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So unfortunatley inputting all of the correct injector data into the tune made no difference in the BLM readings. Fuel pressure is good and the injectors are new so its not a fuel delivery issue. I also tried increasing the BPC vs VAC value a little more but still no change. I also checked all the header bolts to ensure they were tight and did not find any exhaust leaks. Something is not adding up as to why the BLM's under load are high... I'm starting to wonder if there is a problem with the O2 sensor wiring as the O2 sensor is already new. I have a friend coming on tuesday to help me see if we can find the issue. Since I was planning to switch to a WB O2 anyway we are sort of thinking of just replacing the NB O2 setup with a WB one so we can get a better understanding of what's going on as a next step.
On another note I took a break from the tuning stuff and got started on the air intakr conversion.
I was going to do a write-up on how to make the SLP intake fit but as it turns out it just fit on my car as is. Here's some pictures of it sitting in place. The hood closed no problem.
The only thing that needs to be done is to just find a way to attach it to the fan shroud.
the new intake should be slightly less restrictive than stock...
However, I had another little project planned to improve the engine's ability to get Cold Air.
So out came the upper shroud...
I cut out a 3×15in section of the shroud and used small vivets to attach a piece of stainless mesh in the opening. while not a true cold air intake this should provide the intake with a little more ability to access cold outside air.
I put the stainless mesh in the opening to prevent any road debris making its way into the intake as well as to act as sort of a splash guard that will hopefully stop too much water from making its way up there if I should get caught in a rain storm.
I will update with some finished pictures when the shroud and intake are re-installed.
Here is a picture of the mesh that allows the intake to access cold air.
Here's a few pictures of the whole intake.
I can't say for certain if the intake will make much difference in performance but it certainly seems less restrictive and looks a lot better.
Danggg looks good! Made any progress on the tune? I'll hopefully have mine permanently fixed this week if I get time.
Thanks MikeP84, ya I'm happy with the intake, it was nice that it fit on the car so easily.
I have a friend coming tomorrow night to see if we can figure out what is going on with the tune.
We spent a little time looking at the O2 diagnostic screen and it seems like the car goes into closed loop then the O2 sensor maxes out and it goes back into open loop almost immedietly. So we are planning to install a wide ban sensor so we have some way of checking if the car is actually running lean or not. Once we figure that out we can decide how to fix the NB O2 sensor (if it needs fixing).
Planning to get the Inovative WB O2 sensor kit. Hoping to learn a bit from my friend tomorrow about tuning.
I'll update you guys and let you all know how it goes.
Small update. My friend and I worked on the car yesterday evening. We ran out of time but we did get the Innovate WB partly hooked up. The WB sensor is in the exhuast and the guage is functional but we didn't have time to get it hooked up to the ECM yet. So we have a bit more work to do on that still.
We also checked the voltage to the NB sensor and it is getting around 4v at its connector. Should be closer to 5v I would think but my muti-meter may not be super accurate... we may need to move the NB to the collector from the #7 header tube or I might need a heated NB. Unfortunatley we didn't get to much time to dig into diagnosing the NB yet as we wanted to hook up the WB first so we could see what AFR the engine was at.
Near the end of the evening we tried turning the car on to see where the AFR was. According to the WB the car is running at around 12.5:1 AFR. which is too rich for no load idle. We tried lowering and then raising the VE tables as well as lowering the BPC vs VAC but regardless what we changed the AFR didn't really change. So we must be missing something on how to add or remove fuel from the base tune. If any one know please feel free to chime in.
On a positive note I was glad to see the car was running rich and not lean since that is safer for the engine.
Glad to see you are still making progress! That is a little annoying that you had to go threw the extra work of installing a WB but it obviously will help. That is interesting that it didn't change the fueling at all. Was it in closed loop when you were looking at the AFR before and after VE/BPC change?
Sound like you are getting very close to having your vette back on the road for the rest of the season. almost there!
Thanks for the words of encouragement VT. It can be a bit hard figuring this stuff out, as I haven't really done, much wiring, tuning, diagnostic work before. But hopefully I can get it all figured out.
Glad to see you are still making progress! That is a little annoying that you had to go threw the extra work of installing a WB but it obviously will help. That is interesting that it didn't change the fueling at all. Was it in closed loop when you were looking at the AFR before and after VE/BPC change?
Ya still trying to chip away at getting this thing up and running. Its been a lot harder than I thought. Yes I think the WB will help in the long run, especially once we get it hooked up to the ECM.
My friend was the one doing the tune adjustments and I was tuning the car on/off and opertaing the throttle/RPM so I can't say with 100% certainty but I beleive the car was in open loop when we were making changes to the BIN.
Once you get it hooked up the ECM you will be able to do more VE learns, they should be more precise as well as WOT VE learns. Just make sure you set the preferences in the WUD to WB or it will not learn. Are you going to post a few pics of installing the WB? I am curious how they are installed. Unfortunately I havent been able to tune mine much total as my car is still down. Gonna have to do some digging this weekend to find the true source of my issue.
Hopefully once you finish the install and maybe some advice from bob it will run much better. Hope I didnt steer us both down the wrong path
Once you get it hooked up the ECM you will be able to do more VE learns, they should be more precise as well as WOT VE learns. Just make sure you set the preferences in the WUD to WB or it will not learn. Are you going to post a few pics of installing the WB? I am curious how they are installed. Unfortunately I havent been able to tune mine much total as my car is still down. Gonna have to do some digging this weekend to find the true source of my issue.
Hopefully once you finish the install and maybe some advice from bob it will run much better. Hope I didnt steer us both down the wrong path
My appologies for not putting up any pictures yet. Next time I'm out in the workshop I'll take some pictures and post them up of what we did so far with the WB. I'll also for sure show how it hooks up to the ECM once I get that done.
I've just got to spend a bit of time to figure out why the AFR wasn't changing after manual changes to the BCP vs VAC or the VE table. I would think manually changing the tables would change the way the car runs when its in open loop? I want to make sure that changes in the VE table are actually taking effect in the way the motor runs, since I think the VE learns just changes the VE table values. Not sure if it is just something I am doing wrong or if there is a hardware/software issue that is preventing changes in the tune from actually changing the way the engine runs. It seems like the changes save properly and flash into the ECM sucessfully so hopefully I am just missing something.
After I get that figured out then hopefully I can deal with the whatever the issue is with the NB and start doing some VE learns.
It's fine, know it's hard sometimes. Once you have the WB installed you really dont have to go back to the NB unless you want to. Not sure if that was your plan or not.
The way I understand how it all works is that the volumetric efficiency learns learn how efficiency you engine can take in air. Then using the bpc vs vac it calculates how much fueling is required. It seems like as long as you dont change how efficient the engine can take in air the VE tables should remain relatively the same but you would change the bpc in order to lean out the engine some. For why its not working beats me. That doesn't really make sense. As long as its in Closed loop and reading off sensors, the changes you make to the ecm should take effect. Might be time to jump over to thirdgen and ask there why its not leaning out the engine. Best of luck!
Thanks for the VE table explination Mike. Yes, I have been reading over at TGO, there is just so much information to sort through it takes a while. Haven't yet found any information about this particular issue yet but I will keep looking.
I had hoped I could just ditch the NB and use just the WB for the ECM, but it looks like EBL is not setup that way. It seems the WB is only used for open loop operation and the NB must still be used for closed loop. Bob mentioned on TGO that he didn't trust the accuracy of WB sensors so he setup EBL to still require a NB. So I think I will still have to sort out my NB issues.
Hey Guys, it doesn't look like I'll get time to work on the corvette this weekend, lots of family stuff going on. However I did pop out to the workshop and took a few pictures of the work thst was done earlier in the week.
The WB sensor is suppose to be mounted about 3 feet from the exhaust port on the head and should be installed with the sensor pointing downwards into the pipe.
First we put the car on 4 jackstands to get access underneath.
Then we dropped the whole exhaust system used a 3/4inch step drill bit to drill the hole in the exhaust.
Here is the Innovate WB kit. even came with an extra white face gauage insert in case you don't like the standard black one.
Wiring diagram:
Hopefully that will explain how it is wired up, dynamic EFI has a detailed write-up of how to hook up the WB to the ECM but I will show how I do that here as well once I get to that point.
Here's the WB installed in the exhaust:
Its hard to tell from the picture but the sensor is coming into the pipe with a pretty good downward angle. Also you will note the 'bung' the sensor screws into has quite a long collar. Apprently this is a recent revision innovate made to help improve sensor life.
Here's the WB gauage... don't worry about the number on the screen the engine was off when I took the picture.
Here is a picture of some of the wiring:
Red wire is power (ignition on), black wire is ground, white is for dimming( not yet connected), yellow is to ECM (not used with EBL)
There is also wiring for data logging/VE learns (not yet connected) and finally the wiring that actually connects the guage to the WB sensor.
Your very welcome. Yes, I'm very eager to get this thing all wrapped up and start driving it! My friend is coming back tomorrow after work to help me do a bit more work on it so hopefully we can start making some progress on the tune.
Hey everyone so my friend and I spent some time working on the Corvette again this evening.
First thing we did was wire up the WB to the ECM. It was really easy we just removed the back cover of the ECM, and connected the yellow wire from the WB to one of the terminals in the back. Next we connfigured the WB in the EBL WUD, there was already an option for the innivate WB so that is what we selected.
Please excuse the messy wiring, I will clean it up and finalize it all once we know we have a wriing configuration where everything works.
Our goal for the night was to get the engine idling properly. We had a problem were the VE learns kept trying to make the AFR at 12.5:1. So we ended up just working in open loop and manually changing stuff. We started to get the hang of VE amd SA adjustments and fixed a TPS gain issue, IAC issue and we were able to get it to idle ok at just under 14:1 AFR. That was progress but it took a long time to get there and we haven't even driven it yet.
In order to get this tuning done in a reasonable time frame I think we have to get the VE learns working in closed loop so next time we are going to have to figure out how to get the NB working. We plan to move the sensor to a better location and maybe covert it to a heated sensor. I am also going to double check the valve lash adjustment this weekend using a compression tester to rule out any mechanical issues.
Hi Everyone, Sorry I didn't update for a bit. My Son was born at the begining of July which has been keeping me pretty busy.
However, since my last update I have made some progress on the corvette. I did a compression test that revealed some of the cylinders weren't getting good compression. Re-doing the valve lash adjustment fixed that issue.
I also noticed the passenger's side header had burned one of my coolant hoses, so I replaced it and did a better job of tieing it out of the way.
Moving on to the computer/ tuning side of things my friend and I decided to deal with the NB O2 sensor. We removed the NB from the #7 header pipe and put a plug on the header pipe.
Next we dropped the exhaust and put a bung just after the header collector. My welder packed it in while we were welding the bung so My friend kindly brought his welder over a few nights later to finish the job.
Next we ditched the 1 wire NB sensor and converted to a 4 wire heated NB O2 sensor. The new sensor required a power wire, a ground wire, a 5v reference wire (so the heater only runs while the engine is on) and the original 02 sensor wire. We used a wire from the no longer functional MAF ciruit for the 5v reference wire.
Once the heated NB was all wired up it was time to try firing the car up. Thankfully the NB and the WB 02 sensors were now both giving the same/similar reading. We spent a bit of time working on the idle tune and got the engine to start right away and to idle very nicely at 800RPM with proper AFR. Additionally we go the IAC to have about 20-30 steps. The idle BLM readings were 127/128 so everything seems good at idle
We also briefly tried a few VE learns with the car on jackstands, the VE learns using the NB now seem to work properly. I'm not yet sure If VE learns using the WB are working properly or not but the WB guage is fully functional and shows very similar reading to the NB.
The next step will be to take the car out and start doing to VE learns while driving. But as of right now I am real happy that it seems we finally got this tuning more or less sorted out and I can start enjoying driving the corvette again
06-09-2018, 09:29 PM
