Need some intercooler ideas for big power setup..

[lcvette]

hey guys, If any of you are running some trick Intercooler setup besides the stock ATI unit which i have one here to look at, if ya have some pictures, and some specs on your power levels and temp and pressure drops across them i would be seriously indebted.. just wanna see if any of ya have done something I have not thought of yet and see what results you got from location and size of IC.. any help much appreciated! Chris

[ANTI VENOM]

Chris, do you still plan to use a 355 with approx. 12 psi? If so, we can figure out the required cfm and the efficiency of your turbo at 12psi and the rpm you plan to run, then we can get some basic dimensions of the intercooler. I too am interested in some "creative" designs of intercooler placement on the C4. If you need measurements, my car is tore apart so let me know if I can help. Even though you left me hangin! hehe..

[TONYDEE64]

I think the simplest way is to build the intercooler around the radiator..this allows the blower outlet tube to be short with one turn. Coming out of the intercooler you will have a straight shot at the intake...

Take care,

Tony

[lcvette]

well.. seeing as i have upgraded everything else in the build design..i am htinking of going more boost.. i would like the IC to be able to handle 20PSI even if it takes me a long time to get the car tuned in to handle it, don't wanna skimp at this point, might as well go for the gold! the setup is gonna be on a forged 355 8.8:1 CR motor with Stage 3 ported heads and intake and stock LT4 camshaft.. gonna start with this cam until everything else is dialed in and then might consider upping the duration a little and hiking lift way up. all other goodies will be on the motor IE..rockers, colder tstat.. basically everything you'd think to do to compliment it. as of now, i had 3" intake aluminum tubing for the cold side, but the new turbo's compressor outlet is 3.44" OD and i am not sure if the 3" is gonna work anymore or if i need to go up to 3.5" plumbing.. ideas? and i am guessing this means use of a 3.5" thick IC Core.. throw it all out, lets crunch some numbers there ANTIVENOM!

Chris

[ANTI VENOM]

Hey Chris, I don't know if a 3.5" core will be big enough for your piping or not. It probably will be, but you may need to neck it down abit.

Here are some of my figures (please check with an intercooler specialist, there are tons of variables) disclaimer

Your N/A engine would require 524 CFM at a VE of 85% at 6000rpm
Your boosted airflow would look something like 953 CFM at 12psi and 1237CFM at 20 psi. That would be at 100% compressor efficiency. (I wish) Lets say that your compressors efficiency is 70% at both 12 and 20 psi. Your real world CFM is approx. 800-850@12psi and 1000cfm @20psi. A bell intercooler 3.5x24x8 will flow 850 cfm at 10 psi with 1 psi of loss. I'm just about positive that an intercooler that flows like that would work just fine, but I don't know how to figure the pressure drop at 20 psi of boost through that core. Baldturbofreak knows abit about the theory of turbos and intercooling, maybe he will chime in. Did Bell give you a recommendation?

[lcvette]

Anti,

Thanks for the number crunchin man! I am still waiting for Bell to respond, they are kinda slow i guess.. from their site they sound like they would respond before ya even hit the send button..lol

I was looking at the 3.5" x 8" x 20" they have.... i took some measurements, and if i run it similar tot eh ATI setup, witht he inlet on the bottom andthen fabb the top end tank i will have room for the 3" pipe to run doen the passenger side of the IC on top of the radiator shroud.. I will cut out the top of the radiator shroud and fit the IC in as best as possible for clearance and flow.. I htink something of this size is gonna have to work unless i can find a core with more charge air channel length like a 10 or 12".. this would/should help increase the efficiency as far as temperature drop across the IC.. the longer it is in the cooling fins, the more ability the IC has to disipate the heat in the charged air. I am again out of cashflow.. lol just ordered everything else for my fuel system...that added up to MUCH more then i was budgeting for.. but again.. the fuel system is gonna be able to handle more then I will..lol so the IC is gonna have to be put on hold for a couple weeks.. which is fine because I still have SO SO much fab work to do, i will not be ready for it before the piggy bank has recovered from the recent purchases..

on a bright note, here is what i now have ready and waiting..

355.. forged 8.8 : 1, done and paid for almost ready to bolt in
mcleod street twin clutch assembly
ported heads w SS valves and 1.440" springs, cups, Ti retainers, 10* locks
ported intake manifold
meziere WP heavy duty
Billet double roller timing set
Crane gold 1.6 non self aligning 7/16" RR's
studs/guideplates
twin Walbro GSS340 pumps
all fuel lines fittings, Filter, Regulator, wiring harness's and switches
50mm external Wastegate w/ flanges and gaskets
50mm Tial BOV w/ flanges and gaskets
all mandrel bent plumbing for hot side and cold side
GT45 Turbocharger
flanges, gaskets, oil lines
new radiator
52mm TB
AKM cable
83lb injectors
Acceleronics converter box (VersaFueler)
MSD 6al
New Optispark
new MSD 8.5 wires


Still need IC tube joints and T-bolt clamps
Intercooler and end tank fabbing material
tunercat software
boost controller
WB O2 sensor setup
Gauges and senders
Meth or alky injection
N2O intercooler spray bar setup

im sure a few other things that escape me right now, but as stated above I have plenty to get me going and keep me busy for a while before i need anything else to overwhelm me..lol

I'll keep ya posted!

