TURBOCHARGERS
Wow I see that turbo market in vette is quite big.
So questions for experts, sorry for perhaps silly questions.
I thinking about light turbocharging my ‘88 vette, say 5-6 psi.
Goal is do not touch stock engine.
I thinking about two or single turbo
What about turbos lubrication? Use from independent oil system (I do not make more heat stress to engine) or from engine?
Turbo (turbos) will be water cooled from normal engine cooling system (as in supra) or not?.
Intercooler, or intercoolers will be needed or not? If yes may I use OEM intercoolers (say two) from audi 2.2 t I can placed in front of car where now in passenger side now is radiator reservoir (I relocated it one year ago) and on driver side is tank for gas fumes (I do not need it) and vacuum reservoir (I can relocate it)
All necessary pipes (intake and exhaust side) are no problem for me (stainless steel is cheap in Poland and labour too.
What about fuel system. Bigger injectors and stock ECU? Maybe reprogrammed?
What about MAF sensor?
My target is 100 HP more. (I will be happy, for some time :lol: )
Jerry
Ahh, I have no EGR and not AIR at all (there is more room under the hood than in stock vette)
Single turbo = MAJOR PITA to re-route exhaust from 2 sides to 1 location for turbo then out to exhaust.
Twin turbo = usually only viable option on a V8 system
There is no 'light' turbocharging... There is only works, or blows engine up systems. :crazy: You can set a low PSI to pump into your engine, but that would make no sense over the cost of all of this.
You will HAVE to touch your stock engine.. Bone stock L98 will need slight mods to support the turbo boost. (Injectors, ECM/Programming, Maf-Rerouting etc.)
Turbos do not lubricate though the coolant system, only the oil system. It won't put a 'heat' stress on the engine, otherwise 4Cylinders wouldn't use a tap form the oilpan to the turbos. Intercooler will work great and reduce temps plenty if used, BUT you need to up the PSI a few just to counter the Intercoolers' demand. I wouldn't press my luck with 2 intercoolers... You won't need it at all..
This should get you quite more than 100HP too, so you will need to look over your Rear end, and tranny.
Sound sliek a fun upgrade though. I would love to have a Turbo L98, but too expensive. Keep us poste dif you do make it. :cheers:
Thanks, MrNuke :cheers:
I talking about water cooled turbos as in supra.
So it looks as lube direct from engine. It simplify project. Turbos? K03 or K04?
What parts I must replace for turbo in my L98: only forged pistons for and lover compression (8:1, 8.5:1)
Or connection rods too?
Crank I hope can stay stock?
Next will be fuel system (larger injections and fuel pump)?
And what about engine controller? I think that stock ECU cant handle all changes even with reprogrammed eprom? Any alternatives?
Sorry perhaps for stupid and strange questions but there is only way to know something...
I say if your gonna do it.... it so much work already do it right.... rip out the motor and rebuild it to support higher boost levels..... And dont forget.... Tranny and Rearends much be able to handle this kinda power.... A major problem with turbos is the heat they produce......
But if you feel you want to leave the motor.... you will have to upgrade a little bit, like listed above.... Its a CRAP LOAD of work.... How big of turbos are you going to use??? You might want to change your cam to maximize boost levels and any sort of lag
how big turbos?
I do not know, perhaps for 8-12 psi. I thinking about K03 or K04 (it is Garret I think)
Someone can give me direction how stuff use in that project: turbos, wastegares, engine management, injectors, ect...???
I do not want super mega power, not 800 or 1000 :eek: . Realistic, just say 400-500 HP
Just put a ATI or Vortech system and call it a day? i know alot of guys that thought turbo's but in the end they end up with Chargers and they sounds really cool 2.
OK, I dunno a bunch about the specifics on an L98, but I do know turbo stuff.
Single v.s. twin-
Is you car an auto or a stick? If its an auto I would go single. There are a TON less issues going with single than twin. With twins you have to get the wastegates to function at the eaxt same PSI, kind tough, you've got twice the components to worry about failing, etc... On a V8 the only drawback to a single is the before mention exhaust routing. If you can conquer that you are in there. A single will spool a tad slower than twins, but with an auto you don't have to let off the gas when you shift. When you let off the gas and close the TB, the turbo(s) have to start all over again. This is why you would want to go twins with a stick.
Turbo selection- For a single something similiar to a T66, for twins a big T3 or a T3/T4 hybrid would be my recommendation. You should check out you local library for a book called "Maximum Boost." Its a great resource.
Thanks Neat
My vette is auto. So single turbo?
I think that single is less complex than twin. :D
1. So place it on passenger side or driver side?
I have no EGR and AIR stuff. So there is more room under the hood than in stock.
Next I have room where coolant reservoir (I relocated it) and I can remove that all evoporative control system on another side (place for two small intercoolers, perhaps from audi 2.2 T?).
2. What parts must change in engine?
Only pistons and rings?
On beginning I do not want big turbo power, perhaps 5-8 psi...
3. What about fuel management system?
Bigger all eight injectors or one 9th big injector?
What about Mass Air Flow sensor?
I want some joy, not mega power, just start and have some power. If it will work I can start upgrading engine, and so on....(I know I must WHEN serious upgrade everything)
Jerry
:cheers:
Sorry for my English
If you are swaping the pistons I would just go ahead and forge the entire bottom end. a litle money now = much less money later
(the eclipse had a completely forged bottom end vs the non turbo and it only made 62 more horsepower) Just a thought
You will probobly need to get a chip burned for you at a dyno tuner, you will also most likely need 8 new larger injectors+high volume fuel pump.
I love T3 or T/4 turbos but the are both too big for what your looking for in MHO Big turbo=high boost+Lag A smaller turbo could perform the same thing much faster(Ie my eclipse had a t-25 and it put out 14.7 lbs/sqare in, it had spoled up by 2200 t/4 your looking at 3000 Rpm.
From my research I have come to the following conclusions.
1)Nitrous is the cheapest way to add a lot of HP. But it is only useful in Straight line racing. Can cause excess ware on motor. Not my favorite.
2) Turbo is the overall proformence winner. With a ve you will need TT not a single. you will have to have a manifold built to handle the tt and preasure. YOu will also need to do some tuning to get every thing gust right. It takes big bucks to butt turbos to a vette. $$$$. I parted it out once and came up with 6K to 7K. The manifold is the big ticket item. I looked around and could not find a kit to tt a L98.
3) Supercharger - works off the motor. it does have a parisite loss of power due to added burden on the motor. of the 3 its not as cheap as NOS and not as efficent as a turbo but it does come in kits and is a lot easer to install count on about 10 hrs of labor. It also doesn.t suffer from turbo lag. It is still $$$ kits are around 4-5K last time I looked it up.
Actually you could make a single turbo system rather easy. Yes there is such a thing as light turbo boosting. The great thing about a turbo is they are not on off switchs you can control the amount of boost through and adjustable wastegate. A twin system is more difficult to build than a single because of room. However you could run two small T3 Turbonetics turbos and they would fit right in front of the foot wells in the engine. This would also not cause major exhaust fabrication. You will have to run and oil pump for them to pump the oil back into the oil pan. Another great thing about turbos compared to NOS is that they are easy on an engine as long as you do not get carried away with the boost pressure. You sould be able to pump around 6-8psi into your stock engine and it will seem like a completely different vehicle. Anything over that and you will need to go into the bottom end for strengthening. Good luck on your project and call Turbonetics.
Actually you could make a single turbo system rather easy. Yes there is such a thing as light turbo boosting. The great thing about a turbo is they are not on off switchs you can control the amount of boost through and adjustable wastegate. A twin system is more difficult to build than a single because of room. However you could run two small T3 Turbonetics turbos and they would fit right in front of the foot wells in the engine. This would also not cause major exhaust fabrication. You will have to run and oil pump for them to pump the oil back into the oil pan. Another great thing about turbos compared to NOS is that they are easy on an engine as long as you do not get carried away with the boost pressure. You sould be able to pump around 6-8psi into your stock engine and it will seem like a completely different vehicle. Anything over that and you will need to go into the bottom end for strengthening. Good luck on your project and call Turbonetics.
