Coronette

Hello, everyone. I just joined and posted on “intros” but I thought I’d post my specific question here.

Brief background: I’m looking for a 1969-1972 C3 t-top coupe. It’s purely for me to have fun driving around. it’s not to be a daily driver, but I don’t want a project car, either. My husband has no desire to spend his weekends fixing or restoring a C3 (he has his own hobbies).

Condition is key for me, and I’ve been starting test drives.

I can drive a stick shift car, and drove manuals exclusively for about 10 years starting in college (but the manual as a daily driver era ended decades ago), The C3 is, however, a totally different animal than any of the stick shift cars I ever drove (in a good way!). Over the years I’ve found that some manuals are a beast to drive, and others are a dream.

Because I enjoyed driving a stick shift as my exclusive daily driver, I’ve been looking at cars equipped with both types of transmissions. I know manuals are cooler and more fun, you get the full driving experience, etc. On the other hand, an automatic is less taxing. We all know that debate.

I’m certain I’ll find a C3 with a manual that drives like a dream, and an automatic that drives like a dream. I also wouldn’t buy a manual C3 if, after test driving it, I didn’t feel comfortable driving it. I certainly don’t want more car than I can handle, especially one that age.

My question about manual versus auto derives from the relative mechanical and technological (i.e. objective) merits behind the various transmission options, as mated to the various C3 engines.

Setting aside the fun/cool/comfort factors inherent in the manual versus auto debate, are there any mechanical or technological advantages or disadvantages of the various transmission choices? For these 50+ year old vehicles, are some transmissions “better” than others (again, defining quality using an objective metric, whether durability, ease of ability to work on it, performance, etc.). Put another way, have some engine/transmission combinations stood the test of time (or public opinion) better than others?

For instance, assuming stock transmissions (and engines), is there a hierarchy of inherent quality or durability of the transmissions, regardless of what engine configuration it’s mated to, such as 4 speed manual > automatic > 3 speed manual?

Or, do some transmissions simply work better with different engines? So, for example, perhaps the auto has an edge on the base 300hp engine, manual is marginally better on the L36, and manual is far superior on the LS5 or LS6?

How would you rank the transmissions? Are there any engines that you wouldn’t pair with the automatic transmission? Are there any engines that work better with an automatic transmission?

I know I need to actually test drive different configurations and see what works for me. But, this information is helpful because if I’m investigating a car, and it has a particular engine, I have no idea if, for instance, manual and auto both work and perform essentially the same, or if manual or auto ever come out on top with a particular engine.

Of course, this process would be a lot easier if I couldn’t drive stick at all…but where’s the fun in that?

Thanks, everyone!

4-vettes

Well, A good manual car is going to be more expensive than a similar good Auto car. Unless of course you find a really sweet deal.
that said. My manual transmission in my C3 is probably the only part on the car that hasn't been repaired or rebuilt.
I did put in a clutch when the car was 42 years old however.
And that was MUCH cheaper than any automatic trans repair I ever had to have done on any car.
Yes I do all my own work. Until it comes to paint or automatic transmissions.
Auto transmissions are a mystery to me.
And expensive to have done.

OzzyTom

It really does come back to you as to what you want from the car.

I assume you are not looking at any competitive use of the car, so any of the original stock combinations of trans and motor will be fine.

Another thing you should be considering is the diff ratio in your selection.
Having a 300 horse auto 350 with a 3.08 diff ratio (which was the standard ratio) will be a good tourer, but it won't really jump off the line.
If however, the same auto had a 3.55 ratio, it would accelerate a lot better... but would rev higher on the freeway so will be noisier and use more fuel.
Lots of compromises to deal with.

I wanted a manual when I was looking for my corvette.
I ended up buying an auto as the car was in great shape, and (being in Australia) I didn't have a lot of chrome bumper Corvettes to choose from in 1996.
After 10 years I replaced the auto with a 5 speed overdrive manual, with a 3.7 diff ratio, and it completely changed the character of the car.

tom

Bikespace

I have one of each. To me, my manual 80 is about a million times more fun to drive. The TH350 in the 79, with the stock torque converter, really kills the experience.

You will pay a premium for a manual, though they were a lot more common in chrome-bumper cars. If I were looking for a car to restomod, I wouldn't be fazed by manual converting a really nice auto. You may end up well ahead, with a modern 5 or 6 speed manual (like you are used to), vs. a clunky 4-speed.

Drive a few, and see what you like. The right car will speak to you, whichever it is.

Also, do yourself a favor, and read down to post 107 of this thread, and have a look at what to look for when buying a used C3.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...orvette-6.html

derekderek

there were people on here had a manual car for 40 years. then paid to have it converted to automatic because their knees were too old for this ****. that clutch is heavier than whatever your daily driver had. and you are not as young. and planning on getting older, i assume. either way, try to find one with an overdrive trans in it.

Pale Roader

How far is Virginia to Vancouver BC, and can you bring your own tools? I'll buy the beer...

Pale Roader

Absolutely get the stick. I wanted a steel bumper coupe with a manual, but it was out ov my price range, so i bought the auto. I regret that now. The premium you pay for the 4-speed is less than the cost ov the conversion (and thats IF you do it all yourself). So... because i was broke... i'll end up spending more money. Gotta love that. If you're not broke, dont make this mistake.

You can pretty much tailor an old car manual to your driving tastes/capacity. I've had 340 4-speed cars (Mopar) that were a dream to drive, and another that felt like a goddamn race car. Both were stock engines.

Manuals have many advantages; they suck far less power from the engine to turn (so, more HP), they're pretty bombproof (the Muncies, 68-74 anyways), they're lighter, they're easier to understand, they're more valuable, they get better mileage, and well... that one last, tiny little detail... THEY'RE MORE FUN. A 4-speed is pretty much the same to re and re as an auto, but to rebuild the auto requires some advanced voodoo knowledge, rare spell components, and a strong grasp ov Zoroastrian astrology. That said, get a good manual, and you'll never have to rebuild it. There are guys here with high HP 50 year old cars that have never had the 4-speed open.

In the years you're looking for, you're only gonna find the Muncie 4-speed anyways, so dont worry about the slightly less solid T10 or others. The Muncie will take what you throw at it. Clutch/flywheel/powertrain? Well... that all depends on how you drive it. I know guys that do brake jobs every year. I've done ONE... in my 30+ years ov driving.

If you want overdrive, the T5 will work behind a mild smallblock. The T56 6-speed will take everything else (but involves far more to swap, and weighs more). Anything else and you're spending real money...

The final point... a chick driving a C3 with a stick would be absolutely bad ***. Do it.

Torqued Off

There is no doubt that a manual transmission is the ONLY way I would own a Corvette. I absolutely love the factory 4-speed shifter feel, and would not have it any other way. It takes what would be boring, and makes it fun. Driving my 77, with 406 SBC torque, factory 4-speed, and improved suspension proved to me that there is a massive difference in fun factor, compared to ANYTHING else I have ever driven. Its blatant, obvious, in your face, and ever present. Nothing tops it for me.

stingr69

Todays C3 enthusiasts are paying more for stick shift cars because they are more fun to drive that way. I suspect this will be true in the future.

The transmission choice is dictated by the buyers needs. There was never a bad choice, just a different choice.

67:72

The transmission choices of the day (Muncie 4-speed, TurboHydramatic 350/400) are stout, long-lasting transmissions which the engineers did a good job spec'ing for Corvettes. Neither one has any weak spots due to design mismatch, so the cars you encounter are equal in that sense. Some upper HP or high revving engines were not offered with an automatic due to operational constraints - other options, like A/C, were likewise limited for these engines. If you visit the GM Heritage website, you can look at each year and the option combinations available in the sales brochures (not always accurate) and the vehicle information kits (more likely accurate). The Corvette Story is another site that's handy to keep bookmarked for comparing year-to-year.

