What to look for BEFORE buying a C4?
10-29-2014, 10:43 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
What to look for BEFORE buying a C4?
I've been a regular in the C3 forum for a while. Over there they have a 10 rules to know before buying a c3 sticky post.
I'm wondering if there is a good thread already written that I haven't found with the search function here or if a few C4 experts can throw a little what to look for C4 specific advice at me.
I found a nice 1988 vert, triple black, for a fair price and before I go look at it, I'd like to know what to look for.
Mileage is decent at 70. Manual. Cosmetics look ok.
I know to check to birdcage and rust in kickdown areas like it was a c3, but there are I'm sure, other problem areas.
From first glance, it will need a new steering wheel (very worn), I'll likely recover the leather seats (couple rips), do new carpet etc. Done all that to my 75, so "I ain't skairt" but what are the costs on c4 restoration?
Last thing, is there anything that if I see it I should run with an 88 vert?
Thanks fellas.
I'm wondering if there is a good thread already written that I haven't found with the search function here or if a few C4 experts can throw a little what to look for C4 specific advice at me.
I found a nice 1988 vert, triple black, for a fair price and before I go look at it, I'd like to know what to look for.
Mileage is decent at 70. Manual. Cosmetics look ok.
I know to check to birdcage and rust in kickdown areas like it was a c3, but there are I'm sure, other problem areas.
From first glance, it will need a new steering wheel (very worn), I'll likely recover the leather seats (couple rips), do new carpet etc. Done all that to my 75, so "I ain't skairt" but what are the costs on c4 restoration?
Last thing, is there anything that if I see it I should run with an 88 vert?
Thanks fellas.
10-29-2014, 12:44 PM
#3
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Fond Du lac Wisconsin
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Stroh- I hope that I can help in your C4 search. One year ago, I bought my first C4- a super clean 90 coupe with only 61,000 miles. I spent last summer doing research on C4's so I understood the changes/differences from year to year to help me decide what changes were important to me.ie, interior change from 89 to 90, bigger brakes after 87, L98 engine vs LT1,LT4 etc. A car with all of it's service records can go along way in determining it's overall condition. Check out the condition of the weather seals. A car that has been left outside will show cracked /dry seals vs one that has been garage kept. Replacing them can be expensive. Do both head lights open and close properly. Is the Bose radio and speakers sound OK. Do the tires need replacing if they are old. Does the heater/air conditioning system work properly. You might want to consider driving C4's from different years so that you can be aware of the differences in ride, handling/power. You don't always need to buy the first one you see. Chevrolet built 364,000 C4s, so there isn't really a shortage of cars for you to look at. Hope that this helps and good luck in your endeavor.
10-29-2014, 01:20 PM
#4
Safety Car
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Northern California
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Condition, is Everything!...
Paint, Interior and Engine bay should look clean. Everything should work such as the AC, heat, power windows, mirrors, headlights, cruise control, power antenna etc...The engine should idle and run smoothly and the trans should shift tight.
Overall, the Vette must look clean and well taken care of. Paint, Interior components and Electrical issues are very Expensive to repair!
Paint, Interior and Engine bay should look clean. Everything should work such as the AC, heat, power windows, mirrors, headlights, cruise control, power antenna etc...The engine should idle and run smoothly and the trans should shift tight.
Overall, the Vette must look clean and well taken care of. Paint, Interior components and Electrical issues are very Expensive to repair!
10-29-2014, 10:06 PM
#5
Racer
When I look at a C4 for the 1st time for service...
Customer brings a C4 that he is thinking of buying or has just bought and wants me to take a look.
Now this is a good running car that shifts nice and goes down the road good enough.
I walk around the car looking for any mismatched body panels or popped out side mouldings. That will tell me if the body may have been messed with. I look further if there are ANY signs of that.
Then paint condition. Was it repainted and if so, was it masked correctly. Is there any overspray on the mouldings, weatherstrips, inner fender wells? That will tell me if the painter took the time to do it right. While checking overspray, it's a good time to check condition of the weatherstrips themselves. As somebody already mentioned, they are expensive and take time to install them correctly. You can't really piecemeal this. They have to be replaced at once for a uniform weather tight seal. Open and close the doors for dropping and alignment...again check for overspray.
I then open the hood. Look at the tires. Are they worn uniformly or at the edges (alignment?). Also I close my eyes and rub my hands across the top of ALL 4 tires. Are they cupped? (alignment?)
