jb78L-82

Excellent thinking….

Belgian1979vette

it would be in approximately the right place below the diff.

gkull

I tried researching where to place the X pipe. One train of thought seems to be placing them very close to where collectors should end. @ 18 -24 inches behind the 4 primaries. Velocity is still high and needing to hit lower pressure like uncapped collectors

RickyBerg

I have my X-pipe (chamber) right under the diff, that's where i found it most convenient to put it.

It appears to brake up the pulses from the exhaust with the result of keeping the db down.

In Sweden there are quite hard restrictions on noise even on the racetracks and its not uncommon that cars get taken off the track due to making to much noise.

The side-pipe cars have huge problems due to the location of the microphones for controlling the sound level very often is located on the speaker tower witch normally sits just by the side of the track at the start/finish straight.

However, it has never been a problem for me with the X-pipe installed.

SH-60B

You have far more verticle wall than Gkull's modification, nearly half the height of the crossmember, that's why yours is stronger. Gkull's is strong. Comparing a bridge arch to that crossmember is nonsense. A bridge arch transmits the force from the top of the arch downward to the ground. The crossmember is tranfering the force from the top of the arch directly out ward to the framerails. Seems like gkull should look up physics, lol!

gkull

Do you really think you can bend these arches? What is this arch doing? I'd say that it keeps the cross member from bending down? I'd say that is physics. Especially since it has lasted more than 25 years. With numerous engines and transmissions more powerful than anything you have. How much weight is actually placed in the middle from the tranny? I've actually bench pressed my tranny into place and put the mounting engine bolts in with one hand.

SH-60B

Like I said, strong enough, but no where near as strong as the original design, mostly because GM employs engineers that are well versed in physics, unlike yourself. No need for another unbalanced retort, you are dissmissed.

Belgian1979vette

Legislation and restrictions are increasingly getting more strict for our cars in Europe. Soon they will destroy what is left of our hobbies.

Silvertone

Sorry for the delayed response. Pypes kit came with enough pieces to reach a stock header flange. We had to custom fit a couple of the 45* pieces to mate to the header collector. If I ran more than 6200rpm maybe I'd have tried harder to make it straight. Mufflers are Borla Pro XS.

jb78L-82

Thanks for the info!

7t9l82

i have to agree, the arch cutout is very strong. the load is distributed top to bottom. it is at least as strong as what was there before.

gkull

Do you really think that our cheap stamped semi welded cross member is well engineered

gkull

You are right. If I put my CM in a hydraulic press right above the arch it would just crush the cheap stamped steel. The arch I put in is twice as thick and wider. I hope SH-60B isn't a helicopter mechanic

Torqued Off

Truth is unless you a trained and experienced mechanical engineer, and you do a calculation on the ACTUAL strength of the units, both original and modified, everything written above is just B.S........Now, with that being said, even the modified crossmember probably far exceed the requirements of the installation. If he has actually been driving the car with this mod for some period of time, and driving as hard as GKull sounds like he drives, the proof is in the reality. That doesn't mean that next week it won't break!

SH-60B

LOL, you have issues. For the third time, your CM is strong enough, just not as strong as GMs design. What you have done, to use your bridge analogy, is take a beam bridge and cut two massive sections out of it and called it an arch bridge. If the bottom of those two cut outs rested on the frame like an arch bridge rests on the earth, you would indeed have an arch bridge. But they don't, so it isn't. Think about the strength of a 2"x4", supported only on each end, with and without those two cutouts in it and you'll get the idea. The original GM beam design is quite strong in compression and tension, yours not so much, adequate, but not as strong.

I'm a little tired of posting my resume' but it includes 18 years building and repairing jet engines at Pratt & Whitney, all phases of manufacturing and fabrication, 3 years formal training, 13 years at Sikorsky aircraft, assembly and overhaul, yada yada yada. I'm not an A&P mechanic but I do have a little experience. Now put your ***** away and go do something constuctive today.

jb78L-82

You are correct ! but you don't have to be a mechanical engineer to know that once you compromise the original structure anything done to reinforce the modification will be better than the non reinforced piece. Is the the reinforced piece as strong as the original? Probably not but you can get awfully close without a mechanical engineering degree-common sense and a basic understanding of physics and chemistry goes a long way….

gkull

George Carlin — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.'


Engineering 101: tubing is inherently stronger than an equal weight box tubing. Look how tiny the BTO tubing is for the 700R4/tko cross member is.

you don't see box tubing power poles or street lights for a reason. You don't see box tubing race car frames.

I have solid motor mounts because they don't break. I machined an aluminum block to the correct thickness for my tail shaft mount to get the correct drive line angle to cancel out vibrations and to make it ridged like my motor mounts. I have a aluminum block differential snubber and modified to solid differential cross member to hold the diff solidly in place. GM engineers built poor quality and planned obsolescence into most all moving and non moving parts. Like BJ out auto-Xing and the whole A-arm frame tearing apart. Or my need to gusset and add metal plated to fix my frame cracks near my lower A-arm rear bolts. My th350 was junk at 10,000 miles the rear end was so destroyed it went in the dumpster at 50,000. Very little on my Vette is original now with 165 k miles and I live in a rust free environment. Our yokes and outer spindles were real junk

SH-60B

How apropriate that you quoted a comedian instead of... oh I don't know, an engineer? LOFL. Hey, come to think of it you don't see light poles, power poles, or tube frame race cars with 3/4 of their diameter chopped out in the middle, hmm, wonder why?


It's official:

7t9l82

a Mechanical engineer could sign off on it and it could still break tomorrow.

commander_47

H and/or X pipes are a total scam to get you to waste your money on extra unnecessary piping.

All they do is affect sound.

NOT performance at all. In fact, they can lesson performance in certain bands.

If X and/ H pipes increased performance how come dragsters, formula 1, Nascar and a whole slew of other race cars DON"T use them?

My point is, properly installed headers on a TRUE duel (if you have an X or Y pipe you no longer have a true duel system. You have a single exhaust system with a sexy looking two exhaust pipes out the rear) will increase and add performance.

Incidentally, it is possible to install too big a diameter pipes that will actually decrease performance. A stocker will not benefit from huge exhaust pipes.