Help on modifying Old School Magnuson MC220 Twin Screw Supercharger
11-25-2013, 07:40 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Help on modifying Old School Magnuson MC220 Twin Screw Supercharger
Hi, I know this is the wrong section, but there is no "C3 Forced Induction" forum. I bought a 81 vette with a Magnuson MC-220 Supercharger, headers & a Doug Nash 5 Speed. Very nice old car! It runs well, but I think I want to make it a little healthier. I was considering the following, let me know your thoughts.....
1) Change the rearend from 2.72 to 3.36, the Doug Nash 1st gear is 3.27.
2) Swap the stock heads to something like the Profiler 195cc heads with the smaller 65cc chambers. The stock compression is 8.2, this will probably bump it to about 9.2.
3) The stock cam is the L-82 Grind, 222/222 450/460 114. Magnuson said a cam change greatly improved power.....I don't know where to go with this? I love a really drivable cam.
Thanks & please let me know if you have some insight on this.
1) Change the rearend from 2.72 to 3.36, the Doug Nash 1st gear is 3.27.
2) Swap the stock heads to something like the Profiler 195cc heads with the smaller 65cc chambers. The stock compression is 8.2, this will probably bump it to about 9.2.
3) The stock cam is the L-82 Grind, 222/222 450/460 114. Magnuson said a cam change greatly improved power.....I don't know where to go with this? I love a really drivable cam.
Thanks & please let me know if you have some insight on this.
11-25-2013, 01:26 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
Hey buddy, very cool setup. I've actually seem that supercharger setup on a c4 before (old photos).
This section of the c4 forum is also relatively slow, but I hope a few more people chime in.
In my opinion, your three choices are spot on for more power and more fun.
1) your choice of rear-end gear looks to be spot on. The 2.72 is a total dog, even behind a 4-speed.
2) I prefer a larger head (larger intake port volume, which is what heads are kind of categorized by). For instance, a 205cc head. The chamber volume is pretty good (65cc). In my opinion the bump is compression won't hurt your combination, and it will feel more lively. The larger port volume should result in more power, without you even noticing any drivability issues, since compression will also be up a bit.
3) with supercharged cars, keep the lobe separation angle between 113-116. This will result in a more "driver friend" profile as well. When you start cutting down to a 110-112 LSA that's when you actually get the choppy idle, and at that point you're also outside of the blowers operating efficiency. So a good cam profile to take advantage of the blower should look like this: 228(I)/232(E) with .5xx lift on both ends (if you know you have the clearance for your pistons. Don't be afraid of lift). Ideally, I'd go .58x-.6xx lift (if you have the clearance and proper valve train to support it). "Minimum" .55x on both ends. Even though I think your profile (222/222) is a bit mild, it will definitely work.
This section of the c4 forum is also relatively slow, but I hope a few more people chime in.
In my opinion, your three choices are spot on for more power and more fun.
1) your choice of rear-end gear looks to be spot on. The 2.72 is a total dog, even behind a 4-speed.
2) I prefer a larger head (larger intake port volume, which is what heads are kind of categorized by). For instance, a 205cc head. The chamber volume is pretty good (65cc). In my opinion the bump is compression won't hurt your combination, and it will feel more lively. The larger port volume should result in more power, without you even noticing any drivability issues, since compression will also be up a bit.
3) with supercharged cars, keep the lobe separation angle between 113-116. This will result in a more "driver friend" profile as well. When you start cutting down to a 110-112 LSA that's when you actually get the choppy idle, and at that point you're also outside of the blowers operating efficiency. So a good cam profile to take advantage of the blower should look like this: 228(I)/232(E) with .5xx lift on both ends (if you know you have the clearance for your pistons. Don't be afraid of lift). Ideally, I'd go .58x-.6xx lift (if you have the clearance and proper valve train to support it). "Minimum" .55x on both ends. Even though I think your profile (222/222) is a bit mild, it will definitely work.
Last edited by mnstrlt1; 11-25-2013 at 01:29 PM.
11-25-2013, 04:25 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
Ok, so you have a positive displacement supercharger, and a small block. That small block still needs a "compromise" between low engine speed drivability (for an analogy, while it's breathing on its own) and maximum power effort (when the supercharger is doing the work). The supercharger artificially makes the small-block feel like a bigger engine because it's forcing that air down the engines throat. But an oversized cam would cause all sort of issues (poor idle, lack of vacuum, shift in power band). You "still" need to match your cam accordingly, but the proper duration, lift, and LSA would just take "advantage" of the superchargers presence.
I hope this helped?
This also is true for the bigger cylinder heads, we're trying to get the engine to breath better with fewer restrictions. The supercharger just magnifies these modifications (or results in even better gains when the supercharger is added).
11-25-2013, 07:29 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
No, a larger displacement engine behaves differently in relation to a supercharged engine. A supercharger doesn't make a cam feel "milder". The reason a big block needs more "cam" is because it has a bigger appetite (for fuel and air)
Ok, so you have a positive displacement supercharger, and a small block. That small block still needs a "compromise" between low engine speed drivability (for an analogy, while it's breathing on its own) and maximum power effort (when the supercharger is doing the work). The supercharger artificially makes the small-block feel like a bigger engine because it's forcing that air down the engines throat. But an oversized cam would cause all sort of issues (poor idle, lack of vacuum, shift in power band). You "still" need to match your cam accordingly, but the proper duration, lift, and LSA would just take "advantage" of the superchargers presence.
I hope this helped?
This also is true for the bigger cylinder heads, we're trying to get the engine to breath better with fewer restrictions. The supercharger just magnifies these modifications (or results in even better gains when the supercharger is added).
Ok, so you have a positive displacement supercharger, and a small block. That small block still needs a "compromise" between low engine speed drivability (for an analogy, while it's breathing on its own) and maximum power effort (when the supercharger is doing the work). The supercharger artificially makes the small-block feel like a bigger engine because it's forcing that air down the engines throat. But an oversized cam would cause all sort of issues (poor idle, lack of vacuum, shift in power band). You "still" need to match your cam accordingly, but the proper duration, lift, and LSA would just take "advantage" of the superchargers presence.
I hope this helped?
This also is true for the bigger cylinder heads, we're trying to get the engine to breath better with fewer restrictions. The supercharger just magnifies these modifications (or results in even better gains when the supercharger is added).
Also....what is the correlation between rear gear & supercharging? Thanks.
11-25-2013, 08:07 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
For example my 383 (small block) has a cam as follows; 236/242. I would have gone a little more if I did it over again. So 232/232 is fine.
Rear-end gears have nothing to do with the supercharger. The "shorter" the gears (numerically higher value) the more "instant" it feels when the power comes on. The car "feels" more lively.
Think of a mountain bicycle. When you have it on the "easiest" gear, you can get moving much easier, but you hit the wall a lot quicker (peddling like crazy, but aren't getting anywhere-low top speed). In comparison to the "hardest" gear, which is super tough to get moving, but you get to go much faster (top speed).
2.72's give you a super high top-speed (almost pointless) but also good gas mileage, 3.26's will be a great "happy medium". Let's say you decided to get 4.56 gears, THAT would be way too short of a gear. So the car would feel super fast (or powerful), but you'd top-out very early. This is all just a simple analogy.
11-25-2013, 09:21 PM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
232/232 is fine, it's not "too much" cam.
For example my 383 (small block) has a cam as follows; 236/242. I would have gone a little more if I did it over again. So 232/232 is fine.
Rear-end gears have nothing to do with the supercharger. The "shorter" the gears (numerically higher value) the more "instant" it feels when the power comes on. The car "feels" more lively.
Think of a mountain bicycle. When you have it on the "easiest" gear, you can get moving much easier, but you hit the wall a lot quicker (peddling like crazy, but aren't getting anywhere-low top speed). In comparison to the "hardest" gear, which is super tough to get moving, but you get to go much faster (top speed).
2.72's give you a super high top-speed (almost pointless) but also good gas mileage, 3.26's will be a great "happy medium". Let's say you decided to get 4.56 gears, THAT would be way too short of a gear. So the car would feel super fast (or powerful), but you'd top-out very early. This is all just a simple analogy.
For example my 383 (small block) has a cam as follows; 236/242. I would have gone a little more if I did it over again. So 232/232 is fine.
Rear-end gears have nothing to do with the supercharger. The "shorter" the gears (numerically higher value) the more "instant" it feels when the power comes on. The car "feels" more lively.
Think of a mountain bicycle. When you have it on the "easiest" gear, you can get moving much easier, but you hit the wall a lot quicker (peddling like crazy, but aren't getting anywhere-low top speed). In comparison to the "hardest" gear, which is super tough to get moving, but you get to go much faster (top speed).
2.72's give you a super high top-speed (almost pointless) but also good gas mileage, 3.26's will be a great "happy medium". Let's say you decided to get 4.56 gears, THAT would be way too short of a gear. So the car would feel super fast (or powerful), but you'd top-out very early. This is all just a simple analogy.
As for rear end gears, I have 6 speeds running 4.09's, 4.10's & 3.70's. Since this is a non-overdrive, pure street 5 speed, I thought the 3.36 would be about optimal. The closest I found has been 3.31.
I think for now, I will do the gears, install a boost gauge & get a little more info.
Here is a question I have wondered about.....if I install less restrictive heads & exhaust, could I drop boost pressure because of less restriction & get the same "charge", but because of less restriction....make more power showing less boost????
Thanks again.
12-29-2013, 11:31 PM
#9
thats a great looking set up alnukem !! very cool...
how does it run?? can you give us more pics of the car...?? neat
how does it run?? can you give us more pics of the car...?? neat
12-30-2013, 02:19 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
Thank you very much for taking the time to school me. I am very ignorant in this arena.
As for rear end gears, I have 6 speeds running 4.09's, 4.10's & 3.70's. Since this is a non-overdrive, pure street 5 speed, I thought the 3.36 would be about optimal. The closest I found has been 3.31.
I think for now, I will do the gears, install a boost gauge & get a little more info.
Here is a question I have wondered about.....if I install less restrictive heads & exhaust, could I drop boost pressure because of less restriction & get the same "charge", but because of less restriction....make more power showing less boost????
Thanks again.
As for rear end gears, I have 6 speeds running 4.09's, 4.10's & 3.70's. Since this is a non-overdrive, pure street 5 speed, I thought the 3.36 would be about optimal. The closest I found has been 3.31.
I think for now, I will do the gears, install a boost gauge & get a little more info.
Here is a question I have wondered about.....if I install less restrictive heads & exhaust, could I drop boost pressure because of less restriction & get the same "charge", but because of less restriction....make more power showing less boost????
Thanks again.
01-02-2014, 07:06 AM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Happy New Years! It seems to run Pretty Good......I always have to mess with stuff though! I located a complete Diff for a stick with 3.08's pretty cheap, I will go with that & see.
01-02-2014, 12:49 PM
#12
Safety Car
01-02-2014, 02:06 PM
#13
yep..very nice looking car !! love the supercharger...
01-02-2014, 11:27 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for answering that. I thought that's the way it went but no one seems to grasp that. They also seem to overlook flow in the head. I know it's "not as important" as it would be on N/A, but, it still has to be important. Thanks, Tim
01-02-2014, 11:57 PM
#16
Hi Tim, its a good project..i've got lots and lots of experience in forced induction.... first thing... determine your pain level...best bang for the buck...correct roller cam, lifters, heads...and dont think about increasing compression yet... those older screw's are not compressors..just air pumps.. so heat sinks...
From the hip.... and i built a 572" 454ss truck with 2 prochargers and 2 intercoolers... spun off the mustang dyno at 750hp...insane....and a 85 pantera..we notched the bell housing and spun the vortech mondo off the flywheel...custom cog belt.. and put 800 to the ground with that one... with of course efi, water/meth injection, etc
so..best bang for the buck is the following formula...unless you want to wake up with $50K in the motor... its a disease..hahahahaa
SIMPLE FORCED INDUCTION:
1) keep the twin air pump, (or sell to me..hahahahaha)
2) CHEAP: have the 2 side drafts..immediately rebuilt and by someone that knows the carbs...
3) Install O2 sensors with meters in each exhaust bank
4) Install an exhaust temp gauge on one header (make sure you have headers)
5) put on alum. open heads $2k.... far 215s or so... something that can breathe
6) Roller cam, lifters... in a mild forced induction grind...look at zz9 from tpis.com
7) be ready for new clutch after dialed in.
8) Get a water injection set up from Snow Performance... boost regulated..it sprays BLUE window washer spray which is about 35% meth.... no extra container...just tap off the window container..for the snow performance water/meth pump... and keep full with off the shelf wal mart blue window washer...it works fine...
9) negotiate dyno roller time... for full tune in...
