Snakecharmer383

So I had the day off finally and thought I would clean the car some as it was pretty dirty getting it back from the garage. My father came by and was wiping the door jam on the passenger side and hit the alarm plunger and didn't know it. Well he shut the door (not locked) and then when opened the horn started honking. Since I didn't remember how to disarm it I ran inside to the house to get the book. Well daddy tried to start the car while the horn was beeping. So I come out and put the key in the drivers side door and lock and then unlock it with door shut and the horn stops. So after finishing wiping the car down I get into to start it and nothing. There is a loud grinding noise what seems to be coming from the starter. I had to push the car into the garage then. The security light is flashing currently and not on solid. I have read the book a gazillion times now and still am lost on what I need to do. Did something go wrong with starter? Is the alarm still armed? I hate to think If I would have been somewhere and be stranded!!! I even disconnected battery and waited then hooked it up again and still the same thing! Looking at the passenger door it looks like the plunger thing on door is still in further then the driver's side door....I put the key in here and locked and unlocked this and nothing...I'm at a loss

skateparkdave

Make sure that door switch is operational then try disconnecting your neg. battery post for at least 30 seconds. This will clear any codes and reset. Now if your door pin switch is stuck, you'll still be at square one until thats fixed.

The Green Hornet

When the security system is armed, the light is on constant.

AGENT 86

The alarm has nothing to do with starting, it just makes noise. VATS will kill cranking and injection.
Is the starter loose ??

Snakecharmer383

I tried the disconnecting the battery terminal, didn't help.

The security light is flashing.

I did just have work done to car but before this alarm event there was no issues with starting or driving the car. I had a new clutch/flywheel and shifter put in so the starter would have been off the car. Wondering if a shim moved or fell out now. 75 miles on the car since getting it back.

I'm still confused on the door plunger as it looks like it is in further then the driver's side door.

Would trying to start the car while the alarm is going off fubared something else??

ch@0s

sounds like you killed your batt.. when they are really low the starter can make a grinding noise (like a fast tapping noise).

skateparkdave

Until the door is shut.

I really think your problem is in that door switch. You say your father "hit" it and it seems stuck half way in. That switch tells the VATS if door is open or closed regardless if the VATS is armed or not.

Chaos may be onto something. If your doors were open for a while while you cleaned, then the alarm got set off, your battery may be low.

Also, make sure your park nuetral switch is not seeing shifter in gear. But I guess if that was it you'd hear nothing. Sounds more like a low battery.

If your security light is flashing, it is not armed but waiting to be armed by you locking the door. Then it would stay constant until door is shut. Then it goes black while armed unless someone pulls door handle.

Charge your battery and see what happens.

AGENT 86

Once again, VATS has nothing to do with the door switches, it's only looking for the correct resistance from the key's pellet.
The Forced Entry Alarm module uses the door switches, and it only honks the horn.

skateparkdave

I'm sure you know the 84 better than I Dan but on my 90 the alarm is activated by turning key off and either locking the door inside with switch and closing door or getting out and locking the door with the key. Or just locking doors with door key.
Putting the key in door and turning also deactivates it if it is accidently set off.

Like when I locked the door and got out with the windows down and shut the locked door. Security set. Then I reached through the open window and unlocked the door at the interior switch and opened the door only to set my VATS into a horn honking, no starting frenzy until I used the door key to unlock the door and shut it down. Alarm stopped, car started. Ignition key in ignition did nothing, only using door key in door.

AGENT 86

I'm not nitpicking you Dave, but your arming/disarming the "Forced Entry Alarm", not VATS, they are two different modules that do two different things.
84-85, the Theft Deterrent module was the alarm and it also killed the ability to crank the engine. 86+, the Theft Deterrent system was just a Forced Entry Alarm and VATS was introduced to handle cranking and injection.


http://members.shaw.ca/dankai/Vats%20Electrical.pdf

skateparkdave

Oh I know you're not nit picking. We're just trying to muddle through.

All I know is mine seems tied together. Like I said, once alarm was set off by opening door, the car was useless at the ignition until I turned the door key. So in a sense, I guess if the forced entry alarm is activated by door switch and it in turn activates the VATS (vehicle anti theft system) section that disables ignition in an alarm event then there is definetly a correlation between the two.

AGENT 86

Sorry Dave, I missed the 90 part (thought you had an 89), I think the ECM handles yours, so you may very well be correct, but I'm sure his 89 is just like my 86 and they are 2 different systems.

Snakecharmer383

Good info here.

Pulled starter today and had it tested, they said it was fine and showed the solenoid moving. Looked at door plunger again and I did pull it out some with a needle nose. Plan on putting starter back in, turning key to "on" position for awhile then turning it off waiting and then trying to start it. I will also charge the battery very well. As mentioned I have been thinking that the battery seemed weak while trying to start it but it has been reading 14.1 on the dash.

I will post again when I fig. anything out but do thank those who have posted.

markKlein

[QUOTE=AGENT 86;1571025783]I'm not nitpicking you Dave, but your arming/disarming the "Forced Entry Alarm", not VATS, they are two different modules that do two different things.
84-85, the Theft Deterrent module was the alarm and it also killed the ability to crank the engine. 86+, the Theft Deterrent system was just a Forced Entry Alarm and VATS was introduced to handle cranking and injection.

According to the owners manual, on a 95 the Theft Deterrent System alsodisabled the car fro starting.
"Now, if a door or the hatch is opened without the key or
Passive Keyless Entry system, the alarm will go off.
Your horn will sound for three minutes, then it will go
off to save battery power. And, your vehicle won’t start."

Snakecharmer383

Put starter back in, charged battery and turn ignition to "on" wited....cleaned a wheel...tried to start and nothing again...starter is just louder now telling me that the battery was low but it is still not starting.

If either door is open the light is flashing, when I lock the doors using the power lock the light goes constant. Now with the doors locked and me sitting inside and I manually move the lock to open and open door the alarm (horn) is not sounding. I figure it would at this point from what I have read. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO!

Since the horn was honking and the car was attempted to be turned on what else could have this done???????????

At this point I have ruled out any problems with the plungers on the doors as they are where they should be and NOW I don't believe he hit either of them.

It seems now that I can't even get the system to "arm".

Help Help Help!

markKlein

From what I have read I am not sure you have ruled out the battery. If it is trashed you can charge it all day and not accomplish anything. Try borrowing someones battery and see if it will fire up. (I'm not sure why you turned the key on and waited to try starting it?)

AGENT 86

Did you wait 5 seconds before opening the door with the system, armed ??
Is the pin switch in door hinge pillar, stuck in ??

Does the engine turn over, or just the stater making noise ??

skateparkdave

Lets back up a second. This all started when yout Dad hit and damaged a door pin switch. Not sure but I would imagine if that switch is stuck half way in it's seen as open or closed all the time, one or the other. Either would obviously throw the security system off.

I think you should go back to that switch and pull it and test it if possible. They are grounded when open, un grounded when closed. Thats all they are, a ground.

Snakecharmer383

I have ruled out the pin or plunger on door, dad said he didn't hit that at all. I looked at both and they are both out all the way so I feel that is NOT the problem.

Engine does not turn over, just the starter spinning.

I did wait approx. 30 seconds for the system to arm, didn't matter there was nothing.

I think dad armed the system then opened the door setting off the Forced Entry system alarm, then while that was going off he tried to start and trust me I have no idea why but that in turn caused the ignition cutoff through the VATS system. Now with that being what we believe has happened, how do you correct the VATS problem. I can't believe no one else has ever had this happen to them. Again I don't know WHY he would try to start the car when he did...we both yelled at each other over it and are both past it now.

Called a buddy a GM garage and he just suggested to get it towed down so he can diagnosis there with the proper equipment. Not really want I want to do.

There is no manual reset for either alarm or module?

Only thing for sure at this point I know is with doors open the security light is flashing, using the power lock and locking both doors the light goes constant.

I don't see how the battery could affect the starting, that battery is really charged now and is def. spinning the starter super fast, like it wants to fly away from the car.

Sorry to ramble or moan just super bummed as I just dropped about $4K on the car.

ch@0s

I really don't think it's the alarm.
Did you try to jump it?
you say the starter works but the engine does not turn over.
Could be the flywheel if you had the started checked.
If the started is working the engine should turn over.
Can you make a video of what its doing? We would be able to help more if we could be there.. You know i'm insane?