bence13_33

Right now I'm getting to the point where I will need a roll cage for the 'Vette. I'm also concerned with the rear end of my car and the slicks. I've been debating about getting a solid axle car and making it into my drag car. So far I have found one drag car in my area that is affordable and something I would want.
It's a 1977 Camaro but it's made to look like a 1970 Camaro. It does need a paint job. It has no motor or transmission. It already has a full roll cage, fuel cell, gutted interior, tubbed out, narrowed Ford 9" rear end, 4.56 rear gears, full spool, strange axles, rims and slicks. The guy is asking $3,000.

What do you guys think?

I think it would be a great car that could take a lot of abuse. My plan was to throw my motor and tranny in it for now. Then once I get enough money make the motor like Norval's (8-71 blown 454). I already have the full forged rotating assembly for the blower motor.

The disadvantage is that it's not the 'Vette . I've already started making a name for myself around town and at the track about having a "wicked 'Vette".

Any opinions?

WA 2 FST

I'll ask some questions back at ya. ;) I have drag raced a lot over the past 12-14 years, but in the last two I've done less and less (priorities change is all).

Do you want a super-fast street car to go racing on the weekends? Or would you rather have a dedicated drag car?

The street/strip car will have _some_ level of compromise. There no way around it, unless you have a really slow car (which you don't). What counts as a "compromise" is most often in the eyes of the beholder. But, building a car with power that will roast any type of DOT radial (including a drag radial which is marginal at best once you get over 450+rwhp) will mean it will not be nearly as quick on the street as it is at the track.

Building a track-only car allows you to maximize its 1/4 or 1/8 mile (depending on what kind of racing you do) potential. A solid-axle rear will be less maintenance and stronger, you can run a higher stall in the auto trans (auto trans will always be faster unless you get radical like running a Jericho or Lenco stick trans), more rear gear, slicks all the time, skinny front tires all the time, set up the suspension to optimize 60' times, etc.

In the end a track-only car will be more reliable at the track. You just won't drive it around much at all on the street.

I'm not saying a happy medium can't be found. I found it (to my satisfaction at least) in a SBF application I ran for over a decade. But there was a LOT of ET left on the table with that car by my choice. I probably spent more $$ in beefing up certain parts b/c it was a car I wanted to be reliable on the street, than if I'd just made it a track-only car.

If you buy the Camaro, you can always put a decent BB back into the Vette later on (maybe quicker than you think, if you find a good deal).

As to which car makes a better drag-oriented car... I cannot say b/c my experience is based upon running late-model cars.

Matt Gruber

my 72 has a chrome 4 pt. roll bar, while not really legal a lot of tracks would let it run. my vote is to forget the camaro because it needs a paint job. if it looked ready to run it would be tempting.

bence13_33

The thing is that my uncle has the capability to paint it for me. He does a pretty good job too. He has painted his '72 SS454 Chevelle and his '64 Corvette. It's not an award winning show quality job, but all I would have to do is pay for the paint and he'd spray it for me. So painting it is no big deal. My buddy also paints cars and would cut me a great deal...although he'd probably charge me labor whereas my uncle wouldn't.

Flareside

Shane, didn't that Vette belong to your father before you? That alone would keep me from cutting it up to build a drag car. It's an heirloom now! What will your kids think about you doing that to Grandpa's car? :lol:

Heck, you can get that whole Camaro for what just a straight axle for the Vette will cost ya'. Sounds like a no-brainer to me, although you'll want a 2 car garage to house them next...

Matt Gruber

You have to do what YOU want. 30 years from now you can look back and be proud of yourself.
30 years ago i was turbocharging and EVERBODY thought i was NUTS. But now when i look back, it's an amazing enough a story to make a good movie. BUT, at the time, i had no idea. i was totally obsessed.
Now, me, i'd bend the rules as much as the track would take. My goal would be a street tire 76 that runs as close as possible to 125- 130 mph, but turns ONLY 12.01 so it is legal. And make it more a driver in the process.
But, like i said, get ideas, then come up with your own plan. :cheers:

427Hotrod

Well, I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions here, so here's another one.

I went through many, many cars over the years. Raced a lot. For me, I ALWAYS got the most enjoymnet from a serious street car. Loading up a race car and taking to the track can be a PITA. It all depends. For sure you can eliminate many compromises by building a dedicated race gas race car. And go faster.

I really enjoy having a car that is faster than it is supposed to be by looking at it. And doing it with a mid year or a C-1 or a C-3 is even more special because you don't see many of them. How much notoriety will you get from having a fast '77 Camaro??? Yaaawwnnnnnn..........

I finally settled down and built a really nice '68 SS/RS Camaro. It was fast (9's), won car shows and was streetable enough to drive cross country to several of the old Car Craft Street Machine Nationals and the first NMCA races. And when I wanted to go riding around and have a "power ride" all I had to do was back it out of the garage and go play. Didn't matter if it was midnight...can't do that with a race car.

This is my 3rd midyear Vette. I realized that the car I always loved the most was a Vette. So I found the one I have now and have embarked on something new every year I've owned it. And it just keeps getting better. I really doubt you wil ever see it leave my hands.

As I look back at the other Vettes and other cars I poured money in, it just boggles the mind to think what a neat car I could have now if all that had been put into just one. I tell everyone this is a hobby and you need to spend your time and money on THE car you love.

You have a different car than everyone else. It's a 4 speed big block Vette. That is not something folks see at the track very often. I always get lots of comments when folks see me racing. I always enjoy the conversation.

I really think you should continue to develop what you have. So far the rear is holding, and we all know it can be made to hold lots of HP. Get to be friends with someone that is a good machinist and you could build your own 12 bolt centersection. Or save up and get Tom's stuff. I think there are even some near bolt in 9" deals out there now so you could install a solid axle without cutting up car. The cage is not that big of a deal, especially in a coupe. The Jeg's one's I see look like they fit very nice an don't detract from the car at all. You can leave out sidebars for street driving. A $3000 rolling chassis is going to cost LOTS of money by the time you get it finished.

If I was going to buy a dedicated race car, I'd build a lightweight roadster of some sort and have fun. Otherwise, I'll just stay with fun street cars!!

A '77 Camaro????? JEEEEEEZZZ....quick someone help us....we're losing him!!!


JIM

Crash Dummy

Shane,

I can't remember right off hand... are you running a 4-speed or 350/400 in the vette right now. If it's a 4-speed and that's what you are thinking about dropping into a pure drag strip doorslammer, STOP now! It's a complete waste of time and you are going to nuke parts.

If you can get some pics of the Camaro, post them. I'll gladly give you a list of everything that I can think of that you are going to have to do to finish it. What do you mean by *gutted* in the interior? Seats gone? Doors cut out to take weight out? Dash gone? Floorboard gone? Trunk bottom gone? I had a chrome moly chassis doorslammer built for me back in the early '90's and I might be able to talk you out of it. :lol:

Matt Gruber

i sure agree with 427hotrod!
.
i owned an orange flame 76, and at 4 way stops i ALWAYS got waved on. My brother-in-law had one too, when he traded it on a then new '80 WHITE, he became invisable!He hated it and sold it.
Odds are no other car will ever turn heads like that flame orange c3. :cool:

bence13_33

Joe:
Yes the car did belong to my father before I purchased it from him...that makes it a one owner Corvette. I don't plan on ever getting rid of it, so it's value down the road is really irrelevant. How's that 540 coming along?

Jim:
You made me realize how much I enjoy driving the 'Vette. I have decided that when the time comes, I will be caging my car. I guess every once and a while I need slapped across the face to make me remember my goals :) . You also made me realize that my car has a lot of potential. Seeing as how this is the only car I have ever "poured money" into it will be nice to stick with it. I figure I'm already on the verge of breaking into the 11s, if I put a little into to it every year like you said the sky's the limit. Thanks Jim :) . Oh and don't think for a second that I wouldn't have driven that Camaro on the street! Of course I'd have to watch the turns with the spool. By the way how are you coming along with the '67? Do you have that Dana rear end under it yet?

bgrice:
I'm running a 4 speed with a 454 big block. Has turned a best of 12.14 @ 117.72MPH .

Matt:
That's why I love my Corvette. It gets a lot of attention everywhere I go...even at the track. My car sticks out like a sore thumb when surrounded by Mustangs galor at the track.

WA 2 FST

Glad you're gonna keep it. I have always had the same type of goals as Jim...very fast street cars are a LOT more fun to _me_ than having a strip-only car that is only driven on and off a trailer and then down the 1/4 mile. But there are guys (and I didn't know where you stood) who feel like its a waste of $$, time, and its a compromise to run a REAL street car that sees strip action, too.

For instance, to me running a stick trans is 1000x more fun on the street, but once you start running low-11s in just about any car, the auto will be quicker. However, I get to enjoy the car the 99% of the time its not going down a 1/4 mile strip...and I don't care if I lose some ET-potential shifting gears.

So its all in your priorities. I would agree that having a bad-**** C3 that runs strong is a lot more appealing than a '77 Camaro, no matter what it has in it.

Good luck on getting into the 11s this year! :)
:seeya

Flareside

If you're going to keep it a real street car, I think working with one car is a good idea, since your money will go further. I though you were talking more along the lines of converting the Vette into a trailered track car. There are other cars that deserve that fate, not one-owner Vettes! :D

Uh, sloooooooowly... Between the new kitchen and new Motorcross bike that I bought this year, there's no money left for the Vette! :cry The '79 that I owned for a few months taught me a bunch of stuff about what I want out of a car, and somewhat rewrote my plans. I loved the way it steered, so I sold the Steeroids kit and bought a stock BB power steering setup from Bill (69ttop502). No need for rack and pinion here, just a tight stock system, new Flaming River 12:1 steering box, and good tires. I learned that the Richmond 6-speed (or 5-speed) isn't the transmission for me, just a personal preference. The ’79 had 4.11 gears and a 3.01 first gear, and I didn’t like how it ran out of rpm so quickly. Most of my driving is for fun on country type roads, so a massive launch isn’t as important as a long, strong pull in each gear. I did lots of research about EFI, found that I’d have to make some modifications that I couldn’t live with, and decided that it wasn't right for the '68. I sold most of the EFI stuff and starting piecing together a new rectangular port 3x2 (tripower) intake system. I’m also in the process of assembling a Muncie 4-speed with heavy duty parts from AutoGear (SuperCase, iron midplate, wide-ratio M22 gearset, etc.) and a 3.08 rear to go with it. With a little luck, everything will be ready by the fall. Lots going on, just haven’t posted much about it here lately.