No offense, but on a corvette, YOU try building a single turbo system instead of a twin turbo.. Good luck.. It would be an exhaust plumbing nightmare. And also, if you are running 6-8psi turbo on a V8, be prepared to vent about 35% or more to the open all the time.. 6-8psi on a turbo is nothing, and venting that much out is a pretty stupid idea. Turbos are NOTHING like centrifugal superchargers. Turboes get HOTTER, exhaust gets a LOT hotter, they spin FASTER (LOT faster), and thus create more boost.. Not something you wanna 'play' guessing games with.. :rolleyes:
Mr.Nuke,
No offense taken, I am not someone sitting around dreaming of what you can build. I am also very fimiliar with turbo and supercharging systems. Yes it would be very easy to run a single compared to a twin. No it is not an exhaust nightmare it is actually easier than the twins. The only piping you are worried about is making the y connection as it enters the turbo and a single pipe out. With a dual system you and inlet/outlet to pipe along with the turbo itself. Have you really looked to see how much room is under the hood of a Vette. When you do where would you mount twins. I am not saying that you can't mount twins because we are working on one now, but there is massive modifications being done to fit them. As far as the PSI, how much do you suppose a turbo should operate at. I gues Lingenfelter does not know this also since his 550 package is a twin and there only pumping in 5psi into the engine. That is the great thing about turbos compared to Superchargers, you can dial in the boost from inside the car with how much you need. Yes you loose much of the pressure back through the exhaust, but that is what a waste gate was desingned to do. Sorry but I do not have any ties to turbonetics, I use there products because they are top quality. By the way I also have a 86 with a ZF6sp and a Vortech. The vortech spins 52,000 @ 6000 RPM. So the superchargers also spin massive rpm's, thats how they build the boost, same as a turbo. The only differece in a turbos and supercharger is how the impeller is spun. Single Turbos work very well, my friend has a 69 Z that makes over 900 bhp and its a 350 that you could drive to the store or work everyday in traffic, so I would think we know what we are doing.
I don't mean to get in a pissing war, but I HAVE looked at quite a few Turbo V8 setups, and most EFI setups in corvettes and Fbodies are twin turbos.
I still don't understand how you can claim that a single turbo exhaust plumbing is easier than a dual.. Also I strongly DOUBT the Lingenfelter TT you are referring to only runs at 5PSI, considering ALL the other turbo upgrades from manufacturers run at 12psi and ABOVE.. I believe your buddy's 69Z (Im guessing Z28)is running a single turbowith the V8, but then again we are talking about a C4 Corvette, and not a 69 Z with a tonn of room in the engine compartment and a tenth of the amount of wiring as the Corvette. A Single turbo is usually BETTER to use, no doubt about it, but sometimes not worth the hassle.
Now to compare a Supercharger to a Turbo, there is a LOT of difference between 52000rpms vs 125K, which turbos see easy.
Ohh ps... If your Vortech spins at 52000 rpms much, it will be time for a rebuild soon. Their maximum rpm tolerance is between 50-60K before they break down..
I think I said enough of my piece, if you wish to reply you may do so, I'll just read it and keep my comments to myself. But I recommend doign a bit more homework before trying to sound like you know what you are talking about..
Considering some of us actually do.
thanks
do you have any pictures how single in vette looks like?
I saw one but no way how piping are made. Maybe if I relocate alternator in air pump place (my AIR system is not working) there will be space for turbo on driver side and when I can save my air condition?. How do you think, with additional fuel injection how much psi I can safe make in my all stock L98?.
about horsepower. I really be satisfy with 100 additional horses. Really!
How strength is stock crankshaft in my L98, and connection rods? I do not want more RPM, just more power.
Thanks :cheers:
Jerry, Poland
Obviously I'm partial to Twin Turbo's, but here are a couple of proven examples of street driven, pump gas TT's, that each make 1000+hp in C4's... Both utilize TO4E based, 60-1, Precision Turbo PT-52's.
Mr nuke your right whatever you say,
One question, have you ever built or owned one. I have and I do. Yes I hope my Vortech is ready for a rebuild, but the numbers they post are 10% low, bet you did not know that. Yes the 550 Lingenfelter is only 5 psi. Yes I also prefer Twins but you said a single was too dificult and that is what I was responding too along with his budget in mind. Monty I have talked to you before, I am the one with the C4 that is installing 2 60-1's in my car. I have all of my parts now but we are working out some details like my A/C system. I will have to relocate the box so I am looking into and R/V type system.
Mr Nuke you might not know who owns one of the tt cars, but it is John Meany who designed the DFI system which is what the Z28 has which has more wiring under the hood than what my 86 Corvette does. So before you tell someone they do not know what they are talking about, maybe you should do your homework. Kooks has no problems building a single turbo system for a C4 because I looked into that first, however my horsepower goal is too high for a single turbo that will still fit under the hood so we went with the twins. If you do not know who KOOKS is then maybe you need to do more searching on the internet considering it sounds that is where you get most of your info from. Call Lingenfelter and ask them what the psi is on there TT550 kit is.
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L98 turbo, some questons
