacred ofcourse.

Driving the ring....I suuuuuurrrreeee hope you are taking your video camera for that one. :-)

MDeg

Yah, I need a better data Aq than Harrys on my iPhone. Time trials were a blast. Definitely will be taping the ring, cannot wait man. So so so so so excited.

Side note - anyone here have thoughts on best coilover kits for track / AutoX?

MD