Jvette73

Is there a difference whether the weights are put on the inside or outside of rim? Does the tire balancing machine tell the mechanic which side to put it on? When I had my tires mounted I dont think they removed any of the weights that were already on there. They just added more, and on two of the wheels it looks like they have weights offsetting each other on the oppisite side. I dont see any marks where any of the previous weights were removed. Shouldnt they remove all existing weights before starting? Im chasing a small vibration that may be tire balancing related. I think im gonna get em balanced again. Only this time im gonna remove all existing weights myself before taking them in.

SanDiegoPaul

Depending upon the wheel. First, remember that if weights are put on both sides you'll get a better balance. Don't lose sight of that fact.

If you are protecting the outsides of the rims then you can use weights on the inside only. The guy using the machine has to TELL IT that he intends to use inner weights only! Then yea the machine will tell him where to put the weight.

Another option is tape on weights. On an alloy wheel these can be taped on to the inside of the barrel portion of the rim, close to the outside. This simulates outside weights. That last option will give a BETTER result than just inside weights but not as good a result as good ol' fashioned inner and outer weights combined.

pingdashf

Time for my newbie question of the day... What kind of weights are we talking about here? I know nothing about tire balancing, time to learn ;)

Larry B.

Spin balancing ON the car is by far better than the computer type. This balances the entire rotating assembly. Also... computer balance is only done at about 55 mph. If you have your tires balanced on the computer one day and then re do it the next..the weights will be different. Go figure... I had mine done THREE times and it never was right until I had them done on the car. :auto:


[Modified by silvervetteman, 3:12 PM 4/27/2003]

Jvette73

Paul, thanks for the insight. Im not too concerned whether the weights are on the inside or out. But mainly the fact that none of the previous weights were removed. Only new ones added. I thought it was best to remove them all first and start fresh. I can handle the standard clip on weights since im runnin the stock steel ralleys. The vibration I get is only slightly noticable above 65mph. Below that no vibration. Maybe its something other than tires?

pingdashf, Tires and or rims are not perfectly balanced when made. When you mount a tire on a rim, usually it will be slightly heavier on one side. If you ran them like this, the off set weight will cause vibration or shuddering in the wheels. Tire balancing is a process that corrects this imbalance. The tire/rim is put onto a machine and spun. The machine measures the imbalance and tells the mechanic where on the rim to attach a small weight. Its spun and measured again and repeted untill the machine determines the tire/wheel combo is balanced.

silvervetteman, what type of machine do they use for on car balancing? Is it something like a 4/wheel dyno? I would consider trying that method. I wonder who can do that on my vette around here. How much did it cost for on car balancing? I suppose that whenever you took off a rim after this type of balancing, you would want to mark the lug and rim so the wheel goes back on the exact same way it came off. I have locking lugs. The locking lug is twice as heavy as the regular lugs. I wonder if the weight difference in the locking lug is enough to cause a noticable vibration and higher speeds.

blacksharkL82

paul has it right!
i used to bal with a buble balancer using the 4 weight system. yes there are more accurate methods today. i never had a problem, even at max speed, on or off the track.

Black Snowman

If they didn't removed the weights 1st the "bubba"ed the job. If done right all weights are removed, then the light part of the rim is matched with the heavy part of the tire (they are both normally marked at the factory but it doesn't hurt to recheck). THEN they are ballenced. Unless something is very wrong with the left to right ballence of the assembly there should never be more than 2 weights. One on the inside, one on the outside. If it's real close you can get away with one.

All that assumes a plain-jane computer ballence and not a "static" or "on car" ballence. I'm not familiar with those procedures.

Jvette73

Snowman, its obvious they didnt remove the previous weights. I got weights offsetting weights on the same side of the rim on two of them. i aint gettin balancin from those chumps anymore thats for sure.

thanks for the responses everyone.

Larry B.

When they balance on the car they use a roller like thing to spin the front wheels (one at a time) and there is a balancing ring they put on the rim. for the rear they run the engine with one tire off. You cannot rotate tire after that. A lot is up to the technicians skill to achieve the best balance. Around here there is only one place that does it. He can also "true" the tires so they are perfectly round. (Most tires are not ). It cost about $16 per wheel to true and balance. BEWARE... You will never be happy with computer balance again.


[Modified by silvervetteman, 5:31 PM 4/27/2003]

goinbroke

This really got my attention since I'm going to have four new tires mounted on four new rims. (C-3 Ralleys).......what kind of marks will I look for on the tire and rim for the heavy or light side. Thanks


[Modified by goinbroke, 5:10 PM 4/27/2003]

Black Snowman

On the tire they paint a mark. On the rim I believe it's a small stamping on the rim but it varies from one manufaturer to the next. Some don't do it at all, and some aftermarket make sure theirs are perfectly ballenced.

You could try and find the light side on the rim by using your normal ballencing test just on the rim before the tire is mounted. I'm just passing on second hand knowedge because I never had the guts to dive into a tire change myself ;)

I mainly read up on the process because it costs about $120 more getting motorcycle tires mounted locally than it does for me to order them and put them on myself.

goinbroke

Thanks for the reply, snowman. I'll have a look at the rims and see if I can find a stamp that might signify a light or heavy side. These are original C-3 ralleys with the AZ stamp next to the valve stem.

Chris69

Find a shop with a Hunter 9700. They're great!
http://128.242.141.111/pub/technical/4127T/4127t.cfm

gq82

Most but not all orginal ralley wheels are marked with a B-B sized dot of weld metal in the outside rim area. This dot indicated the high point of the rim. In mounting the tires it is lined up with an orange dot on the tire.

BTW, spin balancing is the only way to go. My tire shop spins them off the car and I've never had a problem with out of balance. Weights can be placed on the front and or back depending on the how far out the wheel/tire combo is.


[Modified by gq82, 10:34 PM 4/27/2003]

Captain Morgan

I had a problem with mine balancing correctly because they were only putting weights on the inside. I didn't want weights on the outside because my wheels are polished and I didn't want to screw it up. The first shop only put weights on the inside of the rim and the balancing still wasn't quite right. I then went to another shop and they pulled the weights off and started fresh. I also had them use the stick on weights as well, and that helped a LOT. No more vibration.

goinbroke

Most but not all orginal ralley wheels are marked with a B-B sized dot of weld metal in the outside rim area. This dot indicated the high point of the rim. In mounting the tires it is lined up with an orange dot on the tire.

BTW, spin balancing is the only way to go. My tire shop spins them off the car and I've never had a problem with out of balance. Weights can be placed on the front and or back depending on the how far out the wheel/tire combo is.


[Modified by gq82, 10:34 PM 4/27/2003][/QUOTE]

Well I'll be dipped in S#&T, I guess they're not completely original any more. These were old used wheels and I remember that two had this nasty looking little knot of weld on them. I'm thinking this is pretty shoddy work here. Sooooo I ground them down flush, then sandblasted, primed, and painted the wheels. :cuss Who woulda thunk it. I suppose spin balancing should still work out fine. Sure appreciate the info.

Black Snowman

Doh! for roundness, not ballence :banghead: Ballence is much easier to correct than out of round.

On motorcycles they do them by weight. The trueness of the tires is kept pretty exact due to their large diameters. I try and tell myself it's details like this that make them cost twice as much and have half the life of car tires :rolleyes: