StealthLT4

I just bought a set of Vette Tech's 4-2-1 LT1 headers (1 3/4") off of eBay, and decided to do a writeup on them. There's not much info on them, or at least not nearly as much as Melrose, SW, EM, etc, so I think this could be useful. I'm replacing a set of damaged Exotic Muscle LT headers, so hopefully I can comment on the performance difference once installed.

eBay link to current auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=150315528211

They are the 1 3/4 versions (they also make 1 5/8 for L98 cars), and come Jet-Hot coated. They have a flange on the headers, but also come with slip-fit connectors that bolt on here. They come with exhaust manifold gaskets and gaskets for the slip-on flange, as well as a full set of bolts and the spacers needed for the random stuff attached here. There is an o2 sensor bung on each side, and it comes with one plug for use on L98s (I think? They only have one o2 sensor, right?). Overall, they look to be pretty good quality, and came packaged VERY well. Took them a while to ship, but I wasn't in a hurry, so that wasn't a factor for me. But it may be for you.

Just like the linked eBay auction, I paid $687.50 shipped for them, which is a pretty good deal in the world of quality LT LT-1 headers. Anyway, here are a bunch of pics of what I got. I'll be sure to update when I get around to installing them, which hopefully will be soon!

shakedown067

Wow, those sure are purdy. I look forward to seeing the install and results!

Klondike

I hate wrestling with and having to modify/adapt stuff that doesn't fit. Please let us all know how the install goes and what you hookup behind them. I have an LT4 as well and really want to know what works and what is a PIA before I start a project like that.
I like the "Tri-Y" style of headers anyway.(Had some on my old Mustang) I think they work best on a street driven car and deliver great torque.

mnstrlt1

i like the idea of tri-y's. Didn't these sell for like $450 when they first hit the scene? Regardless, they look pretty nice but the collector has an unusual merge inside it? (inside the piping right being the collector flange).

Keep us posted on performance (wish you had the EM's dyno'ed so we could see a solid difference).


********edit**********
I don't believe the weld quality is on par with the well established vendors. I would grind down the "inside" welds (that connect to the heads).

pologreen1

nice !! what was wrong with the old ones? are you selling them ?

Muffin

Overall they look very good. Please keep us posted on fit.

StealthLT4

Thanks for the responses guys.

Klondike: I have Random-Technology cats and a Corsa cat-back, with slip-fit connectors between the cats and headers. Hopefully these will just slip right on where the EM's come off.

mnstrlt1: That little piece inside the collector helps with the merging of the exhaust pulses. I forget what it's called, but I thought the same thing as you initially. After a bit of research, I found out it's there for a reason. I also agree with the welds; I don't have a grinder, but if those welds make the opening smaller than the ports on the heads, I'll take it somewhere to have it done.

pologreen: I had a little fender-bender a while ago, and as a result the entire passenger-side of the exhaust got pushed forwards, kinking the header so that it rattles against the chassis. It wasn't detrimental, but it's slowly gotten worse, so that all you hear when the engine is under load is a LOUD rattle. So the driver's side is for sale, if you're interested

One other strange thing about these headers, at least with regards to other manufacturers, is that the primary tubes are bent into rectangles as they approach the head. The ports are this shape, so I guess it's a good idea, in order to reduce the lip as the gases exit the head. Too bad my brand-new Stage-8 locking bolts probably won't work due to this

I didn't mention this earlier, but I'll also be removing the AIR system with these headers, so I might snap a few pics of the blockoff plate I make. Snagged a piece of 1/4" aluminum from the machine shop at school before I left, so that should work nicely. Hopefully I can find something to cut it with

On another note, does anyone know if the exhaust ports on the LT4 are different than the LT1? Do I need gaskets different than the ones provided?

RedDwarf

I went and looked at the link..that thing in the collector looks like a pretty large restriction? It has to be mounted into the collector somehow and looks like it is actually bigger the further into the pipe you look.Can you verify that?

BrianCunningham

tri-y's =

StealthLT4

If you search for "Vette Tech" in subjects, one other thread of use pops up about these. Here's some info I copied from over there:

"once the gasses enter the collector, the "pickle" as he called it kept things moving. Remember that as tri-Y's, the pulses are coming thru differently than standard long tubes. It all is a design to keep things moving. As the gasses get thru the collector and enter the expander, the shape of the expander acts as a venturi to help pull the gasses out to the collector. I haven't finalised how I'm gonna do it, but I will either get a custom 3" Y made to run to the convertor, or use the flowmaster reducers like these to go into a Y then the convertor."