Did the hood have a hard time opening or closing? (understood the car is on even ground) I'm checking for hood alignment, hood latches, hood cable.
Take the time to look at the wires leading to the injectors. Have they been chewed by mice? Serpentine belt OK? Any noise coming from belt tensioners, bearings? Check oil for white or really old oil. Does the oil smell really old or fueled up? Radiator show any signs of greenish color, rust? Is rear of intake oily, front of engine oily?
Now drive it on the lift (I have a 4 post lift)...
Check around rear axle of bad bushings, rotors, pads. Exhaust OK? Rear Transmission seal leaking? Rods coming out of trans leaking (standard Trans). On 4+3 standard transmissions' overdrive unit oil pan leaking. That's common and really hard to seal up. The screws on those pans are very easy to strip if overtightened so they leak.
Engine Oil Pan (very common) leaking? Front of engine (timing cover and seal) leaking? Check around bottom of radiator for leaks and corrosion. Check for any signs of antifreeze (head gasket, water hoses) leaks. Some C4's had an option for smaller extra cooling hoses (option V01). Watch for those leaking. Look for worn aframe bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, power steering leaks, shock absorber leaks. Also look at the air dams under the car, did the previous owner hit the front under of the car?
Remember that all through this I'm still looking for any abnormal signs of an accident or whatever.
Now we've kind of taken care of the outer, under hood, and under the car. Now the inside...
Whew, hang in there...
As you open the door, look at the door panels. Are they loose? Are they really dirty (signs of not caring anymore)? The obvious worn out carpets, seats?
ELECTRICAL??? Does everything work, I mean everything... It costs a ton of money if something doesn't work on a C4. Engine Light on? Any blinking error messages anywhere? Antenna go up and down automatically when the radio is turned on/off and does it go down if the the car is shut off? Does the stereo work (alot of info on THAT in this forum). Again, alignment...dash, center and radio console, passenger door panel, lower dash carpeted panels (shows signs they've been apart). Those with glove boxes, are they aligned? Do the headlamps go up and down nicely? Do they rub or make noise? Are they loose after they are down?
What about just the general smell of the interior? That's right...Does it smell like mildew? If it smells like urine (mice stuff), that can be hell to get rid of. That could mean a whole new interior I don't care if it looks like new. Been there, done that for a few customers and they regret in the end buying the car. If that's the case, buy the car at bargain basement prices or better yet, walk away...for real.
This is just a little overview believe it or not. As I'm typing this, I'm thinking of more and more to look for.
If I think of more, I'll add. Most of the time, customers don't even know I'm doing this until I notice something. And I invite the owner or potential owner to walk under and around following me and be my second set of eyes. I don't charge for any of this inspection, it's actually fun and we talk cars the whole time.
After doing this, we both have a better feel for the car. I make many notes and put them in a file for later review if I have to. I also take a picture of the option list and add that to the file.
So it's real easy to find a good $5,500 +- bargain C4, but you can spend 1/2 again as much just to bring it up to normal standards and sometimes that's you doing the labor!
Sorry about being long winded about this. I tried to mention everything I could without actually doing it and ALL of these mentioned could break out into many multi sub discussions, some long in themselves.
Others can add from here >>>>>
Chuck M
Customer brings a C4 that he is thinking of buying or has just bought and wants me to take a look.
Now this is a good running car that shifts nice and goes down the road good enough.
I walk around the car looking for any mismatched body panels or popped out side mouldings. That will tell me if the body may have been messed with. I look further if there are ANY signs of that.
Then paint condition. Was it repainted and if so, was it masked correctly. Is there any overspray on the mouldings, weatherstrips, inner fender wells? That will tell me if the painter took the time to do it right. While checking overspray, it's a good time to check condition of the weatherstrips themselves. As somebody already mentioned, they are expensive and take time to install them correctly. You can't really piecemeal this. They have to be replaced at once for a uniform weather tight seal. Open and close the doors for dropping and alignment...again check for overspray.
I then open the hood. Look at the tires. Are they worn uniformly or at the edges (alignment?). Also I close my eyes and rub my hands across the top of ALL 4 tires. Are they cupped? (alignment?)
Did the hood have a hard time opening or closing? (understood the car is on even ground) I'm checking for hood alignment, hood latches, hood cable.
Take the time to look at the wires leading to the injectors. Have they been chewed by mice? Serpentine belt OK? Any noise coming from belt tensioners, bearings? Check oil for white or really old oil. Does the oil smell really old or fueled up? Radiator show any signs of greenish color, rust? Is rear of intake oily, front of engine oily?
Now drive it on the lift (I have a 4 post lift)...
Check around rear axle of bad bushings, rotors, pads. Exhaust OK? Rear Transmission seal leaking? Rods coming out of trans leaking (standard Trans). On 4+3 standard transmissions' overdrive unit oil pan leaking. That's common and really hard to seal up. The screws on those pans are very easy to strip if overtightened so they leak.
Engine Oil Pan (very common) leaking? Front of engine (timing cover and seal) leaking? Check around bottom of radiator for leaks and corrosion. Check for any signs of antifreeze (head gasket, water hoses) leaks. Some C4's had an option for smaller extra cooling hoses (option V01). Watch for those leaking. Look for worn aframe bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, power steering leaks, shock absorber leaks. Also look at the air dams under the car, did the previous owner hit the front under of the car?
Remember that all through this I'm still looking for any abnormal signs of an accident or whatever.
Now we've kind of taken care of the outer, under hood, and under the car. Now the inside...
Whew, hang in there...
As you open the door, look at the door panels. Are they loose? Are they really dirty (signs of not caring anymore)? The obvious worn out carpets, seats?
ELECTRICAL??? Does everything work, I mean everything... It costs a ton of money if something doesn't work on a C4. Engine Light on? Any blinking error messages anywhere? Antenna go up and down automatically when the radio is turned on/off and does it go down if the the car is shut off? Does the stereo work (alot of info on THAT in this forum). Again, alignment...dash, center and radio console, passenger door panel, lower dash carpeted panels (shows signs they've been apart). Those with glove boxes, are they aligned? Do the headlamps go up and down nicely? Do they rub or make noise? Are they loose after they are down?
What about just the general smell of the interior? That's right...Does it smell like mildew? If it smells like urine (mice stuff), that can be hell to get rid of. That could mean a whole new interior I don't care if it looks like new. Been there, done that for a few customers and they regret in the end buying the car. If that's the case, buy the car at bargain basement prices or better yet, walk away...for real.
This is just a little overview believe it or not. As I'm typing this, I'm thinking of more and more to look for.
If I think of more, I'll add. Most of the time, customers don't even know I'm doing this until I notice something. And I invite the owner or potential owner to walk under and around following me and be my second set of eyes. I don't charge for any of this inspection, it's actually fun and we talk cars the whole time.
After doing this, we both have a better feel for the car. I make many notes and put them in a file for later review if I have to. I also take a picture of the option list and add that to the file.
So it's real easy to find a good $5,500 +- bargain C4, but you can spend 1/2 again as much just to bring it up to normal standards and sometimes that's you doing the labor!
Sorry about being long winded about this. I tried to mention everything I could without actually doing it and ALL of these mentioned could break out into many multi sub discussions, some long in themselves.
Others can add from here >>>>>
Chuck M
Last edited by hotmotorsports; 10-30-2014 at 08:39 AM.
10-30-2014, 09:27 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks so much fellas. That was exactly what I needed. Thanks for taking the time, especially Chuck with your encyclopedic post, to help me out. This forum rocks.
10-30-2014, 09:32 AM
#7
Racer
10-30-2014, 11:00 AM
#8
Safety Car
hotmotorsports (Chuck M) posted super info.....
I got lucky..... having owned a '93 ruby for 12 years, I was aware of
many C4 problems. Moved to a '02 C5 vert hoping for a more friendly in-out as I'm now 82..... not so, and I was not enamored with the C5 lines compared to the C4....my humble opinion. Sold the C5 after one year.
Anyway.... found a 1992 in town owned by a high school autoshop teacher (and watch maker). Thinking this guy took care of his cars, I overlooked several items...... the car had been stored for about 3 years (he, also, has a '57 stored).....the engine bay was filthy, the coolant was muddy, the tires varied in age from 10 to 13 years old.
No maintenance records were available. He said he had replaced the opti with a NOS ACDelco, air filter, belt, oil & filter.
The paint and interior were very nice, just needed a wash and vacuum.
After purchase, I ran a Carfax, and nothing appeared except smog tests, and lien transfers.....I am the 3rd owner. I replaced rotors-pads-fluid, all sensors, shocks, tires, hoses, cracked coolant reservoir, and detailed the engine bay, washed-waxed exterior, dressed the interior leather..... vette runs and looks like 'new'
After the addition of Cray rims, and a Corsa exhaust system, I own a really nice '92.....
I got lucky..... having owned a '93 ruby for 12 years, I was aware of
many C4 problems. Moved to a '02 C5 vert hoping for a more friendly in-out as I'm now 82..... not so, and I was not enamored with the C5 lines compared to the C4....my humble opinion. Sold the C5 after one year.
Anyway.... found a 1992 in town owned by a high school autoshop teacher (and watch maker). Thinking this guy took care of his cars, I overlooked several items...... the car had been stored for about 3 years (he, also, has a '57 stored).....the engine bay was filthy, the coolant was muddy, the tires varied in age from 10 to 13 years old.
No maintenance records were available. He said he had replaced the opti with a NOS ACDelco, air filter, belt, oil & filter.
The paint and interior were very nice, just needed a wash and vacuum.
After purchase, I ran a Carfax, and nothing appeared except smog tests, and lien transfers.....I am the 3rd owner. I replaced rotors-pads-fluid, all sensors, shocks, tires, hoses, cracked coolant reservoir, and detailed the engine bay, washed-waxed exterior, dressed the interior leather..... vette runs and looks like 'new'
After the addition of Cray rims, and a Corsa exhaust system, I own a really nice '92.....
10-30-2014, 12:13 PM
#9
Racer
My favorite years are 92 thru 96. I really like the LT1 and 6 Speed combo (LT4 for 96).
Interior is nicer and was refined by then. When they put the passenger air bag on the dash, GM had to get rid of the glove box which I missed.
I like the 94/95/96 seats the best!
I still think the styling of the C4 is fantastic and I feel like I'm part of the car when I sit in them.
If you have a choice, go for those years.
Chuck M
Interior is nicer and was refined by then. When they put the passenger air bag on the dash, GM had to get rid of the glove box which I missed.
I like the 94/95/96 seats the best!
I still think the styling of the C4 is fantastic and I feel like I'm part of the car when I sit in them.
If you have a choice, go for those years.
Chuck M
10-30-2014, 12:34 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Gosh, thanks again guys. Thanks Chuck for the compliment on my current ride.
I'm thinking the c4 is at the bottom of the depreciation curve, so buy a nice triple black vert now, bring it up to speed, wait for the c5 to hit bottom, do the same thing. With historical plates and registration they're practically free to register and insure in Michigan, build the collection the inexpensive way and keep adding until I need to build another garage.
I will wait for the right 92-96. The 88 was CHEAP but had more than a few problems. Still looking.
I'm thinking the c4 is at the bottom of the depreciation curve, so buy a nice triple black vert now, bring it up to speed, wait for the c5 to hit bottom, do the same thing. With historical plates and registration they're practically free to register and insure in Michigan, build the collection the inexpensive way and keep adding until I need to build another garage.
I will wait for the right 92-96. The 88 was CHEAP but had more than a few problems. Still looking.
10-31-2014, 09:44 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Homestead Fl
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
There are no perfect cars at a sub perfect price. If there is they're gone before you know it. Not saying there aren't any deals but not many just give the car away. My thinking is if there isn't something wrong it isn't a C4. There's always sumthin.
10-31-2014, 04:01 PM
#13
test drive cars and see if you like them. pay heed to all the advice above (good advice).
figure out your budget and look to see what you can get for that range.
i have driven a '93 and a 96, both very nice cars. AC worked in both, just felt like fun cars to drive. both at dealers, so price was a bit high on the 96 (13K), the 93 was a bit better at a hair under 10K. the 93 was really well taken care of, you could tell.
it would be wise that if you find a car you like and in your budget to have someone or a (mechanic) shop go over it to let you know what you are in for, repairs for the future....
good luck!
figure out your budget and look to see what you can get for that range.
i have driven a '93 and a 96, both very nice cars. AC worked in both, just felt like fun cars to drive. both at dealers, so price was a bit high on the 96 (13K), the 93 was a bit better at a hair under 10K. the 93 was really well taken care of, you could tell.
it would be wise that if you find a car you like and in your budget to have someone or a (mechanic) shop go over it to let you know what you are in for, repairs for the future....
good luck!