Overall reliability of 2 or 3 decades old cars?
12-22-2013, 11:35 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Overall reliability of 2 or 3 decades old cars?
I'm going to ask a question here about the general durability and reliability of cars that are 2 or 3 decades old. First a bit of background.
I bought my (second) C4 at the end of last May, a 1992 convertible with just 9,400 miles on it.
In buying it, I figured that because of the low miles, it should drive "like a new car", and most mechanical moving metal wear parts (like piston rings, water pump, alternator) would be "like new". That has turned out to be the case. No issues, and no replacements required. Even the FX3 suspension works fine. So does the Bose sound system.
But, I also thought that perhaps after 21 years, even though the car had obviously been stored indoors most of the time, I could expect problems with parts that degrade with time, like serpentine belt, tires, and weather seals, and with electrical connections that corrode given enough time, especially during humid periods. And I figured that any places that don't normally require frequent lubrication might finally require some after 2 decades simply because the original lubricant degrades or gets washed out by rain or car washes after a long enough time.
The tires, belt, and weatherseals have turned out to be non-problems. The previous owner kept replacing the tires and belt over the years (my tires for example were about 2 years old when I got the car, and had an estimated 95% tread). And, he must have, like me, treated the weather seals regularly, because they are impressively good after 21 years.
Two electrical connection issues did arise. The wipers would turn on but then not turn off until the key was turned off (fun on a freeway). That simply required cleaning all the terminal connections to the wiper motor assembly, and applying dielectric grease to help inhibit future corrosion. It isn't surprising that this occurred with the wiper motor assembly, as its necessary location naturally exposes it to water. A second electrical issue manifested as the automatic temperature control one hot day suddenly blowing hot air versus cold. The mechanic who troubleshooted it for me in a little over an hour said the cause was a corroded connection on a relay that caused the relay to overheat and fail, without blowing a fuse (the current never got high enough to blow the fuse, but the heat was evidently sufficient to break the already bad electrical connection right at the relay itself). So far, these have been the only two electrical connection issues.
The only lubrication issues I have experienced have been with the hood, door hinges, and door locks. The hood was pretty stiff to open until I lubricated the cable ends, the hood pins, the pin latches, and the hood pin sockets. Now it's very easy to open. The driver door squeaked when opened until I lubricated the hinges. Both the driver door and the passenger door locks needed silicone lubricant to make them less stiff - the passenger one especially, presumably because it got less "exercising" than the driver side, as the previous owner averaged an almost identically steady 450 miles per year (per the Carfax report ).
But that's all I've encountered that I can recall, over the past 7 months of ownership. I view that as somewhat of a miracle, as we all know that GM in the early 1990s was not known for its quality.
This has encouraged me to think that maybe older cars CAN be reliable, provided that they don't already have a ton of miles on them. That leads me back to a backburnered dream of someday buying an older but low mileage 32 Ford roadster or coupe. I dot mean an "original" 32, but rather a "32" replica "toy" built maybe a decade or 2 ago, using a modern Chevy crate engine, fiberglass body, and aftermarket frame and used very little.
These '32 toys cost a surprising LOT to build - like $45k to $55k for a modest one, because there are no production economies of scale and because standardization of "modern" '32 parts is still just an unrealized dream, so these cars are built with ridiculously costly unique parts (e.g. the radiator shell) that have to be "fitted" to each other.
They also tend to depreciate a lot right away because the market for unique cars with decades old ergonomics and lack of features is narrow. That's why I want to buy a used one that someone else has already taken the depreciation hit on.
But, I wonder, how reliable would one be, if I use it as a secondary daily driver. My wife and I have a "practical" mini-SUV for family use and practical outings, but I crave a real toy that is durable enough and simple enough that I can keep improving and personalizing over a couple of decades, without the required wear parts becoming "obsolete". I had hoped that the '92 would fulfill that role, but as I learn more about its underpinnings (e.g. Optispark, spark plug wire replacement, suspension, weather seal replacement effort), I realize the C4 is not simple at all, and I also see that many parts are already either unavailable or very costly.
A '32 Ford roadster with convertible top, or a '32 coupe (much more costly) both look invitingly simple in comparison, and while they lack the sophistication of a Corvette, they are just as much or more fun (Try driving one even a short distance!).
So, here's the question: if you buy a low mileage older car that uses relatively standard wear parts, how reliable is it if you attempt to use it for secondary daily driver use? (i.e. does not need to be 100% available to commute to work every day, but should not require weeks of downtime waiting for parts)
Jim G
I bought my (second) C4 at the end of last May, a 1992 convertible with just 9,400 miles on it.
In buying it, I figured that because of the low miles, it should drive "like a new car", and most mechanical moving metal wear parts (like piston rings, water pump, alternator) would be "like new". That has turned out to be the case. No issues, and no replacements required. Even the FX3 suspension works fine. So does the Bose sound system.
But, I also thought that perhaps after 21 years, even though the car had obviously been stored indoors most of the time, I could expect problems with parts that degrade with time, like serpentine belt, tires, and weather seals, and with electrical connections that corrode given enough time, especially during humid periods. And I figured that any places that don't normally require frequent lubrication might finally require some after 2 decades simply because the original lubricant degrades or gets washed out by rain or car washes after a long enough time.
The tires, belt, and weatherseals have turned out to be non-problems. The previous owner kept replacing the tires and belt over the years (my tires for example were about 2 years old when I got the car, and had an estimated 95% tread). And, he must have, like me, treated the weather seals regularly, because they are impressively good after 21 years.
Two electrical connection issues did arise. The wipers would turn on but then not turn off until the key was turned off (fun on a freeway). That simply required cleaning all the terminal connections to the wiper motor assembly, and applying dielectric grease to help inhibit future corrosion. It isn't surprising that this occurred with the wiper motor assembly, as its necessary location naturally exposes it to water. A second electrical issue manifested as the automatic temperature control one hot day suddenly blowing hot air versus cold. The mechanic who troubleshooted it for me in a little over an hour said the cause was a corroded connection on a relay that caused the relay to overheat and fail, without blowing a fuse (the current never got high enough to blow the fuse, but the heat was evidently sufficient to break the already bad electrical connection right at the relay itself). So far, these have been the only two electrical connection issues.
The only lubrication issues I have experienced have been with the hood, door hinges, and door locks. The hood was pretty stiff to open until I lubricated the cable ends, the hood pins, the pin latches, and the hood pin sockets. Now it's very easy to open. The driver door squeaked when opened until I lubricated the hinges. Both the driver door and the passenger door locks needed silicone lubricant to make them less stiff - the passenger one especially, presumably because it got less "exercising" than the driver side, as the previous owner averaged an almost identically steady 450 miles per year (per the Carfax report ).
But that's all I've encountered that I can recall, over the past 7 months of ownership. I view that as somewhat of a miracle, as we all know that GM in the early 1990s was not known for its quality.
This has encouraged me to think that maybe older cars CAN be reliable, provided that they don't already have a ton of miles on them. That leads me back to a backburnered dream of someday buying an older but low mileage 32 Ford roadster or coupe. I dot mean an "original" 32, but rather a "32" replica "toy" built maybe a decade or 2 ago, using a modern Chevy crate engine, fiberglass body, and aftermarket frame and used very little.
These '32 toys cost a surprising LOT to build - like $45k to $55k for a modest one, because there are no production economies of scale and because standardization of "modern" '32 parts is still just an unrealized dream, so these cars are built with ridiculously costly unique parts (e.g. the radiator shell) that have to be "fitted" to each other.
They also tend to depreciate a lot right away because the market for unique cars with decades old ergonomics and lack of features is narrow. That's why I want to buy a used one that someone else has already taken the depreciation hit on.
But, I wonder, how reliable would one be, if I use it as a secondary daily driver. My wife and I have a "practical" mini-SUV for family use and practical outings, but I crave a real toy that is durable enough and simple enough that I can keep improving and personalizing over a couple of decades, without the required wear parts becoming "obsolete". I had hoped that the '92 would fulfill that role, but as I learn more about its underpinnings (e.g. Optispark, spark plug wire replacement, suspension, weather seal replacement effort), I realize the C4 is not simple at all, and I also see that many parts are already either unavailable or very costly.
A '32 Ford roadster with convertible top, or a '32 coupe (much more costly) both look invitingly simple in comparison, and while they lack the sophistication of a Corvette, they are just as much or more fun (Try driving one even a short distance!).
So, here's the question: if you buy a low mileage older car that uses relatively standard wear parts, how reliable is it if you attempt to use it for secondary daily driver use? (i.e. does not need to be 100% available to commute to work every day, but should not require weeks of downtime waiting for parts)
Jim G
Last edited by JimGnitecki; 12-22-2013 at 12:00 PM.
12-22-2013, 11:39 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
I'm going to ask a question here about the general durability and reliability of cars that are 2 or 3 decades old. First a bit of background.
I bought my (second) C4 at the end of last May, a 1992 convertible with just 9,400 miles on it.
In buying it, I figured that because of the low miles, it should drive "like a new car", and most mechanical moving metal wear parts (like piston rings, water pump, alternator) would be "like new". That has turned out to be the case. No issues, and no replacements required. Even the FX3 suspension works fine. So does the Bose sound system.
But, I also thought that perhaps after 21 years, even though the car had obviously been stored indoors most of the time, I could expect problems with parts that degrade with time, like serpentine belt, tires, and weather seals, and with electrical connections that corrode given enough time, especially during humid periods. And I figured that any places that don't normally require frequent lubrication might finally require some after 2 decades simply because the original lubricant degrades or gets washed out by rain or car washes after a long enough time.
The tires, belt, and weatherseals have turned out to be non-problems. The previous owner kept replacing the tires and belt over the years (my tires for example were about 2 years old when I got the car, and had an estimated 95% tread). And, he must have, like me, treated the weather seals regularly, because they are impressively good after 21 years.
