Roller rockers....worth it??
10-29-2003, 03:31 PM
#101
Le Mans Master
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (gkull)
Dep - read your articles fine print. Stock heads/springs/rockers " chevy 291 casting. Those were over the counter GM race heads allowed by Super Stock rules. I just sold a set of 292 which was an even more improved 291 head. Nothing stock about either of them. angle plugs, bigger springs, screw in studs, no provision for exhaust cross over. The biggest stock heads 46X and 186 castings had @ 163 - 165cc intake volume. the 29X were closer to 190 cc and some were neare 200cc with 2.055/1.60 valves
The poor guys running camel hump heads were thinking of things like pinning the rocker studs in to keep them from pulling. No stock out of the box 302 was ever doing 8000 rpm all day at the track. Talk to someone that really owned one not some bench racer BS or some highly modified 302
That would be like calling over the counter Chevy SB2 heads stock or in years past the aluminum 18 and 12 degree heads stock. Just because you could buy them at your dealer.
[Modified by gkull, 2:22 PM 10/29/2003]
The poor guys running camel hump heads were thinking of things like pinning the rocker studs in to keep them from pulling. No stock out of the box 302 was ever doing 8000 rpm all day at the track. Talk to someone that really owned one not some bench racer BS or some highly modified 302
That would be like calling over the counter Chevy SB2 heads stock or in years past the aluminum 18 and 12 degree heads stock. Just because you could buy them at your dealer.
[Modified by gkull, 2:22 PM 10/29/2003]
Oh geez...here we go again!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Look....it SAYS " Cylinder heads #3917291, completely stock, no porting allowed!Stock rocker arms & valve springs
The car WAS built to S/S specs. STOCK ROCKERS AND VALVE SPRINGS means it was built to S/S specs. We are talking about roller vs stamped rockers. There were NO roller rockers on that car!!!
I don't give two squirts about all the other crapola you listed. The POINT is it used STOCK SPRINGS AND ROCKERS! I NEVER said the head was "stock".
Just that the rockers were!!!!!
Cripes....join a football team next time you want to pick up the ball and run with it!
BTW...I don't know what your personal experience is, but I've seen stock 302 Z-28s CONSISTENTLY hit 8000 shifts ALL DAY at drag races.
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 2:33 PM 10/29/2003]
10-29-2003, 03:57 PM
#102
Melting Slicks
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Dep)
Oh yeah...the only small block worth having is the 302 Z-28 engine.
I always got that to fall back on :D :D :D
Dep
You need to get with it today. Man, we don't use numbers like 302 anymore, metric is where it's at. You should now call this potent little mouse a 5 liter Z28, or perhaps more accurately a 4.95.
I'm sure this was a simple oversight on your part. Your the most PC guy I know, right after the tooth fairy!
:D
Chuck
7 Liter Man
10-29-2003, 04:14 PM
#103
CFOT Attention Whore
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Chuck Harmon)
o.k. at first, i was like :confused:
then some people started arguing and i was like :rolleyes:
and then someone said something that made me :mad and i started to :cuss
then someone else jumped in with some :bs and i was all :skep:
and a couple people started to :boxing
and i sat back and :lurk:
but that turned out o.k. because they were just :jester and everybody
:grouphug:
then someone just went :rant:
and everybody else was listening like :lolg: :lolg: :lolg: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
so that person went off :cry
and everyone else was :hurray: :party:
so then everyone started to :cheers: and :chill:
and i got :sleep: and :leaving:
i think i'll stop spending so much time here and :steering: :seeya
then some people started arguing and i was like :rolleyes:
and then someone said something that made me :mad and i started to :cuss
then someone else jumped in with some :bs and i was all :skep:
and a couple people started to :boxing
and i sat back and :lurk:
but that turned out o.k. because they were just :jester and everybody
:grouphug:
then someone just went :rant:
and everybody else was listening like :lolg: :lolg: :lolg: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
so that person went off :cry
and everyone else was :hurray: :party:
so then everyone started to :cheers: and :chill:
and i got :sleep: and :leaving:
i think i'll stop spending so much time here and :steering: :seeya
10-29-2003, 04:23 PM
#105
Le Mans Master
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Fevre)
Well now I am :lol: :lol: :lol: again after that post by clutchdust!
Chuckles: Oh NOOOOOOOOOOO...No freakin metric for me!!!!! :cry :cry
It's bad enough all the crate motor lovers are stealing all the opposition's cubic inch numbers. I see "I just bolted a 406 into my car" and I think "COOL! Some guy bolted in a Ford FE series engine into his Vette!" or "I just bolted a 383 into my car" and I wonder "why would a guy install a Plymouth/Dodge/Chrylser engine in his Vette??? :rolleyes:
Now you want me to STEAL the Ford metric system? Ford alredy HAS A 7 Litre engine (428) and the 5.0....ugh!!! aka 5.slow
Hmmmm..don't tell Wes I said that ;)
Dep
Chuckles: Oh NOOOOOOOOOOO...No freakin metric for me!!!!! :cry :cry
It's bad enough all the crate motor lovers are stealing all the opposition's cubic inch numbers. I see "I just bolted a 406 into my car" and I think "COOL! Some guy bolted in a Ford FE series engine into his Vette!" or "I just bolted a 383 into my car" and I wonder "why would a guy install a Plymouth/Dodge/Chrylser engine in his Vette??? :rolleyes:
Now you want me to STEAL the Ford metric system? Ford alredy HAS A 7 Litre engine (428) and the 5.0....ugh!!! aka 5.slow
Hmmmm..don't tell Wes I said that ;)
Dep
10-29-2003, 05:30 PM
#107
Melting Slicks
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (wallyknoch)
The stamped steel are strong enough for any street/strip engine. In failure mode the stamped would bend verses the roller rockers probably breaking but i guess the pushrod would bend long before that. I used to have trouble bending pushrods and the stamped rocker would roll over to the side and cut a big slit in the stud at the base ruining the stud. I used roller rockers on the problem valves because of this issue.
The thing that bothers me is that roller rockers aren't flexable and i wonder how many cycles they can stand before they stress fracture and fail. There is probably some reason the factory never used them and still don't use them even on the Z06.
I am always skeptical of aftermarket parts. Why do retrofit roller lifters fail after 5 or 10 K miles??? Are roller rockers a racing item and not designed to go 100 K miles? If so, then they have no business in a street engine.
The thing that bothers me is that roller rockers aren't flexable and i wonder how many cycles they can stand before they stress fracture and fail. There is probably some reason the factory never used them and still don't use them even on the Z06.
I am always skeptical of aftermarket parts. Why do retrofit roller lifters fail after 5 or 10 K miles??? Are roller rockers a racing item and not designed to go 100 K miles? If so, then they have no business in a street engine.
10-29-2003, 05:43 PM
#108
Melting Slicks
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (PROSOUTH)
The 385 Fastburn will go from 385 to 410 HP on the Dyno by just adding 1:6 ratio rockers. I do realize that this changes them from 1:5 to 1:6, but the majority of the HP comes from cutting the friction. Jim
the majority of the HP gain is because of the change in ratio not friction reduction.
10-29-2003, 06:14 PM
#109
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (turtlevette)
I believe the LS1 and LS6 use cast steel roller rockers.......
10-29-2003, 06:20 PM
#110
Melting Slicks
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Guru_4_hire)
I believe the LS1 and LS6 use cast steel roller rockers.......
Nevermind!
10-29-2003, 06:21 PM
#111
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (turtlevette)
I thought I saw a cutaway LS1 and I thought I saw them with Stampede steel rockers. I think it would be something worth looking into
10-29-2003, 06:24 PM
#112
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Guru_4_hire)
Apparently they are roller around the stud but the front is flat like on a stamped steel rocker arm
[Modified by Guru_4_hire, 6:26 PM 10/29/2003]
10-30-2003, 09:09 AM
#113
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Guru_4_hire)
I'm with ya DEP,,, I used to race SBC Chevies,, way back in the 60's-70's,,,those old parts worked good than & they still do,,,I just picked up a brand new (old) LT1 solid cam still in the tube,,cost about $50 back in 71,,,so that's what I paid for it,,gonna put in in with a rebuild along with a set of "291" or "292" heads if I can find em with acc holes for my AC,,,yep you can get 400 Hp outa these old parts with just a little bit of work without all the expense of rollers, aluminum heads, and real fancy intakes,,just takes a little more work and thinkin,,,I guess everyone forget those old Super Stock days back in the 60's!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah it will have a set of newer stamped rocker arms!!!
[Modified by Smitty's75, 9:13 AM 10/30/2003]
[Modified by Smitty's75, 9:13 AM 10/30/2003]
10-30-2003, 09:18 AM
#114
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (turtlevette)
I believe the LS1 and LS6 use cast steel roller rockers.......
Ok, If thats the case, then i just invalidated my argument.
Nevermind!
Ok, If thats the case, then i just invalidated my argument.
Nevermind!
Jeff
10-30-2003, 09:52 AM
#115
Le Mans Master
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Smitty's75)
Smitty: Now THAT kind of smallblock build I can REALLY like!!! :D
No idea why more folks don't do it the factory way. Lots of good stuff still available for a lot less than fancy big name parts.
I got no problem with a sticker under the hood that says Genuine GM Parts or
GM Performance Parts. I can maybe see changing out to an aftermarket manifold, but if you got the stock Z-28/LT-1 manifold you are REALLY in good shape! VERY high rise and will work great at high RPM. Even higher than some of the aftermarket jobs.
Dep
No idea why more folks don't do it the factory way. Lots of good stuff still available for a lot less than fancy big name parts.
I got no problem with a sticker under the hood that says Genuine GM Parts or
GM Performance Parts. I can maybe see changing out to an aftermarket manifold, but if you got the stock Z-28/LT-1 manifold you are REALLY in good shape! VERY high rise and will work great at high RPM. Even higher than some of the aftermarket jobs.
Dep
10-30-2003, 01:17 PM
#116
Race Director
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Dep)
This thing is now in it`s fourth page. What I have found out, is that there are some very smart people out there. I don`t know if the majority will follow there advice however. :lol: :lol: :party:
10-30-2003, 01:21 PM
#117
Le Mans Master
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Guru_4_hire)
Apparently they are roller around the stud but the front is flat like on a stamped steel rocker arm
[Modified by Guru_4_hire, 6:26 PM 10/29/2003]
Excellent observation Guru! Those BARELY qualify as "roller rockers" in my book!
Dep
10-30-2003, 02:10 PM
#118
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Dep)
Apparently they are roller around the stud but the front is flat like on a stamped steel rocker arm
[Modified by Guru_4_hire, 6:26 PM 10/29/2003]
Excellent observation Guru! Those BARELY qualify as "roller rockers" in my book!
Dep
10-30-2003, 04:13 PM
#119
Le Mans Master
Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Fevre)
Apparently they are roller around the stud but the front is flat like on a stamped steel rocker arm
[Modified by Guru_4_hire, 6:26 PM 10/29/2003]
Excellent observation Guru! Those BARELY qualify as "roller rockers" in my book!
Dep
So then the roller tip ones barely qualify as stamp steel ones? :confused:
It appears roller-tipped stamped rocker arms aren't worth the extra expense either. Since the tip doesn't really "roll", it's like bolting in more expensive stamped non-roller rockers.
I hope someone is taking notes on all this!!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 3:14 PM 10/30/2003]
10-30-2003, 04:20 PM
#120
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Re: Roller rockers....worth it?? (Dep)
The rocker arm world certainly is in flux :)
It appears roller-tipped stamped rocker arms aren't worth the extra expense either. Since the tip doesn't really "roll", it's like bolting in more expensive stamped non-roller rockers.
I hope someone is taking notes on all this!!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 3:14 PM 10/30/2003]
Well we do agree on that! :cheers: