AGVI

Any opinions? I want to be super fast, but I also don't want to compromise street drivability...thanks, Les :chevy

aharte

Everyone's definition of streetable is different. What kinds of things do you
want to avoid?

If you spend enough money, you can do almost anything :jester

AGVI

money isn't the issue, I just want to be able to feel my eyeballs roll into the back of my brain... :lol: I want to avoid the police and only the police... :yesnod: seriously, which block should I use? what's the biggest of the big without NOS, superchargers, or blowers?

BB wowbagger

I would build on a Merlin talldeck block and build my self a 800+Thumper..And a PG to match.9 inch rear with 4 link and rebuild the front end to LeMans specs..maybe :cheers: :cheers:

Rolling Thunder

Talk to Monty. His was for sale at $30K and would be a bargain at that price.

Corey_68

If you want BIG numbers N/A, streetable, and at a usable RPM, then the answer is:

Big Block :reddevil

norvalwilhelm

Corey a big block by itself will not cut it. Sure it feels fast but just stick a 100 horse shot of nitrous of that same bigblock and from then on your bigblock will feel dead with that nitrous. I have driven bigblocks all my life and that is longer then most of you have been alive and until you feel the power of a blower or nitrous you are only fooling yourself into thinking the big block is the answer.\
The old saying that there is no substitute for cubic inches was before the supercharger, blowers turbos came into the scene.
Get a big block but get it some help.
I have owned and street driven a 10.2 second big block on the street but never felt the power until I put a 8-71 on my bigblock.

standup

I saw a '58 Vette that was making low 7 sec passes and was "street legal".....probably producing 1500HP.....and yes it was blown and tubbed.....

......so my point is: How much do you want to muck around with the rest of the drivetrain to get max HP????

It appears that these ZZ4 350 crate engines are a relatively easy swap and will give you 400-500HP.....and that'll knock you back in your seat.....and limit the attention you get from the authorities..... :)

The more HP you make, the more you have to change everything else....cooling, exhaust, ignition, stall converters for your trans and rear tires :) Keeping it between 400-500HP with decent low-mid torque will be a good streeter.....

And don't under estimate the amount of coin you'll need....building up an engine like this....you could probably buy another Vette.....

Les

This depends alot on how well your suspension & rear end are built, what trans/gears you're running, how good your brakes are, & what your skill level is as a driver. An inexperienced driver can easily get into trouble with car control without having alot of power, especially if the car is not set up well to handle & brake.

Assuming that your car is properly set up for big power, the tires become a huge factor. IMHO anything around 500+ HP w/ good low & mid range torque will get you into the area of diminishing returns due to traction problems. My combo is FAR from being as powerful as some of the boys here, but I still have to be very careful w/ the loud pedal or I'm up in smoke. If you read some of the threads here by the guys w/ pumped bigblocks you'll see the same "problem".

Hey I'm not saying it isn't a kick to drive these beasts, just that you need to be realistic about how much power you can actually use on street tires. If you don't mind sacrificing some handling for straight line traction you can always put a set of drag radials on the back- just know that you'll be replacing them alot more frequently than regular tires because they're made w/ soft compounds. Good luck. :cheers:

WA 2 FST

Les, Norval, Corey, and standup all make really good points.

Having owned a 9-sec capable, streetable machine for many years I will agree that everyone's definition of "streetable" is different. I had to de-gear that car a LOT in order to keep it from blowing off the drag radials at 90mph.

Tirespin is cool to a point, as long as you're accelerating through the spin, but once you smoke 'em so much you just sit there... then its just a waste.

Assuming you want a REAL street car, then I would say forget the high-rpm stall converters and sintered iron clutches. You also want something with more than 2 gears (no Powerglide). Thing is to go _really_ fast... these are the types of trannies/tranny combos you'll need.

I concur with Noval about blower/turbo/nitrous. Again, when 95% of the people out there say "street car" they mean they want something with great off-idle response and lots of bottom-end, mid-range TQ...and may be willing to sacrifice some high, high rpm power. The way around this is with a power-adder. :) I'm a big fan of them b/c they allow you to have a docile combination until you hammer the loud pedal.

Again, everyone's definition is different, so you have to make some decisions beforehand...even if $$ is no object. There is not ONE right way to slay this animal.

gdh

so which blower would you put on a 383 stroker a 6-71 or 8-71? also which ones fit under and L-88 hood - would it be a Weiand 144, Vortec, Paxton, Eaton?? sorry for the questions but I am just trying to learn about these and if I buy one would like to keep it under the hood vs the big blower scoop on top. :cheers:


[Modified by gdh, 8:15 PM 7/26/2003]


[Modified by gdh, 8:42 PM 7/26/2003]

The Money Pit

For what it's worth I went 406 smallblock to keep it under the hood,and push around 500hp. I'm still trying to keep it all together.First had cooling issues,then fuel delivery and timing.Now the engine runs like a scalded dog the transmission is the weak link. I suppose the rear will be the next.