WA 2 FST

Joe,

That tri-power intake setup looks very cool! :)

Also, I can understand why you wouldn't like a 3.01 1st gear with a 4.11 rear. That is a LOT of gearing, and probably next to worthless.

Please keep us apprised of what you do.

Flareside

Will do Wes! I've been reading your recent posts with great interest, as I'm still undecided about a cam. I have a new Comp XS292 flat solid for the engine, but I'm still debating putting a hydraulic roller in there and just forgetting about it. I just know that these guys above would rip me relentlessly if I did! :lolg:

WA 2 FST

I just got my Comp cam today. I went with the smaller one, so we'll see. If I need more, I'll chalk it up to a learning experience. I overcammed an engine once before, and for a street car where I want a good broad power-band, I need to take baby steps. It's a significantly larger cam than what I have in there now! ;)

Anyway, mine's a hyd. roller and should make peak HP ~58-5900rpm and I'll shift it ~62-6300. If I get it in there and it makes peak HP at ~5400, then I will yank it and get a bigger one (b/c I'll be leaving too much power on the table). :lol:

I would have gone with a solid if I was wanting to spin the motor to 68-7000rpm.

SmokedTires

Shane, if going for a paint job in a race car, don't go for many coats of paint. Paint adds weight which is an evil in drag racing. Pickup any can of paint and see what the weight on just 1 gallon weighs ;) .

I can't comment on which way to go. I love having the independant rear suspension on my vette, but I've broken it enough to wish I had the reliablity of a solid axle at times too. I sometimes wish I didn't have the desire to drive my vette as hard as I do at times, but it's so darn fun :D !

:cheers:

bence13_33

Wes:
If I had purchased the Camaro it would have been a street car :) . Driving them on the street is half the fun. I think one of the things I enjoy most about the 'Vette is that it's a 4 speed. It's a blast banging gears down the 1/4 mile.

Joe:
I'm really kind of hesitant about putting a roll cage in my car. But I think if it's done right it will look fine. I can still remember when you gave me a hard time about going with the 294S cam.....look at what you're going with :) . I think I'm gonna be stepping up to the 306S sometime in the near future. That 540 should keep you happy for a while right? :D

I love the tri-power setup. The 3.01 1st gear coupled with the 4.11 rear end would give you a 12.37 effective first gear. That's "tractor-like." I remember hearing that you should shoot for around an 11.00 effective first gear. I'm really happy with my T10 4 speed and 4.11 gears...I just wished I had a close ratio M22 instead.

Mike:
Thanks for pointing out the added weight of the paint...it would have never crossed my mind. Come to think of it 1 gallon of paint is pretty heavy. How's your motor coming along?

litevette

I'm with 427Hotrod, I've had lot's of muscle cars, been there done that too. If you still want another, I saw a company selling 69' camaro race rollers for $5000 on ebay. Seems as if you can get one at any time. I know thats more than the 77, but I think most would agree that a 69 is way higher on the cool scale. I don't know your budget nor am I trying to tell you how to spend your money. I'm just saying if you have the extra $, the 69 roller would still keep your reputation around town. Just my 2 centavos!


[Modified by litevette, 12:42 PM 5/22/2003]

norvalwilhelm

Shane I have a 89 mustang with a 355 ,nitrous , caged and slicked. It feels alot solider then the vet and I don't worry about breaking anything. I have a good roll cage, frame connectors and boxed where the lower link goes into the frame. To me it would make a better drag car then the vet.
I too would like to have a fast street car but there are alot of compromises.
I can build nice roll cages and if my vet was a unibody I would have done it years ago but with the removable body it is not easy. Also the vet interior is a little crouded and the bars would just add to this.
I thought you were a student with a girl friend and a dedicated drag car is money and time, both of which you should have little off, being a student and in love.
Shane stick with what you have for now. Going fast is not the be all and end all. I raced alot when I was young and it got me nothing that I can hold today.
Expensive race cars are for old farts like myself who can afford it and have nothing left in life to excite them.
To me Robyne is more exciting then a low ET.
Just my opinion but one learned through going the same route you are now.
Have a nice day Shane.

bloodvette80

YEah, hi bence, jsut checked your profile, might want to change it, it says factory 180BHP. Unless you just want to put a role cage in it for when you go offroading :lolg: