diehrd

How many ask this ? Which is better the 700R4 or the 2004R ? My answer is the 4L80e or even a 4l60E but with out a question computer controls make a difference so big it is a night and day difference.


....................................
I now have a 4L80E ..
4l60e easier to install and somewhat less money


Some may have experienced a TV cable unit (700,200) ,, You know you coast around corner at 25 and it stayed in 3rd (or 4th) and now you have to push the gas half way or pull her back manually to grab second , or your in 4th and want to pass and to down shift to 3rd the tq converter needs to unlock and then it needs to down shift . Feeling sorta clumsy.

Its not like that with a 60e or a 80e . It is so seamless and instant that it almost feels like it has a set of eyes and is changing based on what it sees is going to be next.

It does come with more cost , you need to deal with the mechanical speedometer and you do need a controller like TCI offers..

Having had a nice 700R4 and now having a 4l80e I can say with out a bit of doubt the differences in driving are so pronounced and one sided the 700 can not hold a candle to it. Even though both are over drive lock up units the amazing difference in electronic controls over a cable are staggering..

If you are going to keep your c-3 and will upgrade her the extra 600.00 to a 1000.00 is worth that in spades.

cv67

Def are a smarter trans no?


Those electric trannies it seems you got to keep the fluid levels perfect cool clean they oughta last you a long time.

4l60e I have is real sensitive to level and if the fluid gets dirty the solenoids act stupid sometimes. have heard its just an electric 700r basically not sure how true that is

Just for informations sake was paging through the GMPP/Chevrolet performance parts catalog and saw

4l60e 380 ft lbs (saw 330 also?)
supermatic 4l65e 430 ft lbs
supermatic 4l70e 495 ft lbs
production 4l80e 440 ft lbs
supermatic 4l85e 685 ft lbs

They sell the controllers etc if you put one on a carb'd motor converters also. If it helps any.

lionelhutz

I've run both in the same car and I would never go back to a TV cable operated transmission. Once you change, and get the 4L60e dialed in, you will realize just how crappy the 700R4 worked compared to the 4L60e. You can dial the shift curves so nicely and you get the proper TC lockup control with the electronic transmission.

toobroketoretire

I made a torque converter clutch disconnect using an HEI vacuum advance and a push button doorbell switch. At about 1/4 throttle the vacuum advance retracts which opens the contacts of the doorbell switch and disconnects the clutch. About $20 and easy to make. If you want a better picture I'll be glad to take it off and take a good close-up picture so you can see how I made it.

Mine has a spring on it so I could fine tune it but I have made others since that use a 3" Hg vacuum advance so the spring isn't needed.

David Mc

I think there was something wrong with your TH700. Internally there really isn't any difference between the TH700, 4L60 and 4L60e. They are all driving through the same input sprag (no engine braking).

Not that I'm against electronic controls. I love them but I don't think it's true that the difference is "amazing"

diehrd

Yep it is worlds better ,, I went 80e because i have so much torque and because the pump design is a lot better for severe duty use, no vane pump for me ill take the gear pump please LOL

Zorro O

What makes the 80E harder to install than the 60E?

Zorro.

diehrd

Bigger unit , its best compared too a th400 with over drive making it longer and bigger around. Cooling lines are tight if you do not spend 120.00 on banjo fittings ,, And you need a yoke if you did not start with a th400 . Cross member also needs to be modified I had the Bow Tie for a 700R4 it will not work unless you cut and weld the mount differently.

But it was worth it to me because I have a pretty powerful SBC 427 .

Also I down sized from a 13" torque converter to a 10" that was expensive at about 700.00 from PTC ..

Zorro O

Thanks diehrd, it sound like a lot more work and money. But very interesting just the same.

Zorro.

ajrothm

I have an RPM Level 7 4l60E in my Z06 using a PCS controller. I am also pretty impressed at how well the transmission operates... Pretty much flawless up and down shifts, converter lock up etc etc... They are expensive to do but...I like the "tune it and forget it" aspect of them. This is with right at 900 rwhp going thru it.

I also thought about doing an 80e swap in my 71' and putting the same PCS controller on it. Just hard to justify the cost to swap over from the T400 though.

mrvette

My '72 vert was a Muncie 4 speed, 336 rear, doing 80 on I95 keeping up with traffic put engine at ~4000 rpm, it didn't mind so much as it did have DPFI on it L98 setup 24 mpg.....but after moving to Florida, it became a bit much so I went 700 r4 the first time, but the gearing was just stupid in that the drop from 1-2 happened in the middle of the intersection....from scream to damn near bog.....I finally gave up on it, and built a 200 4r and it's a much better fit to the car....



OH, forget to mention, I had to widen the pass side of the floorboards to clear cooling lines and pan width problems for either trans this must be done...methinks the stick cars had narrower tunnels....

7T1vette

Mrvette...

In a past 'life', did you dye your hair red and work for McDonalds? Your avitar looks hauntingly familiar.....

mrvette

Years ago one of my wife's grandkids ran into the house and slapped some grade school play wig on my head, so I adjusted it a tad, and stood for that pix.....in fact at age 71 now, I basically bald so thin I just shave it close once a month, it would NEVER qualify for a comb over.....

Blue79

Diehrd, don't know what the issue(s) with your 2004r was, but I have one that shifts just fine by itself coming around corners when slowing down. No pushing the throttle to induce downshifting or manually downshifting. Perhaps a less than stellar rebuild or incorrectly set up TV cable? Comments like those make it sound as though Detroit sent them all out with unresolved problems.

dar322

my 2004r works perfectly. must be the builder who understands all that is happening.

cardo0

Just to add a little here im getting ready for my 2nd 4L60E rebuild in about 4yrs. This is in my 4th gen Z28. I can tell right away when the trans starts slipping my timeslips start to wander. When trans was new every pass was within 0.05sec. Talking with the C4 crowd that frequently race i read the 4L60, 700R4 and 200R4 just dont live a long life racing - mostly 2yrs between rebuilds. Now i think the TH350 a little better or maybe a lot better because of more hi-po parts available, cheaper and more know-how.

But for most street cars a TH400 or 4L80E can be bought as a fresh reman for like $1000 and last at least twice as long if not the life of car. But they do weigh more and have greater power loss. But if your doing a conversion where u have to replace cross-member & mount, driveshaft, shifter, fluid lines anyways u will save money over a longer peroid than 2yrs.

Thats my 2 cents and hope it can help someone undecided make a choice for the better.

diehrd

I was in the transmission business and the early overdrives ALL went out the manufactures door with unresolved issues ..

Its not that my unit was bad or had issues it is more that the technology of its time is inferior to today's which we should all expect to be the case. And in actual driving comparisons in the same car with the same driver and road conditions I can say the electronic controls are way better .

a 60e performs better then a 700R4 only because it has electronic controls and the fact is a 60e is a 700R4 ..

200k on a 60e you betcha . 700R4 ????? well maybe but usually not.

gungatim

maybe back in the day, but now a days, you can rebuild a 200,700, and even the crappy weak 4L60E to very heavy duty better than stock specks. it is standard procedure for most tranny shops. I supposed if you had the choice of a used original trans out of a junkyard, you would not consider an early 700R4, but I wouldn't touch an original 4l60E either for the same reason...but who puts used trannys in our vette's anyway? Just make sure you use all the heavy duty revised parts in whatever tranny you have built in the first place...used to be the same with the old TH350's, beef em up to TH375 status.

lionelhutz

Until you try both you just won't get it. I have the 4L60E setup fairly aggressively. At part throttle it shifts right before the acceleration slows down or just below the steady state speed It'd reach if I didn't shift. It also starts unlocking the converter and kicking down as soon as I give it about 5% more throttle than what's required to cruise. You simply can not fine tune a mechanical transmission to react that tightly.

diehrd

The 4l60e is the revised parts 700R4 .. In any event as stated you can not compare performance and consistency on these units the electronically controlled units by far surpass the early mechanical run units .

If you do not minding spend the extra it is well worth the money to go electronic