As for traction,even with P295 50's,too much peddle will get you no where fast.I've learned the art of launching though,and with the torque curve that will pull like this one,I'd be tough to beat in a light to light contest.

The bottom line is the goal of how much hp can you keep on the street was mine also,and I know I could have built more,but think I'm at the limit now.

A C

It's all according to your budget and your streetability goals. I think Monty got pretty close to the ultimate street car. His made 1200 HP, 1000 ft/lbs of torque, and also got 20 MPG according to him, and idled at under 1000 RPM. Stock body and mostly stock interior too.

Who knows how long the drivetrain parts will hold up? We will just have to wait and see.

In my eyes, streetable means only tuning it up once or twice a summer, not weekly. Streetable also means being able to take it on long trips WITHOUT the trailer.

SmokedTires

Big Blocks can give you gobs of torque without a lot of rpms, twin turbos will help quiet a small block to keep the cops away ;) .

1Bad69

whatever number you want to the rear wheels will do you no good if anytime you put your foot into the tires light up...i think that you need to find a number that atleast you can put the power to the road without melting your tires...what's the point having 600 HP at the wheels if you spin the tires in every gear when you mash it?...

WA 2 FST

I researched this b/c my BB has relatively low compression, which makes running a blower/turbo feasible. For a BB, I could not find a blower setup that would fit under an L88 hood.

I have seen a number of SBs that have a Holley 144 or 174 under the hood.

Me, I'm a big fan of the centrifugal blowers b/c they are easy to tune and they provide power in a very linear fashion. This means less wheelspin down low, but gobs and gobs of HP on the top-end. And once you're rolling and up to speed (say, in a drag race) you're only in your high-rpm powerband anyway. The torque you make at 1500rpm doesn't mean diddly-squat if you're at 4500-7000rpm in a race. :) That's not being disrespectful to the positive displacement blowers. After all, look at what Top Fuel dragsters use. :)

I am not sure if Paxton/Vortech/ATI make a "kit" for a SBC in a Vette. More than likely you'll have to modify some things to make it work.

For me, if I ever decide my '69 BB needs more power, I'm going to juice it. Nitrous is great, too, b/c its only there when you need it. I don't need any more power in 1st or 2nd gear. Maybe once the car is hooked up in 3rd and on up, another 100hp/100tq would be cool, though. :D

turtlevette

in my opinion, a normally aspirated 350 gets too unruley if you go any bigger than the chev 350 horse cam. You gotta have a decient idle to use your car in city traffic.


what does AGVI stand for anyway?




[Modified by turtlevette, 11:35 PM 7/26/2003]

WPEDirect

...weenie...

:leaving:

I had a '96 TransAm with a solid rear axle that put 500+ to the ground, and was very, very streetable. Of course, it tended to raise the 'pucker factor' on occasion.

I rode in a friends 72 El Camino that had a retired Nascar motor in it. Until he hit about 3500rpm, it felt like a Hyundai - very disappointing. But, once he hit that powerband, I think I left an impression of my noggin on his back window. Very bad combination for the street, but really cool braggin rights.

Torque is where it's at for the street. HP don't do diddly squat light to light (unless the lights are in Montana/Wyoming/etc.). One of my street motors (sbc) makes 575hp/530 FT/LB, but my cheeeper BBC makes more torque/less hp and will run circles around it on the street. :crazy:





[Modified by WPEDirect, 10:51 PM 7/26/2003]

turtlevette

why do you think they call me turtle?

BTW someone mentioned ZZ4 as being 400 - 500 hp. nope. its 355. Thats about it. you could go to better heads with the fastburn 385, but start putting in bigger cams and you have a race car.

WA 2 FST

It may make less _peak_ HP, but in order to run circles around the other car, it must make more _average_ HP in the useable rev-range.

If it was all about TQ, we'd be putting turbo-diesels in our cars. :)

But that's semantics. I agree with you. I've seen engines that make great _peak_ HP #s way up high in the rev-range (or even worse, they make peak HP at the rev-limiter, therefore wasting valuable potential) and they do not run the times of like cars with a much more "balanced" HP/TQ curve.

Average HP across the rev-range used while racing is what wins races, and obviously HP is just a function of TQ.