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I always wonder what GM did to the rear ends of the L88s and ZL1s and some other concept '69/'70 Corvettes to hold on with the huge torque of these engines. Just look at that photo (circa 1969) when a number of journalists were playing a concept LT-2 Corvette at the drag strip, it has a TH-400 and a 4.88 rear gears :
They did modify the rear suspension a bit. From a OCT69 Motor Trend article.
"In back, the F-41 spring (3828811) with two leafs is used with F-41 shocks (3171489). A two-inch metal block is bolted to the top of the hub carrier which, after traveling about two inches, meets a three-inch rubber bumper. This car has absolutely no wheel hop.
In the differential is a set of 4.88:1, 4650 high nickel alloy gears that are a standard option. Gib took pains to point out that these Chevrolet gears are the best available and that the serious tuner would be money and time ahead to use them. Eight and half inch wide American mags are on the back with seven-inch in front. With a 400-pound load, 0-degrees camber is maintained in the rear suspension for square bite."
And from the same article, "Then, Gib Hufstader, Corvette project engineer wondered how the slightly reworked Turbo Hydra-Matic would take a neutral start. After that, you just brought the rpms up to 6000 and pulled the shift lever into drive. Kapow! The brilliant red Corvette exploded from the line and faded. "
Not to Hijack the thread too bad...but Wow...there's some old videos!! I've got some special attachment to that car, so I'll give some background.
That's me driving both times. As Mike said...the car was brand new. I think it was more like 2 miles on it at the time! After the engine was completed (3 magazine features and a cover shot!) I put it back in the mild Hyd Roller, 4150 carb and Vic jr Intake mode (760'ish HP) and dropped it off for installation. Doug and Co. dropped it in the car...drove it to the corner and loaded it in the trailer to take it to the Corvette Forum Cruise In in Bowling Green. Literally. I met everyone there and we thrashed on the car in the hotel parking lot to get it ready to make a pass. I drove it down the street and all the pulleys fell off front of motor. Oops!! Nothing hurt or even scratched so we were good. Finished up lots of little details.
Got to track and noticed the throttle cable bracket was moving and after the first time you mashed pedal it only got about 3/4 throttle. Hmmnn...messed with it some but still moved around a lot. Also noticed they hadn't had time to cut out the back of the L-88 hood. The carb was literally a 1/4 inch from the hood and no way it could get any air. Hmmnn again.....
The clutch is a dual disc Mcleod but later it was discovered to have the wrong throwout bearing. It wouldn't release properly even if buried to the floor. I made Doug make first pass because I wasn't going to hurt his car! Obviously the clutch issue hindered clean shifting. After Doug ran it some I told him I'd get a 10 second pass and I'd stuff it in a gear! The car has a killer Tranzilla trans that worked great even with clutch issue. I found that after the burnouts the clutch was dragging enough to try and kill the motor so it was pretty tricky doing burnouts and staging it...much less shifting.
So in those videos the car had been driven to the corner and down the dragstrip a couple of times. The whole rear suspension had been apart and the alignment was quickly eyeballed to get it going. You can see in the video it was wanting to pull left pretty hard on the launch and I had to lift to straighten it out.
Anyway, with a 3/4 opening carb, no air to it, funky clutch operation and some launch issue..that crazy thing made some mid 10 sec passes at 130 MPH once we got a little seat time that day. No rollbar and the top down!
As an update...that car turned out incredible. Stan's Customs laid a beautiful paint job on it. It's got Steeroids P/S, hydroboost PB, A/C, full Autometer dash, custom rolbar by same guy who did mine, custom leather interior, etc etc. The whole rear end is nitro plated. There's custom made street and drag wheels for it. The clutch issue was repaired and the Tranzilla folks even went through the trans for us since I "may" have abused the synchros a little during my spirited driving with a poorly functioning clutch.
The car is just slick!
The car is for sale for a fraction of what it took to create it. Doug doesn't drive it much anymore due to many factors and is finally ready to let it go to a good home if you know anyone interested.
Oh yeah....here's my blackmail pic of a magazine editor trying to hide his face while I was testing the line lock in the hotel parking lot!!
Got a special attachment to Allan's car too. Did a full magazine feature on it and took some photos of it at the track. Allan is the poster child for Mike's Super 10's! That's daylight under that big 'ole fat street tire on Rally wheels with 3.36's, T-400, A/C, PS,PB etc etc.!!
Mike did an incredible job on that Dana 60. We got it from a drag racer we came across in Bowling Green one year. He had recently removed it after running it for 10 years under his Super Stocker. Rules had changed to allow him to install a solid axle 12 bolt so he did it assuming it would be more efficient and make him faster. After running it for a year he said he was still slower by .1 and 1 MPH!!!
That one had 4.88's and a spool. Mine has 3.07's with a posi unit. Mine has been under my car for about 16-17 years now. Haven't touched it. Heavy but strong!
That one ended up in Arkansas when Nick sold it along with the 632" motor we built for him. The engine got resold a couple of years ago and went to Chicago. Not sure if the guy still has the rear..he was trying to sell it for awhile. He had never done anything with any of the stuff after he bought it.
But really hard to beat a Super 10 or 12 bolt IRS. They do work!
Alan's car is getting done for sure but he is also an Auto and from the video it does not sound like he leaves on a T-brake so the rear does not see a big shock.
I am leaning more and more to a 12 bolt conversion. I just want to have something that will hold up to some abuse without worrying too much about it.
I'm still gonna have to be careful even with the bigger rear I think but there is no doubt that the 12 bolt is stronger!
I sure wish that Dana 60 was available, i'd ****** it up in a heart beat!
I wonder if one of these could be adapted to work in a C3 Vette. Pro 60-IRS™
That Pro 60 is interesting looking. I bet it could adapted. Looks like they've figured out the main part of housing and stubs. A true Hemi style housing has a pinion snubber mount that makes it easy to build a mount to attach to stcok Vette mountings. Not sure what the front side of this one looks like....
Thanks Fellas, I send V-Rod a pm as a shot in the dark....
Jim, how do you launch your car? What kind of clutch? Are you slipping and rolling out or are you side stepping the clutch and letting it ride? Also what rpm do you leave at?
My car launches at about 5500-6000 rpm on slicks. Sidestep the clutch. I've got a Mcleod Soft Lok adjustable clutch. Here's an article I wrote about it:
Over the years I've raced who knows how many different cars with stick transmissions. You learn how to "walk it out" to either get traction or save parts. When I had a stock diff under my car and the 427, I broke a few stock stub axles and halfshafts but never broke the center section. I came out of the hole relatively soft slipping the clutch even with slicks to save parts. Had enough MPH to be deep in the 10's, but it usually ran 11.20's@123+ driving it that way.
V-Rod had a killer rear end...but remember..it's got 4.88's and a spool. Gears are no problem, but converting it to a posi is going to take some different axles etc.
The car is for sale for a fraction of what it took to create it. Doug doesn't drive it much anymore due to many factors and is finally ready to let it go to a good home if you know anyone interested.
JIM
Know of a good home for it yes... but my pockets aren't deep enough for that. Do you remember what wheels are those?
I'm a Dyer Super 10 satisfied customer too! While I don't launch my car with any sticky tires at the drag strip, its does see hard duty. I run several autocrosses a year and this past year ran the Optima Search for the Ultimate Street Car event at TMS.
Mike's craftsmanship is great. I don't intend to break my diff. More than likely the trans will break before the diff. The M22 is a fresh rebuild that Mike did as well.
It never hurts to over-engineer. If you want to spend the extra $$$ it won't hurt. But the Super 10 most likely is the way to go.
My car launches at about 5500-6000 rpm on slicks. Sidestep the clutch. I've got a Mcleod Soft Lok adjustable clutch. Here's an article I wrote about it:
Over the years I've raced who knows how many different cars with stick transmissions. You learn how to "walk it out" to either get traction or save parts. When I had a stock diff under my car and the 427, I broke a few stock stub axles and halfshafts but never broke the center section. I came out of the hole relatively soft slipping the clutch even with slicks to save parts. Had enough MPH to be deep in the 10's, but it usually ran 11.20's@123+ driving it that way.
V-Rod had a killer rear end...but remember..it's got 4.88's and a spool. Gears are no problem, but converting it to a posi is going to take some different axles etc.
JIM
Thanks for the link Jim that was a great write up!
Yeah I did notice that about V-Rods rear, I figure I would change the gear and have to put in a different Carrier but didn't realize I'd have to change the axles also.....
I still have not decided on a final gear ratio yet for my car....I have not had a clean pass out of it so its hard for me to tell where it wants to be. I do think I need a 4 series gear but I don't know how much.
Not sure on the wheels on Bruiser. They have the mini-lite look but not sure who made them.
The spool type diff's usually have a one piece solid axle that slips all the way through the housing. Much simpler. Trickier adding in bearing retention and stuff for two axles. Can be done...but takes some work.
11-18-2015, 11:24 PM
Do you remember what wheels are those?
