hudman

As those of you that have been following my saga know, I took delivery of a nice '68 427 roadster 3-4 weeks ago. I had been searching for a driver that was cosmetically and mechanically correct (most likely non matching numbers as I did not want to pay for a matching numbers car). My criteria was simple. It had to be a BB 4-speed roadster, and it had to be visually correct (interior, exterior, engine bay, etc.). I had no interest in any cars that had been altered or modified in any way away from an appearance standpoint (no aftermarket hoods, rims, etc). In other words, I basically wanted a restored original looking car, I just did not want to pay for a matching numbers car. Not an easy task to find one.

After almost a year of searching, I found a car in the Mid West that had recent paint, recent interior, both tops, and with an engine bay that looked like a survivor from an appearance standpoint. A few things were not correct, but it basically looked original. A little R & R and it would be perfect, though. It had correct valve covers, ignition shield, etc. Interior and exterior were perfectly correct. No aftermarket hot rod stuff.

I purchased the car under the assumption that it was a 1967 427 motor casting #3904351 which my book confirmed was used in 1967 vettes 390, 400, 430, and 435HP cars. The guy specifically told me that it was a '67 390 hp motor, and after confirming the casting number, I took him for his word.

I have had the car only 3-4 weeks and really have not done a lot to it. The only other numbers that I looked at were the block casting number and the manifold number. The manifold number is 3937793 which is the correct number for the '68 390 hp motor. Therefore, I just assumed that at some point in the past someone had blown up the motor and got their hands on a '67 390 hp block and switched it out with the bad '68 block. For whatever reason, I never looked any further. I did not even check the number on the pad.

That is, until today. I was showing the car off to a friend of mine today and was explaining to him the situation about the engine being a '67 and without without really looking for it just stumbled across the pad number: T0120IT.

I came home tonight and looked it up. Sure enough, my book says that this is an L88 block. Am I missing something here?

I realize the blocks were the same, but this block at least at some point was in an L88 vette. The car does not have an L88 intake and does not have aluminum heads, but this is about all I can visually inspect. It may have L88 guts? I do not have any idea what is inside. I do know that for whatever reason, the car does not run well on anything but 100 octane racing gas which has led me to believe that it has higher compression. I do not know what to think at this point.

Have I stumbled across a unique find? