Will Gen VI 454 fit and are they worth building up?
06-21-2014, 07:58 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Will Gen VI 454 fit and are they worth building up?
I have a complete 1997 3500 truck with the Vortec Gen VI 454. I am curious if the complete engine with serpentine system, PS pump, AC etc will fit in an original BB car? My plan if so is to have PS and AC using most of the system out of the 1997. Current engine is NOM and I don't have original motor.
I have been looking around and haven't found much in upgrades guys have already done on a Gen VI BB, any suggestions or builds you can share?
I have been looking around and haven't found much in upgrades guys have already done on a Gen VI BB, any suggestions or builds you can share?
Last edited by 68Thunder427; 06-21-2014 at 08:05 AM.
06-21-2014, 09:38 AM
#2
Not sure about accessories, but heads from Mk4 fit I think with the gen6 gasket. Or you can call Victor Reinz they have the gasket/head compatability solved amongst mk4/gen5/gen6. Should be standard deck height. 6 timing bolts for the cover?
06-21-2014, 06:02 PM
#3
Drifting
I have a complete 1997 3500 truck with the Vortec Gen VI 454. I am curious if the complete engine with serpentine system, PS pump, AC etc will fit in an original BB car? My plan if so is to have PS and AC using most of the system out of the 1997. Current engine is NOM and I don't have original motor.
I have been looking around and haven't found much in upgrades guys have already done on a Gen VI BB, any suggestions or builds you can share?
I have been looking around and haven't found much in upgrades guys have already done on a Gen VI BB, any suggestions or builds you can share?
06-21-2014, 06:08 PM
#4
Pro
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Gen VI will fit (like all the 502´s do, like mine).
You may need a new (flat) oil pan, electrical fuel pump, and an adaptor for your clutch z-bar if you have one because the block may won´t have the thread for the ball head.
Maybe you will need a new clutch that fits to your tranny.
The rest will go in 1:1.
You may need a new (flat) oil pan, electrical fuel pump, and an adaptor for your clutch z-bar if you have one because the block may won´t have the thread for the ball head.
Maybe you will need a new clutch that fits to your tranny.
The rest will go in 1:1.
06-21-2014, 08:36 PM
#5
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Not suggesting this as you already have a block but GMPP has a nice one out now with better cooling jackets, FP provision thicker deck etc where all the late heads are interchangeable.
06-22-2014, 08:56 AM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
I am not an engine builder and was hoping to get a build for this engine (as budget friendly as possible) to get 450 hp. Can someone recommend a set up for me. I would like a little rumble from the cam also.
06-22-2014, 12:37 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Everything should fit fine..other then the swap to a Vette oil pan or better yet a Moroso pan.
Make sure you bore the block and hone it with a torque plate. The gen V/VIs have terrible cylinder prep and are usually ovaled... They use a ton of oil...
Other then some good forged pistons, the stock rods/crank will be fine.. The heads however are terrible (peanut ports). I would find some MK4 049/781 ovals and rebuild them.... Since you are buying pistons anyway, you can set the compression ratio up correctly for the open chamber 049/781s. A nice HYD roller will make an honest 500hp on this combo with an RPM intake. Verify the accessorie holes on the heads are the same so your truck accessories will bolt up.
Worst case scenario is keep the peanut port heads and have them worked over... But porting/changing valves will be more expensive then slapping on some 049s.
Make sure you bore the block and hone it with a torque plate. The gen V/VIs have terrible cylinder prep and are usually ovaled... They use a ton of oil...
Other then some good forged pistons, the stock rods/crank will be fine.. The heads however are terrible (peanut ports). I would find some MK4 049/781 ovals and rebuild them.... Since you are buying pistons anyway, you can set the compression ratio up correctly for the open chamber 049/781s. A nice HYD roller will make an honest 500hp on this combo with an RPM intake. Verify the accessorie holes on the heads are the same so your truck accessories will bolt up.
Worst case scenario is keep the peanut port heads and have them worked over... But porting/changing valves will be more expensive then slapping on some 049s.
06-22-2014, 01:18 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
06-22-2014, 03:34 PM
#9
Team Owner
Everything should fit fine..other then the swap to a Vette oil pan or better yet a Moroso pan.
Make sure you bore the block and hone it with a torque plate. The gen V/VIs have terrible cylinder prep and are usually ovaled... They use a ton of oil...
Other then some good forged pistons, the stock rods/crank will be fine.. The heads however are terrible (peanut ports). I would find some MK4 049/781 ovals and rebuild them.... Since you are buying pistons anyway, you can set the compression ratio up correctly for the open chamber 049/781s. A nice HYD roller will make an honest 500hp on this combo with an RPM intake. Verify the accessorie holes on the heads are the same so your truck accessories will bolt up.
Worst case scenario is keep the peanut port heads and have them worked over... But porting/changing valves will be more expensive then slapping on some 049s.
Make sure you bore the block and hone it with a torque plate. The gen V/VIs have terrible cylinder prep and are usually ovaled... They use a ton of oil...
Other then some good forged pistons, the stock rods/crank will be fine.. The heads however are terrible (peanut ports). I would find some MK4 049/781 ovals and rebuild them.... Since you are buying pistons anyway, you can set the compression ratio up correctly for the open chamber 049/781s. A nice HYD roller will make an honest 500hp on this combo with an RPM intake. Verify the accessorie holes on the heads are the same so your truck accessories will bolt up.
Worst case scenario is keep the peanut port heads and have them worked over... But porting/changing valves will be more expensive then slapping on some 049s.
You did not say your tranny type, but if it is an auto tranny and you do end up with 10.5 or so compression this might be a cam to look at.
Pay the extra for a billet steel with a sleeved distributor gear
HR-230/352-2S-12IG
http://www.cranecams.com/140-143.pdf
06-22-2014, 06:54 PM
#10
Pro
Thread Starter
You did not say your tranny type, but if it is an auto tranny and you do end up with 10.5 or so compression this might be a cam to look at.
Pay the extra for a billet steel with a sleeved distributor gear
HR-230/352-2S-12IG
http://www.cranecams.com/140-143.pdf
Last edited by 68Thunder427; 06-22-2014 at 06:57 PM.
06-22-2014, 08:23 PM
#11
Team Owner
Monty here on the forum is the only one i know of the used the 4L80E You could contact him and ask what tunnel mods etc. were required.
IMO a well build carbed motor is only marginally less fuel efficient as its EFI bother.
My buddy at the shop had his 1999 454 suburban start to run horribly. he only had 85,000 miles. The H roller lifters had actually worn troughs in the cam lobes. I guess it is a common failure.
He went with one of the milder cranes because it is a 4X4 and trailer puller
IMO a well build carbed motor is only marginally less fuel efficient as its EFI bother.
My buddy at the shop had his 1999 454 suburban start to run horribly. he only had 85,000 miles. The H roller lifters had actually worn troughs in the cam lobes. I guess it is a common failure.
He went with one of the milder cranes because it is a 4X4 and trailer puller
06-22-2014, 09:38 PM
#12
Pro
Thread Starter
Monty here on the forum is the only one i know of the used the 4L80E You could contact him and ask what tunnel mods etc. were required.
IMO a well build carbed motor is only marginally less fuel efficient as its EFI bother.
My buddy at the shop had his 1999 454 suburban start to run horribly. he only had 85,000 miles. The H roller lifters had actually worn troughs in the cam lobes. I guess it is a common failure.
He went with one of the milder cranes because it is a 4X4 and trailer puller
IMO a well build carbed motor is only marginally less fuel efficient as its EFI bother.
My buddy at the shop had his 1999 454 suburban start to run horribly. he only had 85,000 miles. The H roller lifters had actually worn troughs in the cam lobes. I guess it is a common failure.
He went with one of the milder cranes because it is a 4X4 and trailer puller
06-22-2014, 10:37 PM
#13
The serpentine system is real heavy cast iron and the air and alt are on the opposite sides. Comp Cams and Lunati make some decent cams for computer controlled efi.
You can hog out the intake manifold ports to match bigger heads. The throttle body mount boss can go to about 80mm.
You can hog out the intake manifold ports to match bigger heads. The throttle body mount boss can go to about 80mm.
06-23-2014, 12:12 AM
#14
Team Owner
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The serpentine system is real heavy cast iron and the air and alt are on the opposite sides. Comp Cams and Lunati make some decent cams for computer controlled efi.
You can hog out the intake manifold ports to match bigger heads. The throttle body mount boss can go to about 80mm.
You can hog out the intake manifold ports to match bigger heads. The throttle body mount boss can go to about 80mm.
Also, the 1997 BB engine...does this engine have the "peanut" heads? These later BB's had grossly restricted intake passages. The cylinder head intakes had a "fat U shaped" appearance...hence peanut. You don't want the U shaped intakes...you want the oval ports or maybe the rectangular ports from the early 70's BB's...or the modern Aluminum Heads from either GM Performance Parts Catalog or Edelbrock...they are the same..Edelbrock makes the GM modern BB aluminum heads.
If you want a BB, I suspect that a early 70's BB will be your friend...not really sure..someone have more expertise?
06-23-2014, 08:38 AM
#15
Absolutely..the cast iron brackets are grossly heavy. I bought the Serpentine BB kit from GM Performance Parts catalog and returned it. 105 pounds. The SB Serpentine Kit is really nice...cast aluminum brackets.
Also, the 1997 BB engine...does this engine have the "peanut" heads? These later BB's had grossly restricted intake passages. The cylinder head intakes had a "fat U shaped" appearance...hence peanut. You don't want the U shaped intakes...you want the oval ports or maybe the rectangular ports from the early 70's BB's...or the modern Aluminum Heads from either GM Performance Parts Catalog or Edelbrock...they are the same..Edelbrock makes the GM modern BB aluminum heads.
If you want a BB, I suspect that a early 70's BB will be your friend...not really sure..someone have more expertise?
Also, the 1997 BB engine...does this engine have the "peanut" heads? These later BB's had grossly restricted intake passages. The cylinder head intakes had a "fat U shaped" appearance...hence peanut. You don't want the U shaped intakes...you want the oval ports or maybe the rectangular ports from the early 70's BB's...or the modern Aluminum Heads from either GM Performance Parts Catalog or Edelbrock...they are the same..Edelbrock makes the GM modern BB aluminum heads.
If you want a BB, I suspect that a early 70's BB will be your friend...not really sure..someone have more expertise?
06-23-2014, 07:49 PM
#16
Pro
Thread Starter
Absolutely..the cast iron brackets are grossly heavy. I bought the Serpentine BB kit from GM Performance Parts catalog and returned it. 105 pounds. The SB Serpentine Kit is really nice...cast aluminum brackets.
Also, the 1997 BB engine...does this engine have the "peanut" heads? These later BB's had grossly restricted intake passages. The cylinder head intakes had a "fat U shaped" appearance...hence peanut. You don't want the U shaped intakes...you want the oval ports or maybe the rectangular ports from the early 70's BB's...or the modern Aluminum Heads from either GM Performance Parts Catalog or Edelbrock...they are the same..Edelbrock makes the GM modern BB aluminum heads.
If you want a BB, I suspect that a early 70's BB will be your friend...not really sure..someone have more expertise?
Also, the 1997 BB engine...does this engine have the "peanut" heads? These later BB's had grossly restricted intake passages. The cylinder head intakes had a "fat U shaped" appearance...hence peanut. You don't want the U shaped intakes...you want the oval ports or maybe the rectangular ports from the early 70's BB's...or the modern Aluminum Heads from either GM Performance Parts Catalog or Edelbrock...they are the same..Edelbrock makes the GM modern BB aluminum heads.
If you want a BB, I suspect that a early 70's BB will be your friend...not really sure..someone have more expertise?
06-24-2014, 02:32 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
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Tons of articles on line for high HP budget builds
Just google 454 budget build for some ideas.
I'm almost finished mine..70's 454, Speed Pro pistons, 10.5 compression, Pro Comp heads oval port, 305cc runners, 119cc combustion chambers, Edelbrock Performer intake , Crane 272 cam all ties together with ARP crank/rod /head bolts....going for a torky street motor 1400-5500 rpm range
Just google 454 budget build for some ideas.
I'm almost finished mine..70's 454, Speed Pro pistons, 10.5 compression, Pro Comp heads oval port, 305cc runners, 119cc combustion chambers, Edelbrock Performer intake , Crane 272 cam all ties together with ARP crank/rod /head bolts....going for a torky street motor 1400-5500 rpm range
07-26-2014, 10:21 AM
#18
Instructor
I went the same with my build; 454 (2 bolt) .60 over; Lunati steel stroker crank (496) roller cam tops out 5800; 5 speed over drive Keisler; 3:55 rear. I want to go serpentine up front and am wondering what is the best bracket set up. Intake concerns may force an L88 hood. Definitly electric fans and heavy duty radiator. not sure about fuel delivery; pump or electric. Starter issue, I ended up with a mini torque starter. Exhaust is 2 1/2 stainless; have Magna flow mufflers. Anyone got a recommendation for BB serpentine brackets? If I do ac it will be after market Vintage.
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07-26-2014, 10:22 AM
#19
Instructor
Tons of articles on line for high HP budget builds
Just google 454 budget build for some ideas.
I'm almost finished mine..70's 454, Speed Pro pistons, 10.5 compression, Pro Comp heads oval port, 305cc runners, 119cc combustion chambers, Edelbrock Performer intake , Crane 272 cam all ties together with ARP crank/rod /head bolts....going for a torky street motor 1400-5500 rpm range
Just google 454 budget build for some ideas.
I'm almost finished mine..70's 454, Speed Pro pistons, 10.5 compression, Pro Comp heads oval port, 305cc runners, 119cc combustion chambers, Edelbrock Performer intake , Crane 272 cam all ties together with ARP crank/rod /head bolts....going for a torky street motor 1400-5500 rpm range
07-26-2014, 01:53 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
The cylinders are not true or honed correctly....(no torque plate). Most of the time the cylinders are egg shaped in the middle of the bore.
A good bore job and some forged pistons and you're good to go..