Sprout

I have a 86 vette and need to charge the system but found I have R-12 in it. Is changing over to R134A hard to do and whats involved in doing so. Finding R-12 I found is not only hard to do but $$$$$$$$$$$$.

petdoc

Hey Sprout, I have a friend that has several cans of R-12....however, I'm sure he knows they are valuable...How many do you need? And what do you want to pay? I'll check with him....Lee

corvette1989bham

If sprout "DOESNT" want the R12, I will give $8 per can if its name brand sealed R12.

C5Jimmy

Don't convert, not worth it! Just keep the existing system free of leaks.

Southern Comfort

I converted my 85 to R134 and I couldnt be happier. All it takes is fitting changes and a good system evac and a good set of gauges because R134 runs at a higher pressure than R12.

My ac will freeze your but off. Why suffer with obsolete materials, its just going to get harder and harder. Why stress over it.

CREWZIN

I changed over a couple years ago. Couldn't be happier. I had to change a couple of the hoses, the accumulator and the compressor. A little expensive but no problems since.

85 500 horse

A few years ago, when it was announced that R12 was not going to be produced anymore, I went out and purchased 10 cases of freon. Last year on ebay, I sold just about everything I had. I sold my cans individually and was able to get $20 a can. That's not too bad considering I paid $3 a can. I should have bought 100 cases and all their 30 lb. canisters. I would have made a fortune.

93LT1

Converted from R12 and it works great! Changed the dryer too.

Redeasysport

There is a product called Freeze 12 that will work in an R-12 system. You should read up on conversion. Anybody can change the fitting and dump 134 in it but guess what it will fail. there are BIG difference between the 2. The conversion process means changing a lot of things to be compatible with 134 including ALL seals and the things mentioned above by some of the guys. I will be looking for Freeze12 myself

CMYC4GO

R-12 gets a little colder than R-134, but the cost (if you can find it) of R-12 is almost prohibitive. It costs about $100 to convert to R-134 with fittings/dryer/vac. I had it done, and couldn't be happier. Eventually, R-12 is going to be virtually non-existent, if not outright outlawed, so why wait to be forced to convert? Convert now. You won't be sorry

Rich Silvestris

R-12 production ceased several years ago. Stockpiles and recycled stuff is all that's left. I had my 87 converted when I bought it in 2000, and I've had no problems with it. (Well, I now have issues with the controller, but that's a different story.) The R134A is fine for cooling. If the R12 went bye-bye, it got out somehow. Maybe you ought to visit a good shop and have the system leak checked before doing anything else. My changeover was part of a condenser replacement.

87 Ragtop

Gordon Kilebrew himself recharged my system with Freeze 12 at Cruise In last year. Just put the stuff right in. Didn't convert anything else. It was pretty much empty of the R-12. It's been blowing cold and running great. I'm going to have him check the charge on it again this year. He only charged me what a couple of cans of the stuff cost so it was pretty inexpensive, maybe $15-20 max. I'm hoping he's got it there again this year

Redeasysport

http://www.freeze12.com/

PsychoNumber1

plus, r-12 is a more efficient refigerant. I'm not saying r-134a isn't good, but it takes less power to run with r-12, which is a good thing right? I doubt it's a noticeable loss though, at least when I did a thermo study on the two the r-12 was more efficient but it wasn't much. "The More You Know"

Hogan

That Freeze12 looks interesting. Does anyone know if you need any special gauges to refill the system??? The gauge I have is from one of those R-134 retrofit kits. Will that gauge work with Freeze12?? And does Freeze12 have any sealants to help out those old seals?

Redeasysport

Check thier website dig around they have a whole kits and oils and sealers. The kit I was looking at was $55 including lube, 3cans of gas, hose and gauge. Gonna wait till it gets hot enough to be able to tell if the AC in mine works well or not hopefully not too long.

snoopdan

The a/c on my 86 went crapola right after I bought it just 3 months ago. This looks right up my alley.

http://64.227.160.178/miva/merchant...._Code=freeze12

Still looks like you need a vacuum pump to do it right per their tech section instructions. But still, not that big of a deal if you have a small shop.


good find!


snoopdan

newbecorvetteguy

Before you panic have you actually priced just having your system serviced with the old r-12? Been hearing the 'cost prohibative' stories for years when the ac when out in my '93 ford. Figured that was the end of ac in that car. Took it to a shop and they repaired the leak and refilled the system with r-12. I think the entire job cost $120. I beleive there's more to changing over than changing the fittings if done properly. I don't think the oil used in the old r-12 system is compatible with 134a. Though it sounds like a lot of people do it that way be aware that it may not be a risk free operation.

SunCr

Gas should be the least of your concerns as most 19 year old systems need a great deal more and finding out why it failed or leaked out is the first step. Then, price what it costs to fix that.

I wouldn't panic over the price of R12 as R134 will probably approach that price by this summer (it's in short supply with most of the discounters charging $12 to $15/lb now and Dupont claims that they are at max capacity and unable to meet world demand). Freeze 12 is primarily R134, is no more compatible with R12 or anything else that is out there and if you use it or any blend, no one will service your system. The good news is that regardless of what you dump in it, you only need 2.25 lbs and even with R12, that shouldn't run more than 50 bucks. A new (or quality rebuild) compressor, drier and orifice is going to run 10X's that and expect to pay another $200 if you need an evaporator or a condensor.

Redeasysport

RECOMMENDED 7 STEP PROCEDURE TO RETROFIT YOUR VEHICLE’S R-12 A/C SYSTEM TO R-134a ________________________________________ ________________________________________ _____ The following procedures are general guidelines. Since A/C systems vary per model and vehicle manufacturer, please consult the vehicle manufacturer, appropriate S.A.E. document J1661, or a trained technician to ensure a successful and complete retrofit. Air conditioning mechanical skills and licensing may be required for installation or when handling refrigerants. Additional parts and equipment may be necessary. For additional guidance, consult a professional. CAUTION: Failure to follow service procedures could result in serious personal injury and/or property damage. 1. Automotive refrigeration system under pressure. Do not attempt any service without protective eyewear. 2. Always be certain to work in a well ventilated area. 3. Do not pressurize R-134a equipment or air conditioning systems with compressed air. Some mixtures of air and R-134a have been shown to be combustible at elevated pressures. 4. Avoid contact with air conditioning refrigerant and lubricant vapor or mist. Exposure may irritate eyes, nose, throat, and/or skin. Insulated gloves are recommended when working with liquid refrigerants. Please refer to warnings and cautions on charge cans included in this kit. STEP 1: VISUAL INSPECTION • Make certain engine is off. • Check for worn, broken or leaking A/C hoses or other obvious leakage points, broken or missing parts and note. • If visual inspection is O.K., proceed to Step 2. STEP 2: PERFORMANCE CHECK: • Make certain engine is off. • It is recommended that the pressures be determined at the high side and low side ports (pressure gauge not included but available at most automotive retail stores) • With engine running, operate A/C system on maximum setting and high blower speed. • Make certain compressor clutch is engaged. • Confirm that the high side and low side pressures are correct (consult vehicle manufacturer). Also confirm that the ducts are blowing cool air. If all is O.K., proceed to step 3. • If the pressure gauge readings are not O.K. or if the system is blowing warm air, attempt to isolate the problem. Listed below are some common areas to check or have checked by a professional: �� Warm air blowing from the duct or fast cycling might indicate low refrigerant, plugged orifice tube or plugged expansion valve. �� Is the compressor belt tight? �� Is condenser/radiator fan working? Is the fan clutch working? �� Is compressor clutch engaged (air gap between pulley and hub face too wide)? Is clutch wire connected? �� Check radiator coolant level. �� Check the condenser (use air to blow out any insects, leaves, dirt or other debris that might restrict air flow). �� Make certain blower fan is working. �� Make certain heater control valve or blend door is in off position when maximum A/C is selected. STEP 3: LEAK CHECK �� With engine and A/C system off, check the system for leaks (electronic leak detector not included in kit). If the system has little or no refrigerant, it will be difficult to perform a proper leak check. Please consult a professional. �� If no system leaks are found, proceed to step 4. �� If leaks are found, take note for later repair and proceed to step 4. STEP 4: RECOVER R-12 REFRIGERANT �� It is unlawful to vent R-12 refrigerant into the atmosphere. Recover R-12 with a conventional recovery/recycling machine according to EPA regulations and S.A.E procedures. This should be done by a licensed professional. �� Once the A/C system has all the R-12 removed, repairs and service can be performed. STEP 5: COMPONENT REPLACEMENT �� It may be necessary to replace certain A/C system components that are not compatible with R-134a. These may include the compressor, lines, O-rings, filters, accumulators, driers, gaskets, and orifice tubes. Consult the vehicle manufacturer.