10) Have your carb guy..not some idiot at the dyno shop..there at the dyno...with all the jets, etc, he needs..
11) LOW ROLL... after cam, head swap, water/,meth, runs OK... just LOW ROLL..to say 200 hp or so... and watch your EGT (temps and O2 ratio)....
12) OH... get ceramic coated headers...
Thats the cheap 101 blower fast end.... make sure your EGT's are good and low..not lean...and keep O2 sensors in the little fat range 13.7...
13) Make sure you dont go CHEAP on water/meth injection...snow or someone should be $600 plus..or your not getting what you need.... you can get boost referenced...you can also get it to spray on hot EGTs
14) set your timing very conservative..but similar to stock... for that older air pump... drop 2 degrees total timing for every pound of boost..... i'd guess..your total advance should be in the 28 degree range tops...for safety..
BUT...as you tune... you can bring that up with good alumn heads, good water/meth..blue spray... and before you're done.. you'll prolly be up to 32 degrees total... just go easy...\\\
Use stock heat range plugs for that blower, etc... dont go all cold...the water/meth takes care of..\
and finally... of course alum triple pass radiator with elect fans that just come on quick...
With the above...with a forged 8:1 bottom end...you can easily make 500 to say 550 to the ground...of real hard pull... like 2000 to 5000 will be a shot of colombian bam bam....hard...
best of luck bro !!
From the hip.... and i built a 572" 454ss truck with 2 prochargers and 2 intercoolers... spun off the mustang dyno at 750hp...insane....and a 85 pantera..we notched the bell housing and spun the vortech mondo off the flywheel...custom cog belt.. and put 800 to the ground with that one... with of course efi, water/meth injection, etc
so..best bang for the buck is the following formula...unless you want to wake up with $50K in the motor... its a disease..hahahahaa
SIMPLE FORCED INDUCTION:
1) keep the twin air pump, (or sell to me..hahahahaha)
2) CHEAP: have the 2 side drafts..immediately rebuilt and by someone that knows the carbs...
3) Install O2 sensors with meters in each exhaust bank
4) Install an exhaust temp gauge on one header (make sure you have headers)
5) put on alum. open heads $2k.... far 215s or so... something that can breathe
6) Roller cam, lifters... in a mild forced induction grind...look at zz9 from tpis.com
7) be ready for new clutch after dialed in.
8) Get a water injection set up from Snow Performance... boost regulated..it sprays BLUE window washer spray which is about 35% meth.... no extra container...just tap off the window container..for the snow performance water/meth pump... and keep full with off the shelf wal mart blue window washer...it works fine...
9) negotiate dyno roller time... for full tune in...
10) Have your carb guy..not some idiot at the dyno shop..there at the dyno...with all the jets, etc, he needs..
11) LOW ROLL... after cam, head swap, water/,meth, runs OK... just LOW ROLL..to say 200 hp or so... and watch your EGT (temps and O2 ratio)....
12) OH... get ceramic coated headers...
Thats the cheap 101 blower fast end.... make sure your EGT's are good and low..not lean...and keep O2 sensors in the little fat range 13.7...
13) Make sure you dont go CHEAP on water/meth injection...snow or someone should be $600 plus..or your not getting what you need.... you can get boost referenced...you can also get it to spray on hot EGTs
14) set your timing very conservative..but similar to stock... for that older air pump... drop 2 degrees total timing for every pound of boost..... i'd guess..your total advance should be in the 28 degree range tops...for safety..
BUT...as you tune... you can bring that up with good alumn heads, good water/meth..blue spray... and before you're done.. you'll prolly be up to 32 degrees total... just go easy...\\\
Use stock heat range plugs for that blower, etc... dont go all cold...the water/meth takes care of..\
and finally... of course alum triple pass radiator with elect fans that just come on quick...
With the above...with a forged 8:1 bottom end...you can easily make 500 to say 550 to the ground...of real hard pull... like 2000 to 5000 will be a shot of colombian bam bam....hard...
best of luck bro !!
01-03-2014, 12:18 AM
#17
let me add with emphasis....DO NOT INCREASE COMPRESSION.....
the old blowers look great...and they perform very linear...they also like to heat soak, etc...
your compression is right on now...i think you said 8:1 ...stay there...you can regulate the rest with pulley size, etc...water,meth...tuning...