"The pickle is in the center of a venturi created by the flanged "neck down" , for a reason.

The expansion to the 3" pipe likely completes the body, and I suspect messing with that geometry will affect the velocity, and
that consequence is unacceptable."

Excerpt from a response from the guy who makes them. This is in response to the observation that the header necks down to 2.5" at the flange, then expands up to 3" with the bolt-on fitting
"There is a venturi affect there at the collector."

There were also some issues I read about with clearance with the passenger side upper control arm as well as the driver's side hitting the floorpan with the flanged venturi bolted on. But these were about a year ago, and should be fixed by now.

Also, people with this problem contacted Brian (the builder), and he made things right with everyone I read about. So hopefully if he was aware of the issue that long ago, he has fixed things with the production versions by now. And if he hasn't, I can send them in to be fixed, or just do it myself.

Here's one home-remedy for the control arm issue. Nylon block and a hammer, amounting to a 3/8" clearance.

StealthLT4

After a lot more reading, some more info:

The driver's side header will hit the floorboard with the 2.5" -> 3" expander bolted on. This completes the venturi, and is part of the design. This had been remedied by having an exhaust shop modify the expander so that it curves inward while expanding to 3". The biggest issue with this is cat placement, as normal placement for cats with 4-1 LT headers is in front of this point. Hopefully I'll still have room for cats after the headers, and in front of the Corsa resonator. In any case, I'll have to drive to an exhaust shop with open headers to have them fab up the headers to my Corsa. Hopefully all works well.

cv67

Bumer...I have yet to see a set of headers fit perfect without having to move or dimple something.

A good tip for others such as above. Take a towel and double it over, a large socket (over 1" youd use to get the wheel bearing nut off is good)and a BFH. Lay the header on a slightly cushioned surface.

Lay the towel over the area to be whacked and the large socket on its side where the dimple should start (not the middle). Hit it from a not quite straight angle, progressively move down and it will slightly flatten the area rather than smashing it. Looks clean when done.

StealthLT4

Thanks for the tip on getting some clearance. Something similar was explained in the other thread, but not very well, and I didn't follow the process completely.

Hopefully, worst-case scenario, I install the pass side, mark it, dent it using above method, re-install, drive to muffler shop with friend in SUV with Corsa following, and have them connect the pieces.

mnstrlt1

stealthLT4- thanks a lot for posting this and allowing the forum members to learn about an alternative header....

I am fully aware of what a "merge collector" is designed to do, but that particular one is not "necessarily" designed right...

http://www.burnsstainless.com/MergeC...ollectors.html

Keep in mind, i don't claim to be an expert nor am i posting to offend you. I just want to provide the information for the forum members.

"Burns" is not cheap, but they definately make a nice merge collector.

as stated by REdDwarf, those do look a little restrictive.

******edit***********
regardless, we're not shooting for "every last horsepower", so I am sure the two would have minimal end-result differences.

StealthLT4

Hey, no offense taken. I'm was just conveying what I had read about "the pickle." I thought these headers were a great idea, so I'm simply trying to get the truth out there about them, so people can make educated choices on headers.

At this point, it looks like these will make the best power for the street, but require some work to get them on. Denting pipes, bending expanders, grinding down welds inside the pipes. Hopefully it's all worth it!

STEVEN13

Hi,

I have these headers on my 1992. Search Tri-Y and you will get a long thread. By the looks of the photos-Brian has addressed most or all of the issues.

The drivers side (in my case) went in (from the top) without any issues.
The pass/side had issues with the A-Arm. However, in my case I have about -1.5 camber and this brings the a-arm closer to the header. This side went in from the bottom.

I did not have to grind any welds inside the pipes.

I also have dyno runs before and after (refer to older thread)

These headers are a great value and made with some thick steel and tubes.

Good luck and let us know how you make out!
Steve

95wht6spd

pickle = reverse TB airfoil. lol

GREGGPENN

Here is the most complete thread on these headers.

I purchased them too -- though not yet installed. Regardless of the header, I have mixed feelings on this product -- but mostly due to the seller.

After supposedly making these for umpteen years, Vette-Tech's Tri-Y headers "were finally available to the public". But, if you read through the link I provided, you will see lots of fitment issues. You will see STEVEN13 was still pissed after repair was complete. One bolt wouldn't go in w/o interference and a weld repair was not completed for him. You will see we all found fitment issues with the length of the headers and the #2 primary tube.

When fitment issues arose, I contacted Brian Geraci personally to inform. I did this because I was the first consumer to post about these header in this forum. I asked if I could present the issue to our forum -- hoping people would measure/check for the issue. After all, it's a PITA to put your car up and remove manifold BEFORE you know there's an issue. Then you'd have to wait for round-trip repair before install. And, Brian averages about 8 wks for that!

