1978Vette

How well does our C3 compare to todays standards of handling? I had a 93 z-28 and i felt my 78 handled much better on curves. Thanks in advance...

dman535

A few things on C3 suspension.

1. Given that the rear halshafts also serves as the upper control arm for the suspension, there is a bit of camber shift as the car moves left to right. On later C4 cars, there is an acutal upper control arm, which helps to keep the rear tires in alignment.

2. The factory 15" wheel size leaves much to be desired for performance tires.

Keep in mind that the underpinnings of a C3 are the same as C2 which came out in 1963, so figure it was on the drafting tables at General Motors in the late 50's ? Technology has advanced a lot since that time. I think with some modification the cars can be made to handle very well, but for a stock car I think it gets creamed by the sportss cars of today.

67HEAVEN

I'm confident that my 2001 Grand Prix GT would out-handle my '67 - F41 Corvette (same basic suspension as most C3s) in OEM condition. In other words, if I restored my Corvette to "as new" condition, my Grand Prix GT would run rings around it on a very tight course.

However, that's to be expected from 40 years of suspension improvements isn't it........After all, the C2 / C3 suspension was designed somewhere around 1961!!!!!!!!!!

This is a major factor in my upgrading to the Performance Plus System from Vette Brakes. :yesnod:

Tom73

Todays sports cars will creame it, but it can be made much better with modern tech parts (composit springs, poly bushings, etc). Remember you are dealing with an early 60's design.

Considering how well it will still do, can you imagine how it compared back in '63 with the other 63 cars????!!!!!!!!

tom...

mrvette

You know, I can't help but laugh as all the comments about 'modern' suspensions and tech over 40 years....UH...hate to say this, but there is damn little in the inherent design that's changed, allmost nothing at all...
the use of glass springs, urethane bushings, and of course rack/pinion and above ALL ELSE....TIRES......well the last two things there TIRES and rack/pinion steering.....are all do able on a C3 by many of us....TIRES are the easiest and cheapest to do, usually....and bring about 90% of the improvements to be made....except rack/pinion steering....

you gotta be shaving tenths of seconds of lap times in a hot race to pick up any of the other differances than mentioned above....and I mean tenths....

I say the differances are much greater in the drivers than the cars at that point....

in other words.....it's not any big improvement....not in handling anyway...not from chassis engineering....

GENE

ericshaw

My 5spd 6cyl 95 Camry 4dr may roll a bit more in the turns but it feels way more stable at 125mph than my vette does, and I'll go into a turn way faster in my camry. Tho their braking capabilities are apples and oranges, the camry won't lock up as quickly. ...I also have 17's on the Camry and 15's on the Vette.


[Modified by ericshaw, 2:34 PM 10/31/2002]

flood

Depends on what your comparing it to.

Compare it to a Z06, and yes your going to get cremed.

I agree with above post, the suspension hasn't changed all that much over the years. Upgrade shocks/springs and tires and your getting there. The thing about it too is that these C3's have awsome weight distribution. I haven't had trouble with any newer cars in the handling department.

I think some of this may be because I am crazy and know my car Very well. I know its limits and I push it right there everytime.

Just the other weekend a newer Mustang GT tried to play. He had alot more power but we were in the mountains and it was the curves that were the challenge (downhill) he was hanging but he WAS NOT passing. He couldn't have. I also have the BFG radial T/A's and they aren't the best tire for performance. Still didnt' have much trouble with him.

All depends on what your comparing. Update the tires/shocks/springs and you will be in the game. Upgrade to six link rear and you will be in their face. :cheers:

78Vette-SA

My 78 hugs the corners and there is very little sway going around sharp turns at speed. If I have teh gas shocks on and tires pumped (33-35psi) up it's much stiffer but I ussually run with my SensaTrac's and the tires about 30psi.

As stated, the big difference I find is in the steering and I'm sure tires have a lot to do with it. On a nice weekend I ussually go for a spin in each just to stretch their legs and mine. Three different cars, all different handling characteristics, all put a BIG FAT SMILE ON MY FACE! :D :D :D

American Boy

Tires (Khumo Ectsa Supra) and wheels (17inch) , performance alignement and smart struts. That and everything in good order. Nothing more is needed to create a car that handle like a charm. The Corvette have a big advantage over the other, it's well balance(small block), it has 4 wheels independant suspension and a good engine. Not as good as the newer Corvette or certain sports car but better than any family car.

I followed a BMW M3 (maybe 2001) in a curve and he didn't loose me. Ok, maybe it wasn't a great pilot but anyway, my car was on rail.

Any 2000 car will outperform a 20 years old sport car with old tires(old technologie), old and weared suspension parts and bad alignement.

Stephan


[Modified by American Boy, 7:48 PM 10/31/2002]

45ACP

An interesting older thread in the "Autocrossing & Roadracing" section that, among other things, discusses C3 competitiveness vs. C4's and 5's -

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=355245

Tom T

It's not a fair comparision. I feel my '79 Vette handles pretty well overall, especially considering it's based on the same design as the C-2's back in the 60's. However, I also have a 2002 BMW 325ci that handles unbelievably good. That car feels like a slot car, where ever you point it, it goes. Even when I push that thing, it holds the freak'n road, where the Vette will get a little shaky at similiar speeds around the same curve.

VegasJen

i agree with GENE mostly. if you look at a bare c-4 frame and suspension, it's spooky how similar the two are in basic lay-out. yeah, the c-4 was a more refined engineering package but for the most part, the c-4 was simply an evolution of the c-2/c-3 design.
for handling, the c-3 can be made to handle on par with MOST current car technology. especially for street use, there are a few things that can make a c-3 comparable to just about any sports car out there.
from a competition stand point, yeah, the c-3 is tired and they can keep up if they are flogged but don't look for a c-3 to win much anymore. i will say this though, i have beaten several stock and slightly modded c-4 and c-5s in auto-x. not to toot my own horn (too much :D ) but it was mostly driver, i've been doing this for a while and i'm an aggressive driver. you put me in a c-3 against a moderately competent c-4 or c-5 driver and i will eat their lunch. :reddevil

73 LS-4

Well in stock form mine was a barge around a corner, it's hold and cornering manners were terrible for a sports car, anything modern and sporty would have creemed it in reguards to cornering. Small tires, Big Block, and stock suspension doesn't make a good handling shark. Now put on big wheels and tires, drop the weight, keep the power, and upgrade the suspension and you have something very formidable. No it won't handle as well as the 86 Z-51 of my step father, but it doesn't ride as harsh either. Now I autocrossed the 73 2 weeks ago, so I know it's limits a little better then I did before, I do believe I could have done better in the 86 on a tight course like it was there, but I doubt a whole lot better. The 73 can hold it's own quite well right now, definitly a 100% improvement over what I started with and it didn't take a whole lot of mods to get it there.

:cheers:
Pat Kunz

Schmucker

The trick I use is to only drive boats, vans, and other beaters whenever not driving the Vette. Certainly makes it seem to handle much better :D

NHvette

Yeah - driving the big ole cars seems to make most sports cars seem
like a slot car. My two sedans are at about 5000 and 6000 pounds.
Hop in a heavy vette at 3600 pounds, and it's like night and day.

Now - regarding modern day sports cars - I had an experience yesterday.
A friend at work had a BMW Z3 (with the BIG 6 cylinder). He let me take it
out for a spin, and I was SO dissapointed. The handling wasn't great, and
the lack of power was sad. He says that it really shines at higher speeds.
Maybe, but for driving around town and small cruises, my old 75 vette was
at least as good as this Z3.

74_LS-4

Hmmm....

Well my 1974 C3 handles like a truck....and that's a 1980s truck.....but I love it nonetheless. Face it...we own C3's for the style, the history and because it's a Vette. It's nice to take the t-tops off and go for a cruise on a sunny fall or spring afternoon.

But when it comes to handling performance, compared to my NSX...well, there's absolutely no comparison.

-Jim

Cali,68,L-79

Apples and oranges, 40 years of technology. That's like asking
"How does a 1975 computer compare with a 2002 computer. Do you realize my Dell Pentium 4 laptop, weighing in a 3.5 lbs, 10"X9"X1.5", has more computing power than the NASA APOLLO mission computer that took up 2 buildings of space, amazing.

74_LS-4

Well, it's not *exactly* like comparing computers of long ago. With computers, there's been improvements in speed and capacity in orders of magnitudes. Cars have improved, but no where near the level of improvement as computers and microelectronics.

If cars were on the same level of improvement...we would see Vettes whizzing by at 10,000 miles per hour and costing $5.

-Jim

mrvette

wit the possible exception of some parts of medical science, there is NO other part of science/tech that has advanced even 10% as much as the computer industry.....but even there it's getting to be a law of attrition...

cars just plainly have not advanced all that much....in fact with FWD, they are going backwards, tech wise....damn sure the durability isn't there anymore.....

GENE

Chuck Harmon

The biggest difference between my C3 and my C5 is the stiffness of the chassis. The C5 suspension is a thing of beauty, BUT the tires make for a bigger difference than any thing else! A new Camaro in good hands can run with a C5 and its suspension isn't that much different than 30 years ago.

Poly bushings, Bilstien sport shocks, new or as new other suspension pieces will make a C3 a very satisfying car to drive. Yet my ZO6 will still be better.

I am not that sold on rack & pinion regarding handling. I really don't think most folks would be able to tell a new worm & ball original setup from a R&P if both were geared the same and everything else was new and tight. The effort to rotate a R&P is virtually the same as a worm & ball type. R&P is like a motorcycle with gear and chain vs. a shaft drive. The shaft drive has a small increase in drive line loss, but it is smoother. The same is true for the steering comparison.

Chuck


[Modified by Chuck Harmon, 9:27 PM 10/31/2002]