So, if you go with heads... there are a couple things to STRONGLY consider... either use the new head gaskets that "crush an o ring" ...or have the heads o ring sealed...they machine a copper crushable o ring in the head... keeps you from smoking out head gaskets...
STUD THE HEADS....always with an older style blower...ALWAYS..... not just ARP bolts.....STUD THE HEADS ! sorry i left that out before....
the old blowers look great...and they perform very linear...they also like to heat soak, etc...
your compression is right on now...i think you said 8:1 ...stay there...you can regulate the rest with pulley size, etc...water,meth...tuning...
So, if you go with heads... there are a couple things to STRONGLY consider... either use the new head gaskets that "crush an o ring" ...or have the heads o ring sealed...they machine a copper crushable o ring in the head... keeps you from smoking out head gaskets...
STUD THE HEADS....always with an older style blower...ALWAYS..... not just ARP bolts.....STUD THE HEADS ! sorry i left that out before....
01-03-2014, 12:26 AM
#18
oh...god there are so many things...sorry for extra posts... typically..for a "draw through" system you have...sucking through the 2 side drafts.... the carbs are at ambient stoic.h... so... the easiest way to tune your air fuel ratio and egt's ...basically get your engine right...is... tune on the LOW ROLL..as above...roll on 200 or 300 hp...watch all...and watch your air fuel gauges and EGT's....and use a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator... so you're not chasing jet sizes around all the time...
if you try to chase the jet sizes... you get rich during idle and cruising...thenit runs correct when you're in it hard...or vice versa...
so ... you take your fuel pressure regulator (boost referenced..) with a vacuum line to the manifold BELOW the carbs.. to the regulator..and it increases fuel pressure as boost goes up..and its adjustable...so with 1 screw and lock down nut... you can tune off boost...cruising...and adjust how much more pressure you need to keep 13:1 air fuel..when on the boost...
if you try to chase the jet sizes... you get rich during idle and cruising...thenit runs correct when you're in it hard...or vice versa...
so ... you take your fuel pressure regulator (boost referenced..) with a vacuum line to the manifold BELOW the carbs.. to the regulator..and it increases fuel pressure as boost goes up..and its adjustable...so with 1 screw and lock down nut... you can tune off boost...cruising...and adjust how much more pressure you need to keep 13:1 air fuel..when on the boost...
01-03-2014, 12:46 AM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Hi Tim, its a good project..i've got lots and lots of experience in forced induction.... first thing... determine your pain level...best bang for the buck...correct roller cam, lifters, heads...and dont think about increasing compression yet... those older screw's are not compressors..just air pumps.. so heat sinks...
From the hip.... and i built a 572" 454ss truck with 2 prochargers and 2 intercoolers... spun off the mustang dyno at 750hp...insane....and a 85 pantera..we notched the bell housing and spun the vortech mondo off the flywheel...custom cog belt.. and put 800 to the ground with that one... with of course efi, water/meth injection, etc
so..best bang for the buck is the following formula...unless you want to wake up with $50K in the motor... its a disease..hahahahaa
SIMPLE FORCED INDUCTION:
1) keep the twin air pump, (or sell to me..hahahahaha)
2) CHEAP: have the 2 side drafts..immediately rebuilt and by someone that knows the carbs...
3) Install O2 sensors with meters in each exhaust bank
4) Install an exhaust temp gauge on one header (make sure you have headers)
5) put on alum. open heads $2k.... far 215s or so... something that can breathe
6) Roller cam, lifters... in a mild forced induction grind...look at zz9 from tpis.com
7) be ready for new clutch after dialed in.
8) Get a water injection set up from Snow Performance... boost regulated..it sprays BLUE window washer spray which is about 35% meth.... no extra container...just tap off the window container..for the snow performance water/meth pump... and keep full with off the shelf wal mart blue window washer...it works fine...
9) negotiate dyno roller time... for full tune in...
10) Have your carb guy..not some idiot at the dyno shop..there at the dyno...with all the jets, etc, he needs..
11) LOW ROLL... after cam, head swap, water/,meth, runs OK... just LOW ROLL..to say 200 hp or so... and watch your EGT (temps and O2 ratio)....
12) OH... get ceramic coated headers...
Thats the cheap 101 blower fast end.... make sure your EGT's are good and low..not lean...and keep O2 sensors in the little fat range 13.7...
