ibfuelish

I sent a PM to Jim Shea, but being the impatient person I am (It's only been two years since this car has started due to this issue)...I thought I'd post here as well.


I've poured over this forum looking for pertinent information. I thought I found the right info, but it just hasn't panned out. So I'm sorry for asking you what I'm sure you've answered 100's of times already.

1973 454 auto tilt tele

Turn key, starter engages, but no start. release key out of starting sequence...nothing. Turn key back towards off and as I am turning out of the run position, the engine coughs and acts like it just tried to start. So, engage starter, it turns over, but no ignite, release starter nothing, move key towards off and motor coughs.

I did a search here, coupled with another tech I know and decided to install a new ignition switch. The key cylinder was badly worn as well, so I installed a new one also, all from dealer.

STILL COULDN'T GET IT TO WORK and I was second guessing my install. So I sent the column to the other Chevy Tech I know and he put everything together and said I'd be good to go.

Got column home, plugged it in, SAME THING. Almost no change. Called the tech and he's now out of town camping for a few weeks and is out of contact.

Could I be addressing this issue on the wrong side of the firewall?

I have a mallory electronic distributor with a mallory coil and ballast resistor.

Any suggestions?

DUB

ASSUMING that you have the CORRECT IGNITION switch mounted to the steering column....and the wiring going to it is CORRECT. NOT the key switch...but the one that is secured to the mask jacket of the steering column.

My thought would be....because the engine will spin over but not ignite....I would be looking at the power getting to the coil when the key is in the START and RUN positions.

WHY and I writing this....because often times....the wiring to the coil/distributor is NOT getting 12 volts when the key ids in the STARTING position....and is still not getting 12 volts when it is in the RUN position....BUT....when you turn it to accessory....it gets 12 volts and is igniting the fuel that is still in the cylinders.

DUB

jnb5101

Test the voltage at the starter on the R and S terminals while the switch is in the run and start positions. If that checks out, temporarily run a wire from a known 12 volt source (horn relay) to the coil and see if the motor catches-just to eliminate the other ignition problem or wiring problems.

Richard454

Here you go- I just mapped out my ignition switch as I am doing a push-button start.

Basically the key ignition switch on the column connects to a rod which activates the ignition/start switch mounted a foot or so down the column. The wires running in the column- AKA harmonica connector- don't have anything to do w/ the keyed ignition switch except activate the warning key in ignition buzzer. Those wires are for the turn/hazards/horn.

So no matter how worn the actual key tumbler part is-as long as the rod is moving the ignition switch- that's not your problem....


Here's the actual switch-that electrically controls your ignition & starter

DSCN5195 by Richard Hayes, on Flickr

The wires that plug into the switch-

DSCN5194 by Richard Hayes, on Flickr


Here's the wires mapped out-what they do-

starter wires by Richard Hayes, on Flickr
The mechanical rod that controls the seitch-

DSCN5205 by Richard Hayes, on Flickr

Where the rod connects- you can use a small screwdriver and control the ignition/start w/o the key once disconnected from the steering column=


DSCN5206 by Richard Hayes, on Flickr

ibfuelish

I'll check the voltages. Since the electricity bottlenecks here at the ignition switch and the starter is engaging, I was certain it was a matter of getting a new ignition switch (not the cylinder) and getting it sequenced properly.

I've even removed the ignition switch with the plugs still in place and instead of moving the key, I moved the ignition switch itself and same thing, Can't get it to fire until I move from run to off.

CanadaGrant

I had this same problem quite a few years ago and it was a faulty switch as in Richards pic. With the switch in the ON position there was ignition but in the Start position the starter would crank but ignition was dead until you released the key back to the ON position then you had ignition. If you caught it just right when you released the key the car would start. It was a faulty switch (the lower one).

jackwabbit703

It's strange that I could not get my car started this morning with Mallory HEI after sitting for 4 months.

My HEI voltage reading was at 11.2V and it would not start. After charging my battery for 8 hours with trickle charger and having 12.2V at Mallory HEI started the engine immediately.

I thinking not enough juice to get the HEI supply sparks.

Hope it works for u tho.

ibfuelish

Yeah, I thought that as well. I have a ballast resistor and its ran fine with it before, but I suspected it might be corroded. So I bought another and installed it...no diff. I checked the voltage across the new resistor and it appears the coil is only getting 4 volts. I'm thinking of omitting the resistor and see how it goes.

Jebbysan

+1.....this can be troublesome to the uneducated. I has to have 12v while cranking.....
A friends 64 Nova did this.....if you could get the engine spinning fast enough it would fire as you released the key.....
The R side gives it power during cranking.
Pink wire in the diagram...

Jebby

Jim Shea

It sure seems to me that your problem is in the ignition system not necessarily the steering column. However, you might want to double check that the ignition switch and the steering column lock cylinder and key are synchronized.

I don't know if this will help or not but here is the sequence built into the ignition switch.
From full clockwise to full counterclockwise:
START with spring return to RUN
RUN with detent to get to next position OFF
OFF with another detent to get to OFF-LOCK
OFF-LOCK with another detent to the ACCESSORY position.

So there are five positions built into the switch itself. You should be able to distinctly feel all five positions by moving the slider on the underside of the ignition switch.

To synchronize the ignition switch to the steering column requires the following procedure.

With the steering column out of the car, and the ignition switch removed from the column. Now move the lower lever DOWN to its lowest position. Rotate your ignition lock cylinder and key CCW from full CW until it stops. Your ignition lock cylinder (and steering column) are now in the OFF position.

Now take your ignition switch and move the slider into the START position, (you will feel the spring pushing against you.) The spring should place you in the RUN position. Now move the slider to the next detent position. You are now in the OFF position. You now have the ignition switch and your steering column both in the OFF position.

Carefully install the ignition switch on the steering column rod (being careful to not disturb the slider position. Lightly push down on the switch to take slack out of the system. Tighten the two nuts that hold the switch to the column jacket.

Now when you move the lower steering column lever to the full UP position, you should be able to continue rotating your ignition key and lock cylinder CCW to the OFF-LOCK and ACCESSORY positions.

Jim

ibfuelish

I guess I'm dumber than I look.

After running out of combinations of changes all centered around the ignition switch on the steering column, I screwed the switch down in place and said to myself, "IT'S NOT THE IGNITION SWITCH!" and began hunting for issues on the other side of the firewall.

I found a loose wire on the wire loom. I tested it for voltage and it was hot all the time as long as the battery was hooked up. so I secured it back in place in the loom AND....NOTHING. no change...SO...

I started checking the voltages at various places. Voltage to Coil from Ballast resistor was 4 volts. I thought, maybe this was the problem. Bought new ballast resistor, installed it AND...Nothing! I checked the voltage and still 4 volts going from ballast to coil, full 12 to ballast from ignition when in the RUN position....SO, I said "The hell with it." I'll remove the ballast all together because I can't exactly remember why I have the ballast in there in the first place. I have a Mallory HEI pointless ignition and a High Energy Coil. I figured, at this point worst case I burn up the innards of the distributor.

So took un ballasted voltage wire directly to coil....BANG, fired right up!

I'm like WHAT!!!!????

Now that ballast has been in there for 25 or so years. Maybe the new one was junk, I don't really even know what they are there for...(I think to keep voltage even to the electronic ignition) But, without it, the car fires right up!!!

I'VE BEEN HUNTING THE PROBLEM FOR WAY TO LONG.

Mike

toobroketoretire

As far as I know all of the pointless conversions call for a straight 12-volts to the ignition system.