Brian said no. He said to let anyone disatisfied contact him individually.

Another issue: after he pointed out to me that the 1 5/8" headers would partially block LTx exhaust ports, I saw eBay ads (like the one linked above) where someone could easily purchase that size for their LTx car. He didn't care. He ignored my suggestion to clarify his eBay listings.

In my personal dealings trying to get mine issues resolved, I met with many obstacles. My intent was similar to the OP here -- in trying to promote a new solution. (Certainly, I feel the Tri-Y config has extreme merit for the street. As do, the kook's-style collectors which boost low-rpm boost and flatten the torque curve). Though Brian seemed to appreciate my help in promoting, the efforts for resolving my set went "south". He stopped responding and I had to ask for a return before communications began again.

Brian also claims to be a long-time, huge NASCAR tech. And, again, that these headers are a result of his efforts in the biz. But, when pressed for a recommendation of header sizing/collector length, etc... he replied that "he was in no position to recommend header sizing for a customer".

He also said I could keep the first, mal-fitting set, use them, and he would send a corrected set. It sounded like I could keep the first set. I was surprised. I THOUGHT it was a result of my communications (about how his headers were being received/fit). When the corrected set was sent, he demanded the first set back.

(BTW: my communication on his behalf (with this forum) was in lieu of him wanting to participate directly in our forum! Other vendors join and/or pay for the priviledge of selling their products here. He doesn't want to do that.... too busy, you know).

After he demanded the first set back, I said to send a call tag. I said it was HIS responsibility to correct fitment -- that I shouldn't have to pay extra for that. Then things got ugly. He was rude and showed his true colors.

This is the thumb-nail overview of my experience with the owner -- but certainly not with the product. In that regard, I do not have installation complete for feedback.

As noted by other posters, I believe the welds could be smoother. Also, the "fix" to the #2 tube fitment issue was a cut-reweld of that tube. The pics above do not show that "fix". In case you believe it was encorporated into normal production, I asked about that. I asked why mine had a cut/weld vs being bent correctly -- per his promised fix to future buyers. He said the CUT/REWELD would be the fix. (Since I don't see that adjustment in the pics above, I hope the StealthLT4 doesn't have that problem. Remember, too, their should be enough clearance to allow the motor to torque over and still not let the header tube touch the control arm!)

After returning my first set (and paying for return shipping), Geraci said they were installed on another car -- and they fit w/o ANY issue. He said it's too bad I can't measure correctly and that we (in the forum) had so many problems with an unflawed header. (But, that was after he proved he could be a pr!ck.)



On final thought. Everyone else who posted about these in the thread (linked above) installed their own set. They ended up fighting/tinkering until success was achieved. I'm also sure they objected less loudly that I did.

I would have done the same, but, my set will be installed by a shop -- not an exhaust shop either. I will swap heads/cam/intake/headers all at the same time (mods this extensive may be better completed by a pro). With concerns about good fitment, installation charges could escalate -- especially when mechanics charge $80-$100/hr these days. I wanted them to fit right -- the first time. I explained this to Brian, and we discussed a return vs configuring them correctly. He opted for the later. Boy did that go well!

The bottom line is this: I felt a header made, for a specific car, for several years should fit well. Call me a dreamer.

When I bought my set (March '08), the price was less. $525 w/o tubes. Now it looks the the price is going up quite a bit. I'd recommend that future buyers consider the Bassani 4-2-1 option. Contact them and see if it's available w/o smog fittings. Maybe the price is fairly close to Geraci's now.

-------------
Also, for clarification. Square ports are fine/good. Exhaust ports on our cars are D-shapped any (e.g., half round, half square). After comparing 113 heads to LT1 heads, it looks like LT1 heads are .1" higher (compared to bolt holes) than L98s. Also AFR (and other aftermarket heads) can come with ports that are taller. If you purchase these heads for anything other than an L98, be sure to buy the 1.75" set!

And, tell Brian, Gregg sent ya!

StealthLT4

hey Gregg, tell me how you really feel

Thanks for all the info. I'll be sure to take lots of pics during install so everyone will know what problems are fixed and what aren't. I'll count on everything going wrong; it usually does.

GREGGPENN

I would -- if they had more cute little icons for me to choose from!

Hey, Justin. Just for grins, measure your primary tubes and make sure they look like 1 3/4" pipes. The hole cutouts in the flange looks more like the 1 5/8" set I had at first. But, it's hard to tell by the pics.