13) Make sure you dont go CHEAP on water/meth injection...snow or someone should be $600 plus..or your not getting what you need.... you can get boost referenced...you can also get it to spray on hot EGTs
14) set your timing very conservative..but similar to stock... for that older air pump... drop 2 degrees total timing for every pound of boost..... i'd guess..your total advance should be in the 28 degree range tops...for safety..
BUT...as you tune... you can bring that up with good alumn heads, good water/meth..blue spray... and before you're done.. you'll prolly be up to 32 degrees total... just go easy...\\\
Use stock heat range plugs for that blower, etc... dont go all cold...the water/meth takes care of..\
and finally... of course alum triple pass radiator with elect fans that just come on quick...
With the above...with a forged 8:1 bottom end...you can easily make 500 to say 550 to the ground...of real hard pull... like 2000 to 5000 will be a shot of colombian bam bam....hard...
best of luck bro !!
From the hip.... and i built a 572" 454ss truck with 2 prochargers and 2 intercoolers... spun off the mustang dyno at 750hp...insane....and a 85 pantera..we notched the bell housing and spun the vortech mondo off the flywheel...custom cog belt.. and put 800 to the ground with that one... with of course efi, water/meth injection, etc
so..best bang for the buck is the following formula...unless you want to wake up with $50K in the motor... its a disease..hahahahaa
SIMPLE FORCED INDUCTION:
1) keep the twin air pump, (or sell to me..hahahahaha)
2) CHEAP: have the 2 side drafts..immediately rebuilt and by someone that knows the carbs...
3) Install O2 sensors with meters in each exhaust bank
4) Install an exhaust temp gauge on one header (make sure you have headers)
5) put on alum. open heads $2k.... far 215s or so... something that can breathe
6) Roller cam, lifters... in a mild forced induction grind...look at zz9 from tpis.com
7) be ready for new clutch after dialed in.
8) Get a water injection set up from Snow Performance... boost regulated..it sprays BLUE window washer spray which is about 35% meth.... no extra container...just tap off the window container..for the snow performance water/meth pump... and keep full with off the shelf wal mart blue window washer...it works fine...
9) negotiate dyno roller time... for full tune in...
10) Have your carb guy..not some idiot at the dyno shop..there at the dyno...with all the jets, etc, he needs..
11) LOW ROLL... after cam, head swap, water/,meth, runs OK... just LOW ROLL..to say 200 hp or so... and watch your EGT (temps and O2 ratio)....
12) OH... get ceramic coated headers...
Thats the cheap 101 blower fast end.... make sure your EGT's are good and low..not lean...and keep O2 sensors in the little fat range 13.7...
13) Make sure you dont go CHEAP on water/meth injection...snow or someone should be $600 plus..or your not getting what you need.... you can get boost referenced...you can also get it to spray on hot EGTs
14) set your timing very conservative..but similar to stock... for that older air pump... drop 2 degrees total timing for every pound of boost..... i'd guess..your total advance should be in the 28 degree range tops...for safety..
BUT...as you tune... you can bring that up with good alumn heads, good water/meth..blue spray... and before you're done.. you'll prolly be up to 32 degrees total... just go easy...\\\
Use stock heat range plugs for that blower, etc... dont go all cold...the water/meth takes care of..\
and finally... of course alum triple pass radiator with elect fans that just come on quick...
With the above...with a forged 8:1 bottom end...you can easily make 500 to say 550 to the ground...of real hard pull... like 2000 to 5000 will be a shot of colombian bam bam....hard...
best of luck bro !!
What do you think of your Pantera? I have been thinking of one of these & joined a forum last week. The 335 stroker engine stuff seems pretty complicated. I would love to see pics of your Pantera. Thanks, Tim
Last edited by alnukem; 01-03-2014 at 05:42 PM.
01-03-2014, 01:00 AM
#20
pantera was junk...threw bunch of money at it... really didnt like it too much...very small to drive...odd angles of driving...horrible brakes..even after $5k of brakes at dennis' shop in colorado, dennis quilla at pant era performance used it as a sell vehicle..was at his shop for almost its whole life...red 85 gt5...money pit.. just an uncomfortable car to even get in... like more stress in it ..than out of it...so didnt really drive much...
if you get one... i've still got a forged stroker crank and rouche raised port 351c heads in the garage...hahahaha
if you get one... i've still got a forged stroker crank and rouche raised port 351c heads in the garage...hahahaha