Two electrical connection issues did arise. The wipers would turn on but then not turn off until the key was turned off (fun on a freeway). That simply required cleaning all the terminal connections to the wiper motor assembly, and applying dielectric grease to help inhibit future corrosion. It isn't surprising that this occurred with the wiper motor assembly, as its necessary location naturally exposes it to water. A second electrical issue manifested as the automatic temperature control one hot day suddenly blowing hot air versus cold. The mechanic who troubleshooted it for me in a little over an hour said the cause was a corroded connection on a relay that caused the relay to overheat and fail, without blowing a fuse (the current never got high enough to blow the fuse, but the heat was evidently sufficient to break the already bad electrical connection right at the relay itself). So far, these have been the only two electrical connection issues.
The only lubrication issues I have experienced have been with the hood, door hinges, and door locks. The hood was pretty stiff to open until I lubricated the cable ends, the hood pins, the pin latches, and the hood pin sockets. Now it's very easy to open. The driver door squeaked when opened until I lubricated the hinges. Both the driver door and the passenger door locks needed silicone lubricant to make them less stiff - the passenger one especially, presumably because it got less "exercising" than the driver side, as the previous owner averaged an almost identically steady 450 miles per year (per the Carfax report ).
But that's all I've encountered that I can recall, over the past 7 months of ownership. I view that as somewhat of a miracle, as we all know that GM in the early 1990s was not known for its quality.
This has encouraged me to think that maybe older cars CAN be reliable, provided that they don't already have a ton of miles on them. That leads me back to a backburnered dream of someday buying an older but low mileage 32 Ford roadster or coupe. I dot mean an "original" 32, but rather a "32" "toy" built maybe a decade or 2 ago, using a modern Chevy crate engine, fiberglass body, and aftermarket frame and used very little.
These '32 toys cost a surprising LOT to build - like $45k to $55k for a modest one, because there are no production economies of scale and because standardization of "modern" '32 parts is still just an unrealized dream, so these cars are built with ridiculously costly unique parts (e.g. the radiator shell) that have to be "fitted" to each other.
They also tend to depreciate a lot right away because the market for unique cars with decades old ergonomics and lack of features is narrow. That's why I want to buy a used one that someone else has already taken the depreciation hit on.
But, I wonder, how reliable would one be, if I use it as a secondary daily driver. My wife and I have a "practical" mini-SUV for family use and practical outings, but I crave a real toy that is durable enough and simple enough that I can keep improving and personalizing over a couple of decades, without the required wear parts becoming "obsolete". I had hoped that the '92 would fulfill that role, but as I learn more about its underpinnings (e.g. Optispark, spark plug wire replacement, suspension, weather seal replacement effort), I realize the C4 is not simple at all, and I also see that many parts are already either unavailable or very costly.
A '32 Ford roadster with convertible top, or a '32 coupe (much more costly) both look invitingly simple in comparison, and while they lack the sophistication of a Corvette, they are just as much or more fun (Try driving one even a short distance!).
So, here's the question: if you buy a low mileage older car that uses relatively standard wear parts, how reliable is it if you attempt to use it for secondary daily driver use? (i.e. does not need to be 100% available to commute to work every day, but should not require weeks of downtime waiting for parts)
Jim G
I bought my (second) C4 at the end of last May, a 1992 convertible with just 9,400 miles on it.
In buying it, I figured that because of the low miles, it should drive "like a new car", and most mechanical moving metal wear parts (like piston rings, water pump, alternator) would be "like new". That has turned out to be the case. No issues, and no replacements required. Even the FX3 suspension works fine. So does the Bose sound system.
But, I also thought that perhaps after 21 years, even though the car had obviously been stored indoors most of the time, I could expect problems with parts that degrade with time, like serpentine belt, tires, and weather seals, and with electrical connections that corrode given enough time, especially during humid periods. And I figured that any places that don't normally require frequent lubrication might finally require some after 2 decades simply because the original lubricant degrades or gets washed out by rain or car washes after a long enough time.
The tires, belt, and weatherseals have turned out to be non-problems. The previous owner kept replacing the tires and belt over the years (my tires for example were about 2 years old when I got the car, and had an estimated 95% tread). And, he must have, like me, treated the weather seals regularly, because they are impressively good after 21 years.
Two electrical connection issues did arise. The wipers would turn on but then not turn off until the key was turned off (fun on a freeway). That simply required cleaning all the terminal connections to the wiper motor assembly, and applying dielectric grease to help inhibit future corrosion. It isn't surprising that this occurred with the wiper motor assembly, as its necessary location naturally exposes it to water. A second electrical issue manifested as the automatic temperature control one hot day suddenly blowing hot air versus cold. The mechanic who troubleshooted it for me in a little over an hour said the cause was a corroded connection on a relay that caused the relay to overheat and fail, without blowing a fuse (the current never got high enough to blow the fuse, but the heat was evidently sufficient to break the already bad electrical connection right at the relay itself). So far, these have been the only two electrical connection issues.
The only lubrication issues I have experienced have been with the hood, door hinges, and door locks. The hood was pretty stiff to open until I lubricated the cable ends, the hood pins, the pin latches, and the hood pin sockets. Now it's very easy to open. The driver door squeaked when opened until I lubricated the hinges. Both the driver door and the passenger door locks needed silicone lubricant to make them less stiff - the passenger one especially, presumably because it got less "exercising" than the driver side, as the previous owner averaged an almost identically steady 450 miles per year (per the Carfax report ).
