Flareside

I've had the car for a few weeks now, and the initial excitement has worn off. Here are a few things that I've noticed so far.

Things I like:

1. Black paint! The car is really sharp looking in the sun with Zaino'd black paint and chrome wheels. Just don't get too close, because black paint is never as flawless as you'd like it on a 24 year old car.

2. Power steering. This is one option that I have to add to my '68. The car is just sooo much nicer to drive. The '79 also holds turns much better than the '68 ever has, although that may be primarily due to the "too big" tires on the '79. It has 275/50/15 in front, and 295/50/15 out back. Unfortunately, the '79 doesn't go down the highway like my '68 does. The '79 darts around with every change in the pavement. Haven't quite figured this one out yet, but I do know that the tie rods and ball joints are tight. At least I know this problem is correctable, because the '68 is rock steady. I also like the power brakes, but not enough to add them to the '68.

3. The '79 leather steering wheel. The huge '68 wheel is like driving a bus in comparison. Tilt/telescopic steering also makes for a much more confortable fit.

4. The coupe body. You can really feel the increased body stiffness from the t-tops. The new car doesn't have nearly as many rattles as the '68, and I think this also contributes to the increased turning ability.

5. Seats. The '79 high back seats are very comfortable, and the higher up seating position is an improvement. It doesn't hurt that the '79 drivers seat is power either.

6. Power windows and locks. Nice, but not really necessary.

7. An aftermarket Kenwood stereo! It's nice to be able to hear the radio for a change :)

8. Line lock. I don't know if it really helps at the track or not, but it's a blast to play with in empty parking lots. :lol:

9. 40 lb. Hays steel flywheel. Everyone around here seems to be high on aluminum flywheels, but I LOVE a heavy steel one. Starting out from a stop in first or second is smoother, and every shift is smoother. With 11:1 compression, the darn engine hits the rev limiter faster than I can shift anyway...

Things I don't like: This is where I get in trouble...

1. Richmond 6-speed transmission. IMO, this is at least one more gear than I need on the street, and the ratios are too close together for use with a strong engine that has a wide torque range. I'm simply shifting more than I want or need to be. For my driving style, a wide-ratio box would be much better. I also had reservations about the noise that these Richmonds make, but I like it! It makes a nice high performance sound without being annoying. 6th gear on the highway is dead quiet.

2. The Long Engineering shifter. This shifter looks like a piece of finely crafted metal artwork, but in real life it's not as good as it could be. Maybe mine needs work? I don't know yet. I was under the car, and everything looks correctly adjusted and tight. It's very tough to hit the shifts with any consistency at high rpm. More often than not, I'll go from 2 to 5 or from 3 to 6 unintentionally. I've read all the posts in the archive about these shifter problems, and I plan to remove and inspect it soon (but the fact that those problem threads even exist gives me a bad feeling about it).

3. The 406 small block. Frankly, for the money that was spent on this engine, I hoped it would scare me to death ;) It doesn't. I'm just glad that somebody else spent the big money! With mid 12 second timeslips, the car is certainly fast, but reality is that my 2 full second slower '68 feels just as fast cruising around. For me, the important power is made between 1000 and 4500 rpms. Horsepower peaks above 6000 are great for adding a cool timeslip and dyno numbers to your signature, but for real street driving low rpm torque is king. I envision my 540 under the hood in the near future ;)

4. The Auburn 4.11 rear. 4.11s are just too low for street driving. First gear is done so fast that I can't keep up with it. Combine this with the inaccurate shifter, and it's a good thing I have an MSD rev limiter! The Auburn posi seems to work just as well as a GM unit.

5. Flowmaster 40 series mufflers: These things are just rude. They sound great at idle, but driving down the road is a whole different thing. They are super loud, and they resonate horribly at any steady rpm. When the 406 comes on the cam around 3000 rpms or so, I sound like a ricer... :mad

6. T-top squeaks and creaks. How the heck do you get rid of this?

7. Hooker's ceramic header coating. This stuff is flaking off all over my garage...

The ultimate combo for me is a wide ratio 5-speed transmission (but not a Ford tranny! :lol:), low rear gear ratio for decent highway running, and a big block with killer low end torque. This is where I'm going with my car very soon. Even with these shortcomings, this car is fun to drive. It just needs a few changes to better suit its new owner.

-Joe


[Modified by Flareside, 11:20 AM 11/13/2002]

Alwyn678

I figured the 6 speed would be your Favorite option>>>>>>>>>>Wow how could you sound like a ricer.....That is whacked.....My flowmaster 40's sound incredible

Fevre

I'll take the 400 and 6 speed off your hands for a small fee. :D

BTW do you skip gears when shifting? Seems like the obvious thing to do when using a gear box that has too many gears.


[Modified by Fevre, 10:19 AM 11/13/2002]

81Vette_by_eric

Nice review. Nicer car. If you don't want the richmond i'd be happy to take it off your hands.

:chevy

Alwyn678

:yesnod: :yesnod:

Flareside

Alwyn678, I guess "ricer" might not be a totally accurate description of the sound. When the engine gets to around 3000 rpms, the exhaust tone rises a few octaves into a whole 'nother sound that could never be described as the "deep" sound that I prefer. Everyone else loves the Flowmaster sound, so I'm pretty sure that I'm just weird.

Fevre, I do skip shifts all the time in both cars. Unfortunately, skipping shifts with the 406 results in it falling well out of its torque curve. The 427 does much better in this regard.

81Vette_by_eric, pick it up when you're ready :cheers:


[Modified by Flareside, 11:34 AM 11/13/2002]

PRNDL

Interesting picture you've painted Joe! :lol: Doing stationery burnouts in parking lots, bombing around the neighborhood bouncing off the rev limiter, blasting the neighbors with hose too-loud flowmasters, missing shift after shift!! :lol: Neighbors must love you!!! :) Have you tried starting out in 2nd gear? I mean, like, on purpose? :lol: MJ

Flareside

Mark, there is more truth in that than you know... :crazy:

Starting off in second isn't great. My second gear ratio is 1.88, in comparision to your 2.52 first gear. My M21 has a 2.20 first gear, and I don't really like that either. Basically, I want YOUR car :lol:

gkull

I'm lazy and skip gears if I'm just tooling around. 1-2-4 1-3-5 2-3-5. My ZF-6 was much more positive gear engaugement than the only time I got to drive a ROD-6. I could see that it was very easy to miss shift unless you really think about it.

If your T-Tops are loose just get new rubber.

78-79 have the heaviest frame ever put in a Vette. Your big tires have something to do with how it darts around. To help correct this get an alignment done with as much Caster as possible. Like 3.5 degrees and your toe to .1 or so.

I forgot to add - Maybe you need to install the 6500 limiter. You would hit it less often ;)


[Modified by gkull, 11:07 AM 11/13/2002]

adamdinat

I just bought a 79 as well. I have noticed the darting around on my car too. Let me know if you like the alignment advice on the camber.

I can see why you would not like the 6 speed. I have the close ratio 4 speed and stock rear end. I would love a 5 speed since I am always trying to shift there anyway. Taching 3500 on a highway cruise is a little much. With the close ratio the pull is not as dramatic from gear to gear. Everything rattle in my car so I have not gotten down to the t top noises yet.

LakotasRose

The oversized tires you have could be alot of the problem with the car ''darting''.... know that my '79 tends to do that...but the 315s on the back probably aren't helping either! :lol:

and I agree with getting an alignment and also getting the camber set properly..you will find a BIG difference in how the car handles the ruts in the road!!

page62

My car was darting really (and I mean REALLY) bad the other day. So before I started tearing apart the front end, I checked the air pressure -- 22 psi in 3 tires, and 15 in the right rear. A few minutes with a compressor, and the car is back to normal -- it still darts some, but I expect it...

Lessons:
1. The aluminum rims do allow for very gradual air loss.
2. The cooler weather means you now have lower "cold" PSI
3. I need to check my tires once in a while :smash:

This, of course, may not be your problem at all...

gkull

Another thing to look at is: Your steering box might have twin ratios. You can change them from a very fast lock to lock to the grandma touring setting.

I can't verify or find out any info from the trivia buffs about what years or option packages came with the changable ratio steering. Someone once told me that it was 80 and later. But my 79 has it.

Fevre

It's not the steering box it is actually a placement of two pins of the linkage into a diff receiving holes. I can't remember the correct part names but I do remember my manual saying NOT to use the quicker ratio with power sterring do to interference.

groovyjay

Great reading Joe, must be one of the first I've seen in here like this. It must be the best thing to have two different C3 parked in the stable. One big Block and one small block. One Coupe, one 'Vert. You can really tell the difference between the handling etc. In the end you just take the good stuff you like on both cars and build two dream Vettes! :yesnod:

[QUOTE]Things I like:

1. Black paint! The car is really sharp looking in the sun with Zaino'd black paint and chrome wheels. Just don't get too close, because black paint is never as flawless as you'd like it on a 24 year old car.

That's good to hear, I'm getting mine painted black now and your car really looks sharp in black with chrome wheels! Black paint doesn't forgive anything, it takes lot of work to keep it clean, but hey that is one part of the hobby.

2. Power steering. This is one option that I have to add to my '68. The car is just sooo much nicer to drive. The '79 also holds turns much better than the '68 ever has, although that may be primarily due to the "too big" tires on the '79. It has 275/50/15 in front, and 295/50/15 out back. Unfortunately, the '79 doesn't go down the highway like my '68 does. The '79 darts around with every change in the pavement. Haven't quite figured this one out yet, but I do know that the tie rods and ball joints are tight. At least I know this problem is correctable, because the '68 is rock steady. I also like the power brakes, but not enough to add them to the '68.

the power steering is the way to go, I have one driven my 779 with the PS hooked off and it really was a nightmare, those big 255 in front are real pita to turn, say in a tight parking lot.

3. The '79 leather steering wheel. The huge '68 wheel is like driving a bus in comparison. Tilt/telescopic steering also makes for a much more confortable fit.

I really like the feel on the steering wheel too, I drove a mid year vette last summer and with the thin steering wheel it had was, like you said, driving a bus.

4. The coupe body. You can really feel the increased body stiffness from the t-tops. The new car doesn't have nearly as many rattles as the '68, and I think this also contributes to the increased turning ability.

That is very true, convertibles tend to be more softer than coupes and in fast cornering you really can use that extra stiffness the coupe offeres. There's already too many soft spots on C3's that make the car uneasy, steering, rubber bushings, lot of tirewall etc,

5. Seats. The '79 high back seats are very comfortable, and the higher up seating position is an improvement. It doesn't hurt that the '79 drivers seat is power either.

the best stock C3 seats, i liked mine as well, but they just weren't part of my project so I got rif of them.

6. Power windows and locks. Nice, but not really necessary.

:yesnod:

7. An aftermarket Kenwood stereo! It's nice to be able to hear the radio for a change :)

Ahh, comfort!!!;)

8. Line lock. I don't know if it really helps at the track or not, but it's a blast to play with in empty parking lots. :lol:

I missed that it has a line lock, so I take that your new best friends shirt says "TIRE RACK"

9. 40 lb. Hays steel flywheel. Everyone around here seems to be high on aluminum flywheels, but I LOVE a heavy steel one. Starting out from a stop in first or second is smoother, and every shift is smoother. With 11:1 compression, the darn engine hits the rev limiter faster than I can shift anyway...

That's good news, my aluminum flywheel got lost and was never found, so I just ended up buying a billet steel one instead. Hope it work with the bb, like it work with your sb.

Things I don't like: This is where I get in trouble...

1. Richmond 6-speed transmission. IMO, this is at least one more gear than I need on the street, and the ratios are too close together for use with a strong engine that has a wide torque range. I'm simply shifting more than I want or need to be. For my driving style, a wide-ratio box would be much better. I also had reservations about the noise that these Richmonds make, but I like it! It makes a nice high performance sound without being annoying. 6th gear on the highway is dead quiet.

You might want to get rid of that fina gear of yours 4,11 seems to be bit too much for your needs. I'm getting 2,73 for my 79 to mate it with my 5speed. I bet with different gearing you'd love that 6 speed, I know I would!

2. The Long Engineering shifter. This shifter looks like a piece of finely crafted metal artwork, but in real life it's not as good as it could be. Maybe mine needs work? I don't know yet. I was under the car, and everything looks correctly adjusted and tight. It's very tough to hit the shifts with any consistency at high rpm. More often than not, I'll go from 2 to 5 or from 3 to 6 unintentionally. I've read all the posts in the archive about these shifter problems, and I plan to remove and inspect it soon (but the fact that those problem threads even exist gives me a bad feeling about it).

You better get that shifter sorted, unintetionally shifts are big no, no, thank god you have the Rev limiter!

3. The 406 small block. Frankly, for the money that was spent on this engine, I hoped it would scare me to death ;) It doesn't. I'm just glad that somebody else spent the big money! With mid 12 second timeslips, the car is certainly fast, but reality is that my 2 full second slower '68 feels just as fast cruising around. For me, the important power is made between 1000 and 4500 rpms. Horsepower peaks above 6000 are great for adding a cool timeslip and dyno numbers to your signature, but for real street driving low rpm torque is king. I envision my 540 under the hood in the near future ;)

I have never liked engines with high peak hp. In real life driving that 6000rpm plus is pretty useless. I went for oval ports on my bb to get the low and mid range torque I was looking for and the dyno sheets showed that it worked really well, I have 500+ above 1500 till 6000.

4. The Auburn 4.11 rear. 4.11s are just too low for street driving. First gear is done so fast that I can't keep up with it. Combine this with the inaccurate shifter, and it's a good thing I have an MSD rev limiter! The Auburn posi seems to work just as well as a GM unit.

Was that car built to be used on Drag strip on regular basis? The 4.11 is way too low for the 6speed, IMO.

5. Flowmaster 40 series mufflers: These things are just rude. They sound great at idle, but driving down the road is a whole different thing. They are super loud, and they resonate horribly at any steady rpm. When the 406 comes on the cam around 3000 rpms or so, I sound like a ricer... :mad

Ricer;) I have no experience with the flow master stuff, but I've heard mainly good things about them. Is anybody hear using Apple mufflers? As for the sound, it's just a matter of taste (don't ask your neibourghs opinion though :yesnod:

6. T-top squeaks and creaks. How the heck do you get rid of this?

Take them off! Or you could try changing the rubbers, I changed mine 10 years ago and it made a helluwa difference, looks like I need to change them again before next summer.

7. Hooker's ceramic header coating. This stuff is flaking off all over my garage...

I haven't heard that the ceramic coating is flaking off. Was the coating done by Hooker?

The ultimate combo for me is a wide ratio 5-speed transmission (but not a Ford tranny! :lol:), low rear gear ratio for decent highway running, and a big block with killer low end torque. This is where I'm going with my car very soon.

That's what I've got now... :cheers:


[Modified by groovyjay, 12:39 PM 11/13/2002]

Flareside

Jay, the more I work on two cars, the more I want to only have one again! Keeping two nice and clean is a full time job.

When your car is finished it will be the closest thing on the forum to what I want for myself. Your EFI big block with a 5-speed should be a great combo. A torquey car that can be driven anywhere, anytime in confort.

The header coating is directly from Hooker. After seeing this, I would definitely spend the money for a quality ceramic coating like JetHot or similar.

Don't worry about your Long shifter. From what I've heard, the 5 speed shifter works better than the 6 speed.

The previous owner built the car to be a streetable drag car, but I think I'd like to toned down a little. My Richmond doesn't have the standard 3.27 first gear and .87 overdrive, it's 3.01 and .62 instead, so the 2.73 or 3.08 rear that everyone usually runs with the ROD won't work here. I think I would like it best with a 3.36. Decisions, decisions...

-Joe

Flareside

Gkull, your experience with the ROD mirrors mine. It's not that you can't make the shift, it's just that it requires more concentration that I would like to get it right every time.

Raise the limiter? Believe me, it's in the plan :D I just picked up one of those dial adjustable MSD modules. My only question is how high those GM pink rods and ARP bolts will go without parting ways...

I have the latest alignment spec sheet from the car at home. I'll post them here tonight.

-Joe