I have a C2 427/390 w/4-speed and a C3 454 LS-5 with TH400 automatic (and am 60 years old). Both cars are fun to drive but the 4-speed is definitely more tiring in stop light traffic. Both have a huge amount of get-up-and-go - even with their 3.08 rear axles. They won't take on a modern Corvette but they are a hoot to drive and are definitely attention getting. As derekderek said, judge your physical abilities now and in the future. The TH400 is definitely a more relaxing transmission to drive.

leigh1322

Here is one on BAT currently for sale. only 2 hours left. Pgh, PA.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...t-corvette-85/
72 4 spd, no AC, base motor, rebuilt 27 yrs years ago into a sort of L46. I would guess it would go for low to mid 20s.
The key points are the body looks straight, the paint is kinda fresh, and the frame is not rusted. Has non stock hood & shifter for a base car.
It's a pretty good example, cleaner than most, of a good driver, and what you may need to pay, while avoiding the biggest pitfalls like rust & paint.
It has just enough mods to make it not too appealing for the 100% correct customers. Making it a decent buy for a driver.
And they will ALL need some work, just depends on how much.

Cmurray79

I ask, do you like going fast? Do you want to drive fast in this car? Are you going to hop on a freeway onramp just to have the rush of going through the gears and putting your foot to the floor? If yes, buy a manual. If your going to occasionally/often give it the beans, the manual adds so much to the experience. If not, theres no reason youd be upset with an automatic. Youll still be able to pass people with good speed, and youll feel that torque come in. I drive my manual car every day the sun is out, and it can be a labor to crawl in traffic.

ddawson

I like that 72.

ctmccloskey

Being "New" to Corvettes I would start looking in your area for a Good Corvette Restoration Shop that you can have go through the potential cars you are looking at. This would keep you from buying a lemon or a poor condition Corvette as you would have some people with experience looking at them mechanically. The option of a Corvette shop could be replaced with finding a local chapter of the NCRS (National Corvette Restoration Society) and going to one or more of their local meetings. These people love seeing new Blood coming into the Hobby and are frequently very friendly as well. I have met several people in the northern Virginia that are members of the NCRS including women who have their own Corvettes. This is a good option for someone looking as you will hear lots of opinions on the various years of Corvettes. They are frequently people who have original "Numbers matching" cars and have them "certified" to being all original to the year of being made and in the condition. There are a lot of Corvette clubs around the country as well who could help you select the best Corvette for you. This would be to help you not over-pay for a specific Corvette.

Depending on your location there are several BIG Corvette shows here in the United States. I live in Northern Virginia and frequently go to Corvettes@Carlisle which is held the third weekend of August every year up in Carlisle PA. It is 103 miles from my door to the fairgrounds which is an easy ride and the shows are great. There are plenty of Corvettes (Hundreds) for sale at the Corvettes@Carlisle event for you to go through looking for that special Corvette. If you want to spend more than a day looking it is good to find a hotel room and spend the night allowing you to be fresh and wide awake while looking around. Hotels nearby are frequently booked up a year ahead so you might have to get creative in finding something "Close".

My wife and I bought our first Corvette back in 1991 a few months after getting married. It was sitting at a Gas station after being pulled from a barn where it had sat for years. It had a broken Exhaust manifold and a few minor issues that I was able to fix. The Corvette was our first and neither of us knew "anything" about them so we consulted my cousin's Husband who had a few over the years. We bought the Corvette and have had it for 31 plus years and it has been a part of the family ever since. After our kids showed up we went to Carlisle one year and my wife decide she wanted a Corvette for her and our daughter. They chose a Silver 1988 C4 Coupe with an automatic and air conditioning. It is a nice car just a newer version with a fuel injected engine. Our 1988 was able to break into the 30 MPG range on flat roads with the AC on and a CD playing. This allowed us to go to Carlisle in our "His and Hers" Corvettes and was fun for the family. We would go to Carlisle and spend two or three days checking out all the Corvettes and making long term friendships with others in this hobby.

