jsdomino

I recently purchased a Lower Radiator Hose, part #24409L for my '95 Corvette, 5.7L OHV (LT1) from Rock Auto. (not blaming Rock Auto, they just send according to catalog).



I chose AC Delco because I wanted the exact fit and quality of the original. According to all sources, including the AC Delco parts catalog this is the correct part.



To my dismay, the part is not an exact fit! When compared to the original part the molded shape is not the same and the inlet sizes are incorrect. The correct size should be 1 1/2" at water pump and 1 3/4' at radiator. The hose I received was 1 3/8 at each end.



I called AC Delco to complain and discovered they have updated the part number to an "all makes" part (probably figured they do not sell many anymore). The correct part # should be GM # 10257252, which is still available from dealers and GM Parts Direct, etc.

I had to purchase an aftermarket part from NAPA which was a perfect fit. Now I am stuck with a $15 part that cost me $8 to ship and $8 more to send back. Don't make the same mistake.

PLRX

Did you really call for that?

jsdomino

Hell yes. First I wanted to know who was at fault Rock or AC Delco.

But more importantly, I was PO'd. The job took me 2 more hours because first I had to fiddle-fart around with the hose I had, then find a store that had the right one in stock, drive there and get it. Add to that the additional cost.

Plus, I was really concerned that this might be a counterfeit part. I am getting tired of having an expectation for quality and only finding cost cutting by any and all suppliers.

I could go on and on about how many times I have gone to a store only to find some cheap Chinese made crap with 1000% profit margin so some CEO can get their mega bonus.

I am not done with AC Delco yet. I think it is time for a nastygram to the company president. I know my business is important to them because every time I call their 800# they tell me so, while I am waiting on hold.

Cliff Harris

AC Delco no longer exists as the company we have known for so many years. It was spun off from GM during the bankruptcy and is now Delphi. They just put the AC Delco name on the parts because people know AC Delco but have no idea who Delphi is.

They are revamping EVERYTHING in their line. I recently bought an AC Delco air filter. The old one had black rubber around the edge. The new one has orange rubber -- exactly the same color as every Fram filter I have ever seen. Hmmm. It is marked AC Delco, though.

DinoBob

And we all know about the batteries. Made in Saudi Arabia. It's not the old days anymore.

WVZR-1

RockAuto "selects" the vendors they choose to sell - their interest is "profit" - their purchases are vendors excess/obsolete/seconds and manufacturers goods that likely failed a "QC" check as well as what some would like to think is first class "OE equivalent".

You experience was inexpensive by some comparisons and you should use it as a "learning experience"

SHOP AND BUY LOCAL


The "fault" I'm afraid was actually "yours" - you elected to do the Internet purchase and you chose the "branding" - had you elected to buy the ACD product "local" you would likely not have had the shipping involved and the experience would have been "toe to toe" and when you realized the issue or a possible issue you could have asked questions and settled it "on the spot".

Absolutely nothing in this statement is correct. The reorganization/bankruptcy had absolutely "nothing to do with" the Delphi branding - Delphi has existed since I believe '99 and is actually a renaming of the ACG group which was Delco Electronics previously. ACD is still GM owned but there is nothing to be assumed as OE unless it carries both a GM "active" part number as well as an ACD equivalent. Their "all car line" products are meant to compete with the rest of the "multitude of vendors" that market similar.

This statement was made I believe something prior to the bankruptcy/reorganization. I don't believe GMSPO ever had intentions of the sale and the statement was released to satisfy a "rumored" sale that was leaked to ACD warehouse distributors/jobbers who had "franchised" agreements in place.

http://acdelcotechconnect.com/pressrelease/

Your "country of origin" possibly for "that market" but I doubt "imported". The ACD - 60 which is an "economy line" offering I believe was initially all sourced from Korea. Has that changed? Maybe but I'd doubt. The balance of the ACD line which would include the "Professional Series" is I believe a Johnson Controls product.

DinoBob

Your post is mean-spirited and factually incorrect to boot. The OP made an effort to buy AC Delco from an online retailer, as opposed to an off-brand. He expected OE fitment. It's not his fault that AC Delco is playing the old switcheroo. As for RockAuto, they often stock things which my local jobbers have dropped from their lines and my own private economy dictates that I not pay $50 for something that they sell for $25, so shopping there is sometimes a no-brainer.

Do your research on AC Delco. It's not as simple as what you stated here. The name means very little to anyone other than NCRS anymore. You never know where the part is coming from.

WVZR-1

And you know "where the part was sourced" by RockAuto how? Is maybe the part mis-tagged and rejected by QC that caught it? How about a return that was "bought and resold" by RockAuto. There's much that's not known OR will ever be learned from this single incident EXCEPT - "BUY LOCAL" - Is that "mean spirited"?

There are multiple reports of issues with products purchased from RockAuto - "BUYER BEWARE" or "YMMV" is maybe "mean spirited" also.

I'd think if a supplier had a few hundred pieces of a product that failed someone's QC they'd certainly be looking for an "outlet".

It's unfortunate the OP received what he received but whose actually "responsible"? Hard to actually determine.

I believe I understand AC Delco and I've mentioned several times it's a "branding" and NOT a "direct vendor/manufacturer/supplier". No different than MOPAR - FOMOCO "branding" parts of sources other than their own manufacture. They do though generally carry a reasonable warranty.

WW7

To Quote Paul Harvey...

And now , the rest of the story...WW

Delphi Automotive PLC is an American multinational automotive parts manufacturing company headquartered in Troy, Michigan, United States.[1] It is one of the world's largest automotive parts manufacturers and has approximately 146,600 employees, of whom around 18,900 are in the United States.[3]

With offices worldwide, the company operates 150 wholly owned manufacturing sites, 44 joint ventures, 53 customer centers and sales offices, and 33 technical centers across 38 countries.

1994: General Motors formed Automotive Components Group.
1995: ACG was renamed Delphi Automotive Systems.
1997: GM and Hughes Electronics Corporation spin-off of Hughes Defense electronics business and transfer Delco Electronics from Hughes to Delphi.
1999: Delphi Automotive Systems became a fully independent publicly held corporation.
2000: Delphi purchased UK based Lucas Diesel Systems from TRW Inc who purchased its parent LucasVarity plc in 1999.
2001: 11,500 jobs were cut worldwide (Bischoff 1A).
2002: Delphi Automotive Systems was renamed Delphi Corporation reflecting its diversified business direction.
2004: Delphi was subpoenaed by the Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC) in July for irregular accounting practices and financial transactions.
2005: Delphi disclosed irregular accounting practices. A number of executives, including CFO Alan Dawes, resign. Delphi Chairman J.T. Battenberg retires. Delphi files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection to reorganize its struggling U.S. operations. As a result of this action, the Securities and Exchange Commission granted an application by the New York Stock Exchange to delist Delphi's common stock and bonds.[4] The stock traded over the counter on the Pink Sheets electronic exchange.
2005: Twenty-four plants closed down in the U.S.
2006: Delphi announced it would sell off or close 21 of its 29 plants in the United States. The eight plants it intends to keep are located in Brookhaven, Mississippi; Clinton, Mississippi; Grand Rapids, Michigan; Kokomo, Indiana; Lockport, New York; Rochester, New York; Warren, Ohio; and Vandalia, Ohio. Delphi proposes that these remaining plants will operate with wage reductions and workforce reductions.
February 2007: Delphi announced the closure of its plant in Puerto Real, Cádiz, Spain, with a loss of 1600 direct jobs and more than 2500 indirect jobs.[5] despite having agreed to continue its manufacturing operations until 2010 and receiving more than €25 million from various public administrations in order to guarantee its workers' jobs.[6] The Andalusian autonomous government announced it would begin legal action against the company for breach of local labor laws.[7]
May 2008: Delphi filed a lawsuit against investors. The lawsuit seeks to impose payment by investors in the amount of $2.55 billion in securities to aid Delphi as it seeks to come out of bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in New York ruled to allow Delphi to seek payments through a contract against Appaloosa Management LP as well as denying investors' request for a cap of $250 million for damages.[8][clarification needed]
6 October 2009: Delphi's core assets were purchased by a group of private investors to create a new Delphi Corporation. Some of its non-core steering operations have been sold to General Motors Company, the successor to the bankrupt Motors Liquidation Company that used to be the old General Motors Corporation. The stock was cancelled. The old Delphi Corporation was renamed DPH Holdings Corporation.[9]

WVZR-1

That's the Delphi aspect BUT as I mentioned earlier ACD is not and was never a part of Delphi - do Delphi parts find their way into ACD "packaging"? Of course.

BTW - it was an interesting read!

jsdomino

While I fully admit my original post was something of a rant, please take from it the most important piece of information.

I called AC Delco to complain and discovered they have updated the part number to an "all makes" part (probably figured they do not sell many anymore). The correct part # should be GM # 10257252, which is still available from dealers and GM Parts Direct, etc.

I don't care where you buy it, save yourself the trouble by purchasing the correct part if you choose to stick with AC Delco.

Joe C

just to add my 2 cents - I'm replacing the original upper and lower radiator hoses on my 90. I bought ACD parts, and although they are different part numbers from the originals, they look to be an exact replacement. these hoses are identified as "ACDelco professional" and are marked as "made in the USA." I bought them from ACDelco, through amazon-dot-com. I'm assuming "professional" is the quality grade, and a "better than" part than what's available at your local discount house, but I don't know for sure. in another case, I bought a set of ACD FR5LS spark plugs from summit racing. the individual boxes are ID'd as "made in mexico" whereas the FR5LS pulled out are actually stamped as "made in USA" other than that, they appear to be identical. I don't think the plugs pulled are originals - can't say who or when they were installed. they look to be in very good condition with little mileage, so I may just clean, check the gap, and re-install. I bought the 90 with 36K miles on the clock. I have noticed that delco parts purchased through my local chevy dealer are usually ID'd as "made in the USA," and those from parts houses ID'd as "made in mexico."

Txbobcat

I bought the same hoses as you that didnt fit from Oreilys

WVZR-1

There will always be "fit/finish/quality" issues regardless of "branding" and my thoughts about "buy local" have more to do with supporting "your friends/family" and ALSO if you establish "local" relationships regardless of what your buying there's more than likely someone there that can HELP if it's really needed.

Establish a relationship with "locals" and don't approach everyone with a "damned attitude" when you walk in the door. Nearly all believe the talent at the "local A-chains" is less than their own BUT often that's actually not the case! The seemingly foolish questions they might ask is often what's required to get the "electronic catalog" operational. The guy at the A-chain will even "loan you a tool"!

RockAuto can offer what in support?

The more established jobbers offer likely more informational sources and knowledge.

Truth is they may NOT be all that well versed with our 20 - 25 year old product but I'll bet they can shame you with maybe "newer" technology knowledge. The "newer" they see more frequently, there's more of them and it becomes second nature.

The age of the C4 tends to render it somewhat "non serviceable" in maybe most dealer offered parts and services but they can certainly offer substantial support if needed - a relationship with a "parts guy" can be quite valuable. If you walk in the door with the remark "I can't find it anywhere else I've tried sixteen sources" - how would you suspect he's going to react? Relationships generally foster pricing considerations and he's certainly got the knowledge base available if he knows how to or wants to use it.

Someone months ago used a dealer for some key information and then took the purchase elsewhere. Right or wrong I won't comment but there's a wealth of information available if you approach the conversations with a more positive attitude.

Buy your parts guy a soda or maybe be sure to say thank you with a "hand-shake" when leaving - he will remember.

"parts guy" = guy or gal

"he" should include probably "she"

Joe C

WV, not sure what you mean by "professional series" is a Johnson Control product - ??? also, referring to the dash number (ADC-60), the plugs I mentioned seem to have a -20 identification. can you clarify or provide additional information on these dash numbers. I tried googling this, and professional series, but came up blank on the dash numbers, and only "batteries" for professional series.

edit - just checked all 8 plugs - about half of the plugs pulled are a -20, the others are -22. I'm beginning to think these numbers might have something to do with the manufacturing process - ???

WW7

with WVZR-1 about buying local if you can.. I always purchase from my local Advance Auto store, they can get almost anything in one day that they don't have in stock.. Alot of people don't know it, but Advance auto has a price match guarantee, and they will honor any price you show them from a parts store or catalog, just not a place like ebay..They matched the Summit racing price on my Edelbrock intake so I bought from them.......WW

PS,,WVZR-1... Im the one who had the dealer check the key for resistence , then bought it online somewhere else.. I never came back on here to argue my point with you about your comments because I don't like to argue..But the guy at the dealership parts counter was the one that told me to go online for the key.. He said "if" they could get just one key at a time, it would be a few weeks to get it, and then he told me where online to buy the key..If they would of had one in stock I would of bought the key from them....Hope this clears the issue up...WW

WVZR-1

The AC Delco "Professional Series" batteries are I'm quite sure still all produced/manufactured by Johnson Controls for GM/ACD. These are batteries with several months(30 - 50) of "no charge" replacement and then depending on the battery it's pro-rated for the balance. They have some 5YR that are only 18 MO. There's very few battery "manufacturers" in the US, many "brands" - few manufacturers.

The ACD-60 is a lesser battery that was introduced I believe to compete with the "chains" for sales to persons with less concern with the warranties. An ACD 60 battery would always I think be displayed as ACDXXX-60 (XXX being group).

Easier to understand maybe here:

http://www.acdelcotechconnect.com/pd...y_warranty.pdf

The spark-plugs I don't know but I'd be inclined to believe are all "outsourced" presently.

Snapshot of your -20 and -22's.

WVZR-1

Like you mentioned yesterday - "the rest of the story"

The "parts guy" did you well! There's what a "relationship' get's a person in the quest for parts/service - not just car parts but for everything that needs parts/service. The "parts guy" was looking to see that you were made happy.

Joe C

the more I google this ACD thing, the more I'm reading (on several other forums) that "just because it says made in the USA, doesn't mean it IS made in the USA." somehow, GM/ACD may be skating the issue - but who knows??? my summit racing ACD plugs are not stamped with anything - only the box says "made in mexico." again, I'm beginning to think the dash numbers on the plugs may have something to do with the plant, production line, or manufacturing process, or ???

WW7

Hey Joe, at least there made in Mexico and not China.......WW

Check out this link....

http://izismile.com/2013/06/26/how_s...na_8_pics.html
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