26059 Castrol Cool Air Kit 1/02
STEP 6: CONVERT SERVICE PORTS �� Remove and discard plastic R-12 valve port caps. �� Thoroughly clean the external valve port threads with a wire brush or A/C port deburring tool. �� All three of the adapters included in our kit may not be required for your vehicle. (Consult with the vehicle manufacturer) �� Remove the schrader valves from both the low and high side ports. �� Carefully screw the new adapter onto the valve port being careful not to cross thread or over tighten the adapter. The pre-applied thread lock adhesive is activated when the threading action takes place. DO NOT OVER-TORQUE THE ADAPTERS ONTO THE VALVE PORTS. �� Inspect the A/C system for any additional valve ports that are unused but need to be capped off. If found, use a disabler cap (not included) with thread lock adhesive of the corresponding port size and cap off. �� If possible, evacuate A/C system at 29" of vacuum for 30 minutes. If the system has been opened to perform repairs or to replace components, this step will be necessary to remove air from the system. STEP 7: CHARGE A/C SYSTEM �� Turn off your vehicle’s engine and A/C system. �� Locate the yellow charging hose included with this kit. Turn the yellow charging hose’s can tap valve handle counter clockwise until it stops. Screw the can tap valve end of the hose onto the threads of a Castrol R-134a Oil Charge for Retrofit can firmly. �� Pull back the sleeve on the other end of the yellow charging hose and attach to low side service port. Push the sleeve forward and make certain that the coupler fits tightly. DO NOT connect a pressurized can to the high pressure side of an A/C system as this can cause the can or hose connection to burst and result in injury. If uncertain of which port is the low side port, consult a trained technician. All charging should be done on the low side of the A/C system. �� Turn on the engine. Set the A/C system to maximum cool setting. �� Turn the can tap valve handle clockwise allowing the piercing needle to puncture the charge can . �� Holding the can upside down, turn the can tap valve handle counterclockwise to begin charging. WARNING: Wear gloves as the charge can can become very cold. Wear protective eyewear whenever working with pressurized containers. �� When charging is complete, close the valve by turning the handle clockwise until stopped. Turn off engine and the A/C system. Pull back the fitting sleeve and remove the hose from the low side port. Take precautions when removing the can tapper from the charge can as contents may still be under pressure. �� Depending on the amount of oil required for the A/C system being retrofitted, repeat Step 7 as needed for the remaining can of Castrol R-134a Oil Charge for Retrofit. Each can of Castrol R-134a Oil Charge for Retrofit contains 4 ounces of oil (and 8 ounces of R-134a) so consult with the vehicle manufacturer for the amount of oil to be added to the A/C system. Depending on the amount of refrigerant required for the A/C system being retrofitted, repeat Step 7 for the remaining 12 ounce can of Johnsen’s R-134a refrigerant included in this kit. Consult with the vehicle manufacturer for the amount of refrigerant to be added to the A/C system. If possible, use pressure gauges to determine if the high and low side system pressures are optimal. �� Operate the A/C system to ensure proper operation. The Castrol R-134a Oil Charge for Retrofit includes a red leak detector dye that will assist you in determining if any leaks exist in your A/C system. �� Fill out the special blue label indicating that this vehicle has been retrofitted to R-134a (see below). Apply this label over any existing R-12 label (usually near radiator/condenser mounting frame). Remove any other existing label indicating R-12 system information. ________________________________________ ________________________________________ ______________________ RETROFIT LABEL INSTRUCTIONS Using a ball point pen, fill in the appropriate information in the blanks on the Retrofit Information Label. Where possible, this label should cover existing R-12 information, taking care not to mask any information not related to R-12. In any event, this label should be placed on a visually accessible part or surface not normally disturbed during service procedures. Any R-12 related information not covered by this label (e.g. refrigerant specification on compressor nameplate or other system components), must be made permanently unreadable (scratched out or removed). The removal of any reference to R-12 is important to ensure future servicing does not contaminate the system through introduction of non-compatible refrigerants or lubricants.