But that's all I've encountered that I can recall, over the past 7 months of ownership. I view that as somewhat of a miracle, as we all know that GM in the early 1990s was not known for its quality.
This has encouraged me to think that maybe older cars CAN be reliable, provided that they don't already have a ton of miles on them. That leads me back to a backburnered dream of someday buying an older but low mileage 32 Ford roadster or coupe. I dot mean an "original" 32, but rather a "32" "toy" built maybe a decade or 2 ago, using a modern Chevy crate engine, fiberglass body, and aftermarket frame and used very little.
These '32 toys cost a surprising LOT to build - like $45k to $55k for a modest one, because there are no production economies of scale and because standardization of "modern" '32 parts is still just an unrealized dream, so these cars are built with ridiculously costly unique parts (e.g. the radiator shell) that have to be "fitted" to each other.
They also tend to depreciate a lot right away because the market for unique cars with decades old ergonomics and lack of features is narrow. That's why I want to buy a used one that someone else has already taken the depreciation hit on.
But, I wonder, how reliable would one be, if I use it as a secondary daily driver. My wife and I have a "practical" mini-SUV for family use and practical outings, but I crave a real toy that is durable enough and simple enough that I can keep improving and personalizing over a couple of decades, without the required wear parts becoming "obsolete". I had hoped that the '92 would fulfill that role, but as I learn more about its underpinnings (e.g. Optispark, spark plug wire replacement, suspension, weather seal replacement effort), I realize the C4 is not simple at all, and I also see that many parts are already either unavailable or very costly.
A '32 Ford roadster with convertible top, or a '32 coupe (much more costly) both look invitingly simple in comparison, and while they lack the sophistication of a Corvette, they are just as much or more fun (Try driving one even a short distance!).
So, here's the question: if you buy a low mileage older car that uses relatively standard wear parts, how reliable is it if you attempt to use it for secondary daily driver use? (i.e. does not need to be 100% available to commute to work every day, but should not require weeks of downtime waiting for parts)
Jim G
12-22-2013, 11:42 AM
#3
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: altered state
Posts: 81,242
Received 3,043 Likes
on
2,602 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05
If youre referring to an older hot rod usually the bugs have been worked out in the first 1000 mi. Unless its been worn out since shouldnt be an issue. They can be just as reliable as anything else. so far my carbed car has never not started.
12-22-2013, 11:54 AM
#5
Safety Car
I think as long as the body parts are in good condition, not falling apart and need replacement, the rest of the drive train should be no big problem.
As long as the body is stock looking, and takes standard bolt on parts those parts should be available on the net.
It's when the part was hand made like a windshield for a car with a chopped top, that you would run into trouble with.
What I would be interested in finding out is, if the car was built for using this new junk fuel that we all have to use these days.
Now days even that 1970 car you like so much needs work to run this new fuel, the rubber gas lines and the neoprene needle and seat in the carb, don't like this new stuff that we are paying 350+ a gallon for.
As long as the body is stock looking, and takes standard bolt on parts those parts should be available on the net.
It's when the part was hand made like a windshield for a car with a chopped top, that you would run into trouble with.
What I would be interested in finding out is, if the car was built for using this new junk fuel that we all have to use these days.
Now days even that 1970 car you like so much needs work to run this new fuel, the rubber gas lines and the neoprene needle and seat in the carb, don't like this new stuff that we are paying 350+ a gallon for.
12-22-2013, 11:59 AM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
I think as long as the body parts are in good condition, not falling apart and need replacement, the rest of the drive train should be no big problem.
As long as the body is stock looking, and takes standard bolt on parts those parts should be available on the net.
It's when the part was hand made like a windshield for a car with a chopped top, that you would run into trouble with.
What I would be interested in finding out is, if the car was built for using this new junk fuel that we all have to use these days.
Now days even that 1970 car you like so much needs work to run this new fuel, the rubber gas lines and the neoprene needle and seat in the carb, don't like this new stuff that we are paying 350+ a gallon for.
As long as the body is stock looking, and takes standard bolt on parts those parts should be available on the net.
It's when the part was hand made like a windshield for a car with a chopped top, that you would run into trouble with.
What I would be interested in finding out is, if the car was built for using this new junk fuel that we all have to use these days.
Now days even that 1970 car you like so much needs work to run this new fuel, the rubber gas lines and the neoprene needle and seat in the carb, don't like this new stuff that we are paying 350+ a gallon for.
Jim G
12-22-2013, 01:03 PM
#7
I have a 96' LT1 with the 3.07 rear that I used for years exclusively for long trips. Here in the Midwest the roads are so flat that at 70mph I hold a good 30mpg. My wife and I have never even questioned it's reliability. The car has never let us down and works flawlessly every time we use it. This year I finally bought a Subaru that gets 33mpg so the vette is no longer used exclusively for trips. Chances are this will be the end for it because I believe in use it or lose it. So this past spring I totally rebuilt the suspension, brakes, exhaust, tires, weather stripping, and any other wear part on the car except the engine and transmission. After 18 years of trouble free service I felt I owed it at least this. I'm positive it is ready for another 18 year run and would at any time drive from one side of the country to the other without ever considering it letting me down. Keep up with maintenance and these cars are good for 200K to 250K miles. I have got to say that I have never owned or know of any other vehicle that I would consider its equal when it comes to this. The C4's get a bad rap vette wise but I would lay down good money that 50 years from now they will still be on the roads and the others will not. Just say'in.
Last edited by Klyde; 12-22-2013 at 01:07 PM.
12-22-2013, 03:22 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2008
Location: Cherokee National Forest TN
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 0
Received 102 Likes
on
92 Posts
Its not like the old days when a 32 hot rod ran on a stock front axle & maybe a 48 Ford rear end both with drum brakes. Most of the cars built in the last 10-20 years have fully boxed frames with late model rear ends, aftermarket dropped front axles & disc brakes on 4 corners or complete aftermarket chassis such as TCI for one. Many newer builds have the desired LS engines with FI, AC & late model automatic transmissions.
Basically a good car will have all late model running gear (probably newer than your current Vette) & only look like a 32 Ford because that is the body style selected for the build.
You can pretty much determine how a car is constructed just by looking at it closely. Attention to detail is the key, nicely run wire looms & brake lines, painted chassis, professional interior. etc.
The fun factor increases 10 fold if you like "rat rods". If so forget everything I said about a street rod
Here is a fun car site, bunch of us old guys running motor oil instead of blood through our veins.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/
Luck with your quest.
Basically a good car will have all late model running gear (probably newer than your current Vette) & only look like a 32 Ford because that is the body style selected for the build.
You can pretty much determine how a car is constructed just by looking at it closely. Attention to detail is the key, nicely run wire looms & brake lines, painted chassis, professional interior. etc.
The fun factor increases 10 fold if you like "rat rods". If so forget everything I said about a street rod
Here is a fun car site, bunch of us old guys running motor oil instead of blood through our veins.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/
Luck with your quest.
12-22-2013, 07:07 PM
#9
Its not like the old days when a 32 hot rod ran on a stock front axle & maybe a 48 Ford rear end both with drum brakes. Most of the cars built in the last 10-20 years have fully boxed frames with late model rear ends, aftermarket dropped front axles & disc brakes on 4 corners or complete aftermarket chassis such as TCI for one. Many newer builds have the desired LS engines with FI, AC & late model automatic transmissions.
Basically a good car will have all late model running gear (probably newer than your current Vette) & only look like a 32 Ford because that is the body style selected for the build.
You can pretty much determine how a car is constructed just by looking at it closely. Attention to detail is the key, nicely run wire looms & brake lines, painted chassis, professional interior. etc.
The fun factor increases 10 fold if you like "rat rods". If so forget everything I said about a street rod
Here is a fun car site, bunch of us old guys running motor oil instead of blood through our veins.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/
Luck with your quest.
Basically a good car will have all late model running gear (probably newer than your current Vette) & only look like a 32 Ford because that is the body style selected for the build.
You can pretty much determine how a car is constructed just by looking at it closely. Attention to detail is the key, nicely run wire looms & brake lines, painted chassis, professional interior. etc.
The fun factor increases 10 fold if you like "rat rods". If so forget everything I said about a street rod
Here is a fun car site, bunch of us old guys running motor oil instead of blood through our veins.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/
Luck with your quest.
12-22-2013, 09:02 PM
#10
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Posts: 20,161
Received 639 Likes
on
443 Posts
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
Ten years ago Our 86e was torn down and rebuilt. Everything except the rear end and engine. All switches and systems were pulled apart. Cleaned and lubed everything imaginable. At that time the car had 102K on it. Since then we've accumulated another 45K with various vacation trips to Las Vegas, Flagstaff, Mt Rushmore, Bonneville, Eugene and countless other weekends. Only time we had a break down was loosing the A/C last July when the temps went well over 100 degrees.
IMHO Reliability is based directly on how properly one maintains and repairs. And planning those repairs with the cars age and fragility in mind.
IMHO Reliability is based directly on how properly one maintains and repairs. And planning those repairs with the cars age and fragility in mind.
12-22-2013, 09:25 PM
#11
Instructor
AHH yes another reliability thread. I have posted on this same topic myself. My 94 six speed coupe is as reliable as any other thing I have. No check engine lights, no misses and with just two revolutions of the starter it busts right off. Sure some things need attention, but it is 20 years old now. I remember reading somewhere on here in a difference of the engine wiring harnesses between certain years. After some year the wiring was changed and it was not as brittle and lasts a lot longer?? Something like that, maybe someone will chime in who knows this topic and will shed the light one more time.
Cessnaguy
Cessnaguy
12-22-2013, 09:32 PM
#13
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Posts: 20,161
Received 639 Likes
on
443 Posts
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
After reading about this as Noob here, the inspection and repair of the insulation was the first "mod".
12-22-2013, 10:34 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Jim G,
I stumbled across this thread while looking for info on some C4 seats I'm refurbishing for my 1963 Corvette. I've had it since 1978 and it was my daily driver for the first 15 years I owned it. I have also had a replica 1965 Shelby Cobra for about ten years. I mention this because it gives me a slightly different perspective than the C4 drivers who have been expressing their thoughts. Here are my opinions based on my experience.
1. Older cars and hotrods are not as reliable as boring new cars because car design and construction methods for new cars are simply better now than they were 30-40 years ago. You will not find an old car or hotrod that is as reliable as a new Honda Accord.
2. You can maintain a body-on-frame design car as long as the frame is structurally sound and replacement parts can be found. And the money you save on depreciation will far more than offset the cost of periodic maintenance.
3. As a car ages, it gets harder to find mechanics who know how to fix it. Its best if you do most of the work yourself. With the vast information available on the Internet, anyone with a bit of mechanical sense and a place to work can do most of the work. But this will sometimes mean the car will be out of commission for more than a few days.
4. Parts on older cars will fail whether you use them or not. Insulation on wiring deteriorates over time. Rubber parts dry rot. Unused seals dry out and start to leak. If you keep a car long enough, it will require time, money and effort to keep it running.
5. Older cars are not as safe as new cars. (My Corvette doesn't even have shoulder harnesses.) Manufacturers are constantly adding new safety features and over time the changes are profound.
Lastly, one of the biggest challenges faced by all fans of old cars is project creep. One day you'll decide that the car gets too much attention to keep that old parking lot scarred paint job. But as new paint makes everything else look worse by comparison, you'll be buying new wheels, new interior, upgraded engine, etc. That will take the car out of commission for a year or more and cost three times as much as your best estimate. You'll end up with a show car that looks too good to serve as a daily driver. .... So, think long and hard before you decide to make a hotrod your daily driver. It can be the best thing you ever do, or the worst.
I stumbled across this thread while looking for info on some C4 seats I'm refurbishing for my 1963 Corvette. I've had it since 1978 and it was my daily driver for the first 15 years I owned it. I have also had a replica 1965 Shelby Cobra for about ten years. I mention this because it gives me a slightly different perspective than the C4 drivers who have been expressing their thoughts. Here are my opinions based on my experience.
1. Older cars and hotrods are not as reliable as boring new cars because car design and construction methods for new cars are simply better now than they were 30-40 years ago. You will not find an old car or hotrod that is as reliable as a new Honda Accord.
2. You can maintain a body-on-frame design car as long as the frame is structurally sound and replacement parts can be found. And the money you save on depreciation will far more than offset the cost of periodic maintenance.
3. As a car ages, it gets harder to find mechanics who know how to fix it. Its best if you do most of the work yourself. With the vast information available on the Internet, anyone with a bit of mechanical sense and a place to work can do most of the work. But this will sometimes mean the car will be out of commission for more than a few days.
4. Parts on older cars will fail whether you use them or not. Insulation on wiring deteriorates over time. Rubber parts dry rot. Unused seals dry out and start to leak. If you keep a car long enough, it will require time, money and effort to keep it running.
5. Older cars are not as safe as new cars. (My Corvette doesn't even have shoulder harnesses.) Manufacturers are constantly adding new safety features and over time the changes are profound.
Lastly, one of the biggest challenges faced by all fans of old cars is project creep. One day you'll decide that the car gets too much attention to keep that old parking lot scarred paint job. But as new paint makes everything else look worse by comparison, you'll be buying new wheels, new interior, upgraded engine, etc. That will take the car out of commission for a year or more and cost three times as much as your best estimate. You'll end up with a show car that looks too good to serve as a daily driver. .... So, think long and hard before you decide to make a hotrod your daily driver. It can be the best thing you ever do, or the worst.
12-22-2013, 10:56 PM
#16
Racer
Thread Starter
Jim G,
I stumbled across this thread while looking for info on some C4 seats I'm refurbishing for my 1963 Corvette. I've had it since 1978 and it was my daily driver for the first 15 years I owned it. I have also had a replica 1965 Shelby Cobra for about ten years. I mention this because it gives me a slightly different perspective than the C4 drivers who have been expressing their thoughts. Here are my opinions based on my experience.
1. Older cars and hotrods are not as reliable as boring new cars because car design and construction methods for new cars are simply better now than they were 30-40 years ago. You will not find an old car or hotrod that is as reliable as a new Honda Accord.
2. You can maintain a body-on-frame design car as long as the frame is structurally sound and replacement parts can be found. And the money you save on depreciation will far more than offset the cost of periodic maintenance.
3. As a car ages, it gets harder to find mechanics who know how to fix it. Its best if you do most of the work yourself. With the vast information available on the Internet, anyone with a bit of mechanical sense and a place to work can do most of the work. But this will sometimes mean the car will be out of commission for more than a few days.
4. Parts on older cars will fail whether you use them or not. Insulation on wiring deteriorates over time. Rubber parts dry rot. Unused seals dry out and start to leak. If you keep a car long enough, it will require time, money and effort to keep it running.