Chris

[ANTI VENOM]

Chris, you can easily fit that size core in front of the air cond radiator. What's it called, a condensor? Anyway, you will see that the lower IC tank will just about block all the incoming air if it is standing upright. I don't know how an ATI intercooler mounts. That is why I talked to you about the AO engineering cutout for more flow and it would be directed right onto the intercooler. That is still my basic plan. I may not come out of the top (middle) of the intercooler and go over the radiator and into the throttle body like you mentioned. I might come out the top on the side and go around. Then I don't have to buy a custom IC. I have a MIG, but I am not setup to do AL and have not tried it with my welder. I would then have to make a new shroud. My friend has been playing with carbon fiber and he is gettin pretty good at it. He made a shroud for his camaro. The stuff looks so tuff! I suppose I better go out to the shop and work on my "project". I'm woking on my accesory mounting from the LT1 conversion. Catch ya later!

[Baldturbofreak]

For big power I would go water air. There isn't sufficient space to do a truly massive air to air that would support lots o boost without making major concessions. I run the 6x 10 pwr, there are many similar ic's available. Mine is rated at less than a 0.1psi drop at 900cfm. I've been told by those who have used it to capacity and it was over 1800cfm. Im getting ready to upgrade to a pair of them so I can chill the hell out of the air with my a/c system cooler tank. Use the passenger side locker for a tank like I am. It makes your car hook like Heidi Fleiss

[TONYDEE64]

Rick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome back brother!!!!!!!!! WHERE have you been?????????

Everything in my world all of a sudden has balance once again!!!!!


[Modified by TONYDEE64, 10:53 AM 5/19/2004]

[BrianCunningham]

I think the simplest way is to build the intercooler around the radiator..this allows the blower outlet tube to be short with one turn. Coming out of the intercooler you will have a straight shot at the intake...

Take care,

Tony

That's what they did here: John Meaney's 1,300hp, Daily Driver Vette

Also very impressive among Troy's work is the way the intercooler was packaged with the radiator into the Corvette's conventional location (using a custom fan shroud and a Viper fan motor) and the notching of the frame to include the Vintage Air A/C system. Can you imagine trying to retain power steering, spin the alternator and an A/C compressor? Troy did, and it all works here.

[TONYDEE64]

Actually I think they did stand the radiator straight up and down just like I did. I have spoken with John several times and he is THE MAN in my book. He and Troy's work pretty much separates the men from the boys. If the planets align properly I'll be going up to see him within the next month to put the final tune on my car... I'm hoping to also get a ride in his monster as well!!!

[ANTI VENOM]

Money is what's seperating this boy from becoming a man!!!! When money isn't in the equation, the math gets alot easier.

[Ice-Vette]

Here are a couple of pictures from a 454 TT setup made here in Iceland.

[TONYDEE64]

I think I just messed myself... Does it have A/C, power steering?

[Baldturbofreak]

Man and I thought I took the sawzall to my vette.....

School semester swallowed me whole, Tony. Turns out I gave it the runs, so IM back now.

[TONYDEE64]

I was honest to god starting to worry about you!!! Do you have that bad boy back together yet? Have you started on your roll cage? I'm at the tail end of doing a 6-point roll bar (w/swingouts) for mine. I just can't see doing anything more since mine is a street car.

I've been spending some time over on the Viper forum... Man, those guys go at it over there.... very entertaining.

[lcvette]

Hey Tony...whats the address for the viper foprum your referring too?

BTF ya undigestable bastard glad to have ya back man... all kinds of neet stuff going on in FI section here.. hopefully sometime in the next month or two some pictures will be up and some cars running shortly after.. then we all gotta find a place to meet up and have some boosted fun! that would be one hell of a C4 gathering.. a strong showing for certain! where ya at with your car now? any updates?

Chris

[TONYDEE64]

Hey Chris,

Go to the C5 Forced Induction forum. Go down and look for the thread entitled "Who shamed the Vette Nation". On the very first post you will see two links, one for the VCA, and one for the Valley Viper something or other. Read the thread about F-bodies owning Vipers.. There is a guy named "Vipersuck" who is playing with those guys big time... I started reading through the tread (18 pages) and just like a good book I couldn't put it down... got to bed after midnight. Those guys go after each other like you wouldn't believe...

[Baldturbofreak]

Well I have the motor and interior out of it right now. Im having trouble finding a machine shop that I don't need to threaten bodily harm to get some good work out of them. I'm finishing up a customer car today as soon as I get done with that I will begin all the little bullshirt things that annoyed me last year while I wait on my block. If it wernt for the fact that Id have to ship my block half way across the country $$$$ Id have J burdett do the whole thing bore, cryo etc. But I don't have $1000 left for machine work. I tell ya men, Im getting so pissed off about finding a trustworthy machine shop Im ready to go lease a rottler boring/sunnen honing machine and start doing the poopie myself. sorry bout the rant

[lcvette]

here here good buddy.. I am with ya.. I do have a great machinist who is very reliable and does excellent work.. but he is not a speed worker.. and often times it takes several visits and sometimes I go in and give him a hand which I personally enjoy being able to do to make sure we spend the time on the important things... he has all the equipment to do anything you coulkd ever imagine, but I only let HIM work on my stuff.. and he is backlogged for performance builds.. he has some cronies who are not as experienced as him that do the repair builds, and I give him explicit instructions that i will pay for HIM and only HIM to do the work! I am waiting on my block still, money has finally dictated using the stock LT4 crank with forged rods and forged pistons and new H series bearings, so power output is limited to the crankshaft now.. not sure what it will hold and for how long but i think if everything is setup perfectly, it should last a good while until i have some more dough to build large CID SB... and at that point it will be time to turn the boost ALL the way up and see what she'll do.. right now i think the LT4 crank will hold 650-700 RWHP with proper tuning though... but we'll see!

Chris