When looking at early C3's you will hear "Numbers Matching" phrase used often when a person is selling or describing a particular Corvette. This used to be very important as the more collectible Corvettes still had their original engine and transmission which shared the last digits in the vehicles serial number. Today when I hear the people say it and it doesn't mean as much as the Corvette world is Full of people who have the engine rebuilt and then re-stamp the engine numbers with the vehicles serial numbers. It is done to increase the value of the Corvette and in most cases it would take a very experienced Corvette owner or mechanic to identify the fake cars. This is why I would seek out someone with more experience to help you verify the Corvette you like is real or not. My car did not have a numbers matching engine when I bought it and I had no idea what that meant back then.

Our first Corvette was a 1968 Corvette Convertible with a four speed and a 427 in it. It was a nice car but took some work to make it better for driving often. The older C3's like my 1968 are nice but have a lot of "One Year" issues. Our doors have a button you need to push to get into the Car. That was something unique to the C3's. When I first went to Carlisle I was shocked at the "disrespect" a Lot of Corvette people had for the 1968 model Corvettes. Our bodies have 1/4" gaps between panels where the later 1969 on up C3's had 1/8" gaps and this made them less desirable back then and to some even now. I had never noticed this until it was pointed out to me. Our car was made in October of 1967 and is considered an Early 1968 Corvette. Having the 427 is considered a plus because everybody likes the power and torque the big blocks make. In 1968 you could find a 327 or a 427 under the hood. The 327's were either 300 hp or 350 hp and is a great engine. The 427's came in 390 hp, 400 hp, 435 hp and 430hp variations. The base Corvette in 1968 came with a 3 speed manual transmission instead of a four speed or an automatic. The 1968 Models are still a bit lower in price than what some people think they 1969 and later models are worth. This is changing now that the number of Corvettes with Chrome bumpers is fixed and there are fewer each year do to people crashing them. Our 1968 is worth a whole lot more than what we paid for it back in 1991 and the value will continue to climb. It is kind of like a 401K that you can drive and enjoy.

I wish you the very best in finding the perfect Corvette for you. Knowing "what you want" is half the battle. Just start locating the good restoration shops near you. The one nearest to us is Tony's Corvettes and he is in Gaithersburg MD and he and his staff are Absolutely Amazing. They can look at the head of the bolt and tell you if it came on the car or not. They KNOW the various years and what to look for damage wise. But they could also help ensure you buy a Corvette worth owning. Just be very careful as there are plenty of Corvettes that you need to be wary of, just because they may look beautiful they could easily turn into a money pit. My daughter sat me down a couple years ago and had a serious talk with Dad, She wants my 1968 Corvette when I am no longer able to use it. I am planning on giving it to her and her husband when that time comes. It will stay in the family and continue to provide fun and memories for her and her future family.

Good Luck!
Chris

Coronette

Thank you, everyone. These responses are all super-helpful responses, and have given me a lot of good ideas and leads for research. I greatly appreciate the time everyone took to respond and provide advice.

As indicated, the purpose of buying a C3 is to have fun with it, as it is. A manual transmission is a huge part of that. I went to college and graduate school in Los Angeles and yes, I did actually enjoy driving, just for the sake of driving, on Sunset Boulevard, from the Strip west to the ocean, with the sunroof open to catch the rays, shifting my 5-speed around and through all of the curves on the famous road.

Everyone’s suggestions here convinced me to initially focus on buying a manual transmission C3 (unless I find an utterly amazing one with an automatic). Despite their age, these cars have a lot more power than my 5-speed did. If it turns out that shifting detracts from my enjoyment, and I just can’t find a manual that’s fun to drive (as unlikely as that seems) then I’ll turn to looking at automatics. I just didn’t want to limit my search too much at the outset. I also didn’t know which engine/transmission combinations worked the best.

Plus, there’s the joke about a stick shift being the “anti-Millennial theft device”…a manual transmission might force valet parkers to keep my car up front and undriven!

I do enjoy driving fast when the road and traffic conditions don’t make it unsafe to do so (my daily driver is an AMG MBZ) BUT I also recognize the hazards in driving a fiberglass body 50+ year old car at high speeds. That doesn’t mean that I’ll confine a Corvette to the slow lane of the freeway, but I do always pay attention to how a car feels at a given speed, and don’t go faster than seems safe.

I also appreciate the comments about the 1968. It’s actually my birth year, so it has that appeal. I’ve heard so many stories about that first year C3 model that it makes me, a totally vintage car novice (unlike the experienced vintage car owners here), wary about getting a car with issues I can’t handle. But, of course, so many of these cars have been modified and restored that if there is a 1968 that fits the bill, I’ll go with that.

Again, many thanks! I’m truly a novice, I know my mechanical skills are essentially zero, and am willing to listen and be patient.

Coronette

Thank you, everyone! I appreciate the thoughtful and informative responses, and they are all definitely helpful in my research.

As indicated, the whole point of the C3 is to have fun with it. No doubt, driving a manual adds to that enjoyment of driving, and I did enjoy driving my 5-speeds. I know there are so many engine/transmission configurations that I wasn’t sure where to start, or if some have advantages over others. If I have an opportunity to get an amazing car with an automatic, I’ll do that, but absent that I’ll focus on manual transmission C3s. No doubt I can find some that I enjoy driving.

There’s also something to be said for what’s been (cheekily) called a “Millennial anti-theft device.” With fewer “kids these days” driving a stick shift, a manual C3 might cause the valet parking guys to leave my car up front and not drive it around!

I understand the cost issue with the different transmissions; I recognize I’m already going to pay somewhat of a premium by focusing on these model years in the condition that I want it to be. A retired friend recently bought an ‘81 that he’s restoring himself, and I know he paid far less for his project car than I’m anticipating paying for a great condition car. I’m also not a purist on restorations and originality, which, I think, broadens the search as well.

I do drive fast, when the road, weather, and traffic conditions permit. My daily driver is an MBZ AMG, but it also has the latest safety features that these 50+ year old fiberglass body cars don’t have. No matter what I’m driving, I am also mindful of how a particular vehicle feels at higher speeds. So, that doesn’t mean I’d be driving a Corvette in the slow lane of the freeway, but I also know I’m going to get a feel for how the car handles and responds at higher speeds, and (I hope) not go faster than what feels safe for a car that age.

As for the 1968, it is my birth year, so that’s appealing. Again, though, as a total novice to classic cars, I’ve heard enough about the first year of the C3 that I’m concerned about getting a car with issues that are beyond my abilities to deal with. Yet, I also recognize that so many of these early C3s have been modified and restored, so if I have an opportunity to get an amazing 1968 that checks all of the right boxes, I wouldn’t rule it out.

I’ve been given so much helpful information here from all of you, and will definitely keep researching. Again, I greatly appreciate all of the thoughtful responses.

4-vettes

Cheers young lady! good luck with your search!

Cmurray79

and when it comes to what engine to look for, its pretty easy. 68-72 cars will be the fastest. The small blocks of that era are great, even bone stock. Big blocks offer incredible torque at low rpms. 75 is when hp falls off a cliff. Only two small blocks offered, 165 and 205 hp. Every year after the hp rises by year with both engine options until 79 (190 and 225). In 80-82 i believe there was only 1 engine option, still slow but not the slowest. (Also a few easy mods can put some pep into the step of any of the later year cars).

Enjoy shopping

iokepakai

Manual trans for sure! My car started off life as an auto ,swapped in a Richmond 6spd.More gears more fun! Search for a 5 or 6 spd conversion or even an LS resto mod.That way the work is done and it drives sweet.
I've been upgrading mine since 2007 ,still not finished yet.Is it ever ! Alohas !

Coronette

Thanks! Manual it is!

No, it’s never “done.” My house was built in 1929, I’ve owned it for a quarter century, and it’s still not done! I love “old stuff.”