5. Older cars are not as safe as new cars. (My Corvette doesn't even have shoulder harnesses.) Manufacturers are constantly adding new safety features and over time the changes are profound.
Lastly, one of the biggest challenges faced by all fans of old cars is project creep. One day you'll decide that the car gets too much attention to keep that old parking lot scarred paint job. But as new paint makes everything else look worse by comparison, you'll be buying new wheels, new interior, upgraded engine, etc. That will take the car out of commission for a year or more and cost three times as much as your best estimate. You'll end up with a show car that looks too good to serve as a daily driver. .... So, think long and hard before you decide to make a hotrod your daily driver. It can be the best thing you ever do, or the worst.
I stumbled across this thread while looking for info on some C4 seats I'm refurbishing for my 1963 Corvette. I've had it since 1978 and it was my daily driver for the first 15 years I owned it. I have also had a replica 1965 Shelby Cobra for about ten years. I mention this because it gives me a slightly different perspective than the C4 drivers who have been expressing their thoughts. Here are my opinions based on my experience.
1. Older cars and hotrods are not as reliable as boring new cars because car design and construction methods for new cars are simply better now than they were 30-40 years ago. You will not find an old car or hotrod that is as reliable as a new Honda Accord.
2. You can maintain a body-on-frame design car as long as the frame is structurally sound and replacement parts can be found. And the money you save on depreciation will far more than offset the cost of periodic maintenance.
3. As a car ages, it gets harder to find mechanics who know how to fix it. Its best if you do most of the work yourself. With the vast information available on the Internet, anyone with a bit of mechanical sense and a place to work can do most of the work. But this will sometimes mean the car will be out of commission for more than a few days.
4. Parts on older cars will fail whether you use them or not. Insulation on wiring deteriorates over time. Rubber parts dry rot. Unused seals dry out and start to leak. If you keep a car long enough, it will require time, money and effort to keep it running.
5. Older cars are not as safe as new cars. (My Corvette doesn't even have shoulder harnesses.) Manufacturers are constantly adding new safety features and over time the changes are profound.
Lastly, one of the biggest challenges faced by all fans of old cars is project creep. One day you'll decide that the car gets too much attention to keep that old parking lot scarred paint job. But as new paint makes everything else look worse by comparison, you'll be buying new wheels, new interior, upgraded engine, etc. That will take the car out of commission for a year or more and cost three times as much as your best estimate. You'll end up with a show car that looks too good to serve as a daily driver. .... So, think long and hard before you decide to make a hotrod your daily driver. It can be the best thing you ever do, or the worst.
Jim G
12-22-2013, 11:19 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Jim G,
I stumbled across this thread while looking for info on some C4 seats I'm refurbishing for my 1963 Corvette. I've had it since 1978 and it was my daily driver for the first 15 years I owned it. I have also had a replica 1965 Shelby Cobra for about ten years. I mention this because it gives me a slightly different perspective than the C4 drivers who have been expressing their thoughts. Here are my opinions based on my experience.
1. Older cars and hotrods are not as reliable as boring new cars because car design and construction methods for new cars are simply better now than they were 30-40 years ago. You will not find an old car or hotrod that is as reliable as a new Honda Accord.
2. You can maintain a body-on-frame design car as long as the frame is structurally sound and replacement parts can be found. And the money you save on depreciation will far more than offset the cost of periodic maintenance.
3. As a car ages, it gets harder to find mechanics who know how to fix it. Its best if you do most of the work yourself. With the vast information available on the Internet, anyone with a bit of mechanical sense and a place to work can do most of the work. But this will sometimes mean the car will be out of commission for more than a few days.
4. Parts on older cars will fail whether you use them or not. Insulation on wiring deteriorates over time. Rubber parts dry rot. Unused seals dry out and start to leak. If you keep a car long enough, it will require time, money and effort to keep it running.
5. Older cars are not as safe as new cars. (My Corvette doesn't even have shoulder harnesses.) Manufacturers are constantly adding new safety features and over time the changes are profound.
Lastly, one of the biggest challenges faced by all fans of old cars is project creep. One day you'll decide that the car gets too much attention to keep that old parking lot scarred paint job. But as new paint makes everything else look worse by comparison, you'll be buying new wheels, new interior, upgraded engine, etc. That will take the car out of commission for a year or more and cost three times as much as your best estimate. You'll end up with a show car that looks too good to serve as a daily driver. .... So, think long and hard before you decide to make a hotrod your daily driver. It can be the best thing you ever do, or the worst.
I stumbled across this thread while looking for info on some C4 seats I'm refurbishing for my 1963 Corvette. I've had it since 1978 and it was my daily driver for the first 15 years I owned it. I have also had a replica 1965 Shelby Cobra for about ten years. I mention this because it gives me a slightly different perspective than the C4 drivers who have been expressing their thoughts. Here are my opinions based on my experience.
1. Older cars and hotrods are not as reliable as boring new cars because car design and construction methods for new cars are simply better now than they were 30-40 years ago. You will not find an old car or hotrod that is as reliable as a new Honda Accord.
2. You can maintain a body-on-frame design car as long as the frame is structurally sound and replacement parts can be found. And the money you save on depreciation will far more than offset the cost of periodic maintenance.
3. As a car ages, it gets harder to find mechanics who know how to fix it. Its best if you do most of the work yourself. With the vast information available on the Internet, anyone with a bit of mechanical sense and a place to work can do most of the work. But this will sometimes mean the car will be out of commission for more than a few days.
4. Parts on older cars will fail whether you use them or not. Insulation on wiring deteriorates over time. Rubber parts dry rot. Unused seals dry out and start to leak. If you keep a car long enough, it will require time, money and effort to keep it running.
5. Older cars are not as safe as new cars. (My Corvette doesn't even have shoulder harnesses.) Manufacturers are constantly adding new safety features and over time the changes are profound.
Lastly, one of the biggest challenges faced by all fans of old cars is project creep. One day you'll decide that the car gets too much attention to keep that old parking lot scarred paint job. But as new paint makes everything else look worse by comparison, you'll be buying new wheels, new interior, upgraded engine, etc. That will take the car out of commission for a year or more and cost three times as much as your best estimate. You'll end up with a show car that looks too good to serve as a daily driver. .... So, think long and hard before you decide to make a hotrod your daily driver. It can be the best thing you ever do, or the worst.
My car is in no way a trailer queen but the more i fix it the more I worry about it.
12-22-2013, 11:28 PM
#18
Race Director
OK let me weigh in on this. Any old street rod or hot rod can be reliable if and that's a big if it's built to be reliable. Cars that are slapped together with worn junk yard parts are not going to be as relaible as cars built with new and rebuilt parts. Also it depends on what you're building. If you want a cutting edge rod with lots of unique 1 of parts and all the latest "trick" aftermarket parts when something does go wrong on a Sunday afternoon 200 miles from home you're not going to the local NAPA store for parts to get home. If the car is put together with tried and true OEM type parts it can be very reliable. I have put almost 30K miles on a street rod and '55 Nomad and driven over 1200 miles on a trip with the family and loads of luggage with no issues. Now neither of these cars are put together with exotice parts. Small block chevy engines, GM automatic transmissions, GM 10 bolt leaf spring rears, GM disc brakes, Vintage air, new radiators. Oh and modern high performance 17" and larger wheels and tires. Nothing exotic. Now I wouldn't want to drive any old car in bad weather especially snow (that's what modern front wheel drive cars are for). As far as worry free driving goes it can be if you build it to be.
12-22-2013, 11:47 PM
#19
Safety Car
I come at this from a slightly different perspective...
I bought my Z07 NEW in 1991 (well, actually I bought it in 1990, but it was delivered Jan 22, 1991). Once the warranty was up, I've maintained the car myself ever since.
I built a race motor for it in 1996/1997, as I didn't want to screw with the stock motor. I installed it with just over 45k miles on the odometer.
The car now has nearly 90k...I've JUST had to replace a front seal, the rear end seals and the clutch. After nearly 90k miles, the original rear seals (2 of 3) gave up. The stock rubber bushings were shot when the new motor went in...so urethane versions replaced them @ 45k miles.
I've done nothing to the car but regular maintenance since the race motor went in...so wear & tear really depends on WHO owned it and what their mechanical skills were like. All I've done to it is gas, oil, plugs & wires, etc. since 1997.
Runs like a scalded ape...still, after all this time...even after flogging it at autocrosses and road courses.
I bought my Z07 NEW in 1991 (well, actually I bought it in 1990, but it was delivered Jan 22, 1991). Once the warranty was up, I've maintained the car myself ever since.
I built a race motor for it in 1996/1997, as I didn't want to screw with the stock motor. I installed it with just over 45k miles on the odometer.
The car now has nearly 90k...I've JUST had to replace a front seal, the rear end seals and the clutch. After nearly 90k miles, the original rear seals (2 of 3) gave up. The stock rubber bushings were shot when the new motor went in...so urethane versions replaced them @ 45k miles.
I've done nothing to the car but regular maintenance since the race motor went in...so wear & tear really depends on WHO owned it and what their mechanical skills were like. All I've done to it is gas, oil, plugs & wires, etc. since 1997.
Runs like a scalded ape...still, after all this time...even after flogging it at autocrosses and road courses.
Last edited by 1991Z07; 12-22-2013 at 11:51 PM.
12-23-2013, 01:18 AM
#20
Safety Car
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,783
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
11 Posts
From what I've observed on my daily driven 91 with over 135k, the engine is very reliable but, the paint isn't!...
Rock chips and debris, take there toll on the hood and front bumper on a daily driven C4 Vette! I've repainted the entire front end of my vette and less than four years later, the front bumper and hood are pitted with nicks and chips again!... I even installed a mini mask, which made it worse!
.
Rock chips and debris, take there toll on the hood and front bumper on a daily driven C4 Vette! I've repainted the entire front end of my vette and less than four years later, the front bumper and hood are pitted with nicks and chips again!... I even installed a mini mask, which made it worse!
.
Last edited by GKK; 12-23-2013 at 01:21 AM.