4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved
08-21-2002, 03:23 PM
#41
Race Director
Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
I have prepared a reply to this message but am waiting to decide if I should send it or not.
tom...
08-21-2002, 03:24 PM
#42
Team Owner
Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
69L71, bet that Carlysle security will do nothing, and even IF they send an underpaid guard to see what's happening...nothing will come of their/his presence there...they don't care....
ME, I'd show up with protesters all over the place....and feel free to hand out the TRUTH, as it's free speech, they can't touch you....got the documentation straight??? have at it....court of public opinion is more important than any judge,....unless it's OJ....
GENE
ME, I'd show up with protesters all over the place....and feel free to hand out the TRUTH, as it's free speech, they can't touch you....got the documentation straight??? have at it....court of public opinion is more important than any judge,....unless it's OJ....
GENE
08-21-2002, 03:55 PM
#43
Melting Slicks
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (mrvette)
I love that "alleged property damage you sustained." :rolleyes:
JB
JB
08-21-2002, 04:14 PM
#44
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (JB)
I love that "alleged property damage you sustained." :rolleyes:
JB
JB
[Modified by Fevre, 2:15 PM 8/21/2002]
08-21-2002, 04:18 PM
#45
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (JB)
I look forward to Corvettes at Carlisle every year, you can't beat seeing all the restored and beautifully modified vettes in one place. I find it very inspirational and try to emmulate the quality of the best. I also enjoy the finer cars for sale, the treasure hunt for those hard-to-find pieces and the vendor's booths. This year, however, I think I'll bring a cold beverage, a bag of popcorn and watch the fireworks in front of the Lifts Unlimited booth. Should be a hoot.
I'll be another just another guy from Maryland. I'm in the process of building a house (Now without a lift) and hoping to help 69L71.
Scott
I'll be another just another guy from Maryland. I'm in the process of building a house (Now without a lift) and hoping to help 69L71.
Scott
08-21-2002, 05:05 PM
#46
Drifting
Thread Starter
Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (Tom73)
I sent the reply. This will be my last correspondence with the lawyer. If he steps up again I'll just bring my attorney to the forefront and let them handle it.
Here's what I wrote (again, with names deleted):
-------------------------------------------------
Mr Xxxxxx:
Thank you for your kind warning of possible litigation in the matter between myself and Lifts Unlimited. However, I believe your concern in this matter is ill focused. I believe I have never made misleading and slanderous statements on any internet website. I have simply made a running commentary on the facts regarding my situation.
Let me address your points one at a time:
“You are well aware that representatives of Lifts Unlimited, Inc., promptly responded to your complaints and in fact delivered a replacement product within days of becoming aware of your complaint.”
Lifts Unlimited dispatched their driver with a replacement lift on April 20, 2002. This was nearly five weeks after my initial conversation with management at Lifts Unlimited, not 'within days'. Also, this delivery was never discussed or authorized by me. The driver contacted me from the road to find directions to my house. This was when I first became aware of the delivery, and it came as a shock. During my discussions with Mr. Xxxxxx on March 18, I unambiguously told him that I would not accept another lift because my wife and I had agreed not to have another after my potentially fatal experience. At that time, Mr. Xxxxxx offered instead to refund my payment and retrieve the lift. This never happened.
“You refused acceptance of the replacement product until you had an opportunity to settle with the insurance carrier for the alleged property damage you sustained from the original product.”
This is a correct statement. Aside from being shocked that Mr. Xxxxxx was sending another lift without consulting me, and despite my statement that I could/would not accept one, I was advised by council and the respective insurance agents not to move the lift until a full inspection was performed by the assigned insurance adjuster. I took this advice and asked the driver to return. On April 23, 2002 Xxxxxx emailed me with the following statement: "...When its settled just let us know (or we'll call you, either way) and I'll have Xxxxxx (one of LU's drivers) come out anddismantle and take the lift away."
“The insurance carrier has provided compensation to you and, although additional monies may or may not be owed to you, your representations that your concerns and complaints are being ignored is without merit andfactual support.”
I disagree. My refusal to allow Lifts Unlimited to collect the lift was on firm legal grounds as an insurance claim was in work with the lift being a key part of the insurance investigation. This was obviously understood by Mr. Xxxxxx by his email statement to have the lift dismantled and picked up after the settlement was made, on April 23. The investigation yielded partial payment to my damages in May 2002. After the investigation was complete and the check paid, I called Lifts Unlimited countless times to ask for follow up on Mr. Xxxxxx’s promise to refund my money and retrieve the lift. My calls were not returned. One the two occasions I was able to speak with someone in authority at Lifts Unlimited, Xxxxx Xxxxx told me in June that he would see that a check for $3300 was processed. Later that month I was told by Ms. Xxxxxx that the check disbursement was authorized but that I would need to sign a release stating that the lift would be available for collection and not otherwise disposed of. I agreed. No release was sent, nor was any payment. Despite the initial offer and subsequent confirmation by other members of the company, over the 3-month period from May through mid-August I have been unable to get this issue settled. I believe that this inaction on the part of your clients adequately constitutes ignoring my complaint and concern.
“Furthermore, the factual misrepresentations and distortions are being made by you with the intent to damage the reputation of Lifts Unlimited and its owners.
I believe I have made no such misrepresentations. I have had 3 lawyers review my postings on the Corvetteforum and no untruths or misrepresentations were identified. I believe I have done nothing but factually report the failure (of which I stated was a freak accident) and summarize my correspondence with the company. I, in fact, repeatedly stated that I still believe that the Perfect Park 7000 (the product for which I am accused of berating) is still one of the better products in the industry. I believe if you, Mr. Xxxxxx, were to read my postings you would see that this was true.
“Despite my clients' efforts to resolve this dispute you have continued your campaign of slander and we are aware of your threats to disrupt the Corvettes at Carlisle auto show. It is my understanding you intend to disseminate information attacking the reputation and product of my client from your vendor booth at Carlisle. As you know it is not the intent of the site host, Carlisle Productions, to have vendor booths used in this manner. We have already discussed this with Carlisle Productions and if you disrupt the show in any manner you will be removed, by Carlisle Productions.”
I have made no such plans to disrupt the Corvettes at Carlisle show. I am attending the event to solely to show, buy, and sell corvette parts. I plan only to have a photo album of pictures of the collapsed lift at my vendor space. The lift is my property and I am free to display pictures of my property. This does not, in any way, constitute a disruption at a public event.
“To conclude, if you continue to interfere with the legal and lawful business of my client, by making and posting slanderous statements, litigation will result.”
Mr. Xxxxxx, the definition of Slander pertains to the verbal statement of untruths with the intent to cause damage to one’s reputation. I have made no verbal statements on this matter at all. My posts have been strictly written not verbal, and I believe them to be completely factual. However, it should be noted that I have been told that on more than one occasion, other individuals have spoken with Lifts Unlimited representatives at public automotive events. When asked about my incident, the representatives got angry, called me foul-mouthed names, and blamed the failure on me. This has been a consistent response. I have record of these conversations and will acquire written statements from the individuals involved if necessary. Mr. Xxxxxx, the Lift’s manufacturer, Gemini Auto Lifts, was aware of the pulley failure from previous failures. Gemini and Lifts Unlimited have gone so far as to alter the pulley installation design and issued retrofit kits to operators to minimize the probability of similar failure. This clearly absolves me from being at fault. In fact, I was never under any belief that Gemini or the management Lifts Unlimited considered me to be at fault; however, when licensed representatives of Lifts Unlimited make such patently false, abrasive, and inflammatory claims against me in a public forum, it causes me to ponder slander litigation of my own.
I hope this message helps clear the situation.
I will forgo any further correspondence with you and defer to my attorneys, Xxxxxx, Xxxxxx & Xxxxxx.
Respectfully,
-------------------------------------------------
[Modified by 69L71, 3:15 PM 8/21/2002]
Here's what I wrote (again, with names deleted):
-------------------------------------------------
Mr Xxxxxx:
Thank you for your kind warning of possible litigation in the matter between myself and Lifts Unlimited. However, I believe your concern in this matter is ill focused. I believe I have never made misleading and slanderous statements on any internet website. I have simply made a running commentary on the facts regarding my situation.
Let me address your points one at a time:
“You are well aware that representatives of Lifts Unlimited, Inc., promptly responded to your complaints and in fact delivered a replacement product within days of becoming aware of your complaint.”
Lifts Unlimited dispatched their driver with a replacement lift on April 20, 2002. This was nearly five weeks after my initial conversation with management at Lifts Unlimited, not 'within days'. Also, this delivery was never discussed or authorized by me. The driver contacted me from the road to find directions to my house. This was when I first became aware of the delivery, and it came as a shock. During my discussions with Mr. Xxxxxx on March 18, I unambiguously told him that I would not accept another lift because my wife and I had agreed not to have another after my potentially fatal experience. At that time, Mr. Xxxxxx offered instead to refund my payment and retrieve the lift. This never happened.
“You refused acceptance of the replacement product until you had an opportunity to settle with the insurance carrier for the alleged property damage you sustained from the original product.”
This is a correct statement. Aside from being shocked that Mr. Xxxxxx was sending another lift without consulting me, and despite my statement that I could/would not accept one, I was advised by council and the respective insurance agents not to move the lift until a full inspection was performed by the assigned insurance adjuster. I took this advice and asked the driver to return. On April 23, 2002 Xxxxxx emailed me with the following statement: "...When its settled just let us know (or we'll call you, either way) and I'll have Xxxxxx (one of LU's drivers) come out anddismantle and take the lift away."
“The insurance carrier has provided compensation to you and, although additional monies may or may not be owed to you, your representations that your concerns and complaints are being ignored is without merit andfactual support.”
I disagree. My refusal to allow Lifts Unlimited to collect the lift was on firm legal grounds as an insurance claim was in work with the lift being a key part of the insurance investigation. This was obviously understood by Mr. Xxxxxx by his email statement to have the lift dismantled and picked up after the settlement was made, on April 23. The investigation yielded partial payment to my damages in May 2002. After the investigation was complete and the check paid, I called Lifts Unlimited countless times to ask for follow up on Mr. Xxxxxx’s promise to refund my money and retrieve the lift. My calls were not returned. One the two occasions I was able to speak with someone in authority at Lifts Unlimited, Xxxxx Xxxxx told me in June that he would see that a check for $3300 was processed. Later that month I was told by Ms. Xxxxxx that the check disbursement was authorized but that I would need to sign a release stating that the lift would be available for collection and not otherwise disposed of. I agreed. No release was sent, nor was any payment. Despite the initial offer and subsequent confirmation by other members of the company, over the 3-month period from May through mid-August I have been unable to get this issue settled. I believe that this inaction on the part of your clients adequately constitutes ignoring my complaint and concern.
“Furthermore, the factual misrepresentations and distortions are being made by you with the intent to damage the reputation of Lifts Unlimited and its owners.
I believe I have made no such misrepresentations. I have had 3 lawyers review my postings on the Corvetteforum and no untruths or misrepresentations were identified. I believe I have done nothing but factually report the failure (of which I stated was a freak accident) and summarize my correspondence with the company. I, in fact, repeatedly stated that I still believe that the Perfect Park 7000 (the product for which I am accused of berating) is still one of the better products in the industry. I believe if you, Mr. Xxxxxx, were to read my postings you would see that this was true.
“Despite my clients' efforts to resolve this dispute you have continued your campaign of slander and we are aware of your threats to disrupt the Corvettes at Carlisle auto show. It is my understanding you intend to disseminate information attacking the reputation and product of my client from your vendor booth at Carlisle. As you know it is not the intent of the site host, Carlisle Productions, to have vendor booths used in this manner. We have already discussed this with Carlisle Productions and if you disrupt the show in any manner you will be removed, by Carlisle Productions.”
I have made no such plans to disrupt the Corvettes at Carlisle show. I am attending the event to solely to show, buy, and sell corvette parts. I plan only to have a photo album of pictures of the collapsed lift at my vendor space. The lift is my property and I am free to display pictures of my property. This does not, in any way, constitute a disruption at a public event.
“To conclude, if you continue to interfere with the legal and lawful business of my client, by making and posting slanderous statements, litigation will result.”
Mr. Xxxxxx, the definition of Slander pertains to the verbal statement of untruths with the intent to cause damage to one’s reputation. I have made no verbal statements on this matter at all. My posts have been strictly written not verbal, and I believe them to be completely factual. However, it should be noted that I have been told that on more than one occasion, other individuals have spoken with Lifts Unlimited representatives at public automotive events. When asked about my incident, the representatives got angry, called me foul-mouthed names, and blamed the failure on me. This has been a consistent response. I have record of these conversations and will acquire written statements from the individuals involved if necessary. Mr. Xxxxxx, the Lift’s manufacturer, Gemini Auto Lifts, was aware of the pulley failure from previous failures. Gemini and Lifts Unlimited have gone so far as to alter the pulley installation design and issued retrofit kits to operators to minimize the probability of similar failure. This clearly absolves me from being at fault. In fact, I was never under any belief that Gemini or the management Lifts Unlimited considered me to be at fault; however, when licensed representatives of Lifts Unlimited make such patently false, abrasive, and inflammatory claims against me in a public forum, it causes me to ponder slander litigation of my own.
I hope this message helps clear the situation.
I will forgo any further correspondence with you and defer to my attorneys, Xxxxxx, Xxxxxx & Xxxxxx.
Respectfully,
-------------------------------------------------
[Modified by 69L71, 3:15 PM 8/21/2002]
08-21-2002, 05:52 PM
#48
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
Hey Chris,
I gotta say, assuming you typed the original letter verbatum, it doesn't really read like a lawyer wrote it.
In my experience lawyers call to record you slipping up and hold it against you in court, everything else arrives via certified mail. Sealed and stamped to prove it was sent.
[Modified by ericshaw, 3:54 PM 8/21/2002]
I gotta say, assuming you typed the original letter verbatum, it doesn't really read like a lawyer wrote it.
In my experience lawyers call to record you slipping up and hold it against you in court, everything else arrives via certified mail. Sealed and stamped to prove it was sent.
[Modified by ericshaw, 3:54 PM 8/21/2002]
08-21-2002, 06:32 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (ericshaw)
Chris,
By writing and sending that yourself, you probably saved a couple of grand in attourney fees.
Good work Chris -
-Steve
By writing and sending that yourself, you probably saved a couple of grand in attourney fees.
Good work Chris -
-Steve
08-21-2002, 06:48 PM
#51
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
I may be getting into this discussion a little late, but you seem to have a very good case. By this time your lawyer should be all over them. Posting messages may get their attention, but it will not get you the money. If you need a good lawyer, I know one in Annapolis that I have used. He is reasonable and effective. Send me an email
Gil
Gil
08-21-2002, 07:08 PM
#52
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
Bravo, Chris :cheers:
The only suggestion I would make is to contact Carlisle yourself (if you haven't already) to confirm these jokers actually raised concerns about you.
If they did, just tell them what you said in your response to the E-mail. Of course, you have no control or influence over what other forum members do or say when they are at their booth :lol:
See you there! :cheers:
The only suggestion I would make is to contact Carlisle yourself (if you haven't already) to confirm these jokers actually raised concerns about you.
If they did, just tell them what you said in your response to the E-mail. Of course, you have no control or influence over what other forum members do or say when they are at their booth :lol:
See you there! :cheers:
08-21-2002, 07:21 PM
#53
Drifting
Thread Starter
Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (ericshaw)
eric:
I didn't re-type the letter. I cut and pasted it directly from my email. The only changes I made were deleting the names and such. What you see is what I received.
All:
Thanks for the comments. I wasn't sure if I should reply or not, but I also refuse to be bullied. I wanted to be careful, once again, to be factual and direct.
I need to start loading up the truck for Carlisle. I'll have my laptop with me so I'll be able to check in here and my email for more lawyer-mail. I'll be sure to update if anything else happens. If you're a Carlisle, feel free to stop by spaces M10 and M11 and say hi. Otherwise I'll see 'ya at the Zip tent Saturday at 1. We can discuss what, if anything to do about visiting Lifts Unlimited.
I didn't re-type the letter. I cut and pasted it directly from my email. The only changes I made were deleting the names and such. What you see is what I received.
All:
Thanks for the comments. I wasn't sure if I should reply or not, but I also refuse to be bullied. I wanted to be careful, once again, to be factual and direct.
I need to start loading up the truck for Carlisle. I'll have my laptop with me so I'll be able to check in here and my email for more lawyer-mail. I'll be sure to update if anything else happens. If you're a Carlisle, feel free to stop by spaces M10 and M11 and say hi. Otherwise I'll see 'ya at the Zip tent Saturday at 1. We can discuss what, if anything to do about visiting Lifts Unlimited.
08-21-2002, 07:26 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (gmcclurg)
I think it would be really cool to open a new thread with a list of people who will now NOT buy from these guys that were considering a lift. Would be neat to see how much business they have lost just from the forum.
I would ABSOLUTELY be on that list!
I would ABSOLUTELY be on that list!
08-21-2002, 07:42 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (Tom73)
Go get them, but don't post anymore until settlement, that way it can't be used against you. Good luck.
08-21-2002, 07:48 PM
#56
Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
You are doing everyone on this forum a great service by keeping us up to date on this situation. I, for one, will never do business with a company who won't stand behind their products. I also have many friends who are into classic cars and street rods. Word travels fast, if you get my drift. I can guarantee you that the company would have been financially better off if they had done the right thing and compensated you in a timely manner. The fact that the lift fell would not preclude me (or my friends) from ever buying one, as long as the defect was repaired and a warrantee was given. The actions of this owner, and company, will, however, keep me from ever being a customer of theirs. Give 'em hell, pal.
BTW - aren't cease and desist orders usually served by a Sheriff or sent via certified mail?
BTW - aren't cease and desist orders usually served by a Sheriff or sent via certified mail?
08-21-2002, 09:01 PM
#57
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (69L71)
Well sport, I can understand this VERY, VERY well. I had this very same thing happen to me two years ago right here on the fourm. If you want to email me I can spare you the trouble of hearing what your lawyer is going to tell you. However this is quickly becoming a CLASSIC example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by the owners of Lifts Unlimited. I still can't understand how they can be so blind to what is clearly a very foolish mistake on their behalf. This is so wrong that they can't be crazy enough to believe that their not going to cause ill will towards themselves over and over. Again, a business led by fools and again they choose the wrong way to deal with a simple customer service issue. What idiots ! :crazy:
08-21-2002, 09:13 PM
#58
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (4rensic22)
Chris,
I think that your letter is well written. If I were you, I wouldn't go anywhere near their booth at Carlisle w/o witnesses, cameras, etc. with you.
Have fun at Carlisle!
I think that your letter is well written. If I were you, I wouldn't go anywhere near their booth at Carlisle w/o witnesses, cameras, etc. with you.
Have fun at Carlisle!
08-21-2002, 10:01 PM
#59
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (Paul Borowski)
I think we all ought to order lifts from "Perfuk'd Park", then all of us cancel the orders Monday when we get home :lol:
This would make it fun for everyone....... :cheers:
08-21-2002, 10:13 PM
#60
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Re: 4-Post Lift Collapse - 5 Months and the lawyers are getting involved (Desertdawg)
F those stinkin lawyers :conehead , and their silly emails. Unless a judge orders you to do something, tell those dumb @#$% paper pushers to stick it.
I testify at criminal hearings all the time and it is almost laughable what these college dinks pass off as scholarly legal advice. tell 'em to take you to court or shut their traps, lawyers bite the big one - IMHO :D
It's always best to not respond to lawyers - ever! Dont talk to them when they call, don't respond to letters, and tell them to screw when you see them in the hallways of the courthouse. They are tricky little Bast#$%ds and are only looking to get a little info to get a leg up on you. You don't have to explain anything!!! when - (the insurance companies will surely hanndle everything anyway) - and if you go to court, the judge will stick it to them and they will be stuck with all the lawyer fees.
Oooooh, :mad now I want to drive down to Carlisle and cause a big silly scene everytime a potential customer walks up to their booth! :lol: :p: :p: :p:
[Modified by 14-Paul, 2:28 AM 8/22/2002]
I testify at criminal hearings all the time and it is almost laughable what these college dinks pass off as scholarly legal advice. tell 'em to take you to court or shut their traps, lawyers bite the big one - IMHO :D
It's always best to not respond to lawyers - ever! Dont talk to them when they call, don't respond to letters, and tell them to screw when you see them in the hallways of the courthouse. They are tricky little Bast#$%ds and are only looking to get a little info to get a leg up on you. You don't have to explain anything!!! when - (the insurance companies will surely hanndle everything anyway) - and if you go to court, the judge will stick it to them and they will be stuck with all the lawyer fees.
Oooooh, :mad now I want to drive down to Carlisle and cause a big silly scene everytime a potential customer walks up to their booth! :lol: :p: :p: :p:
[Modified by 14-Paul, 2:28 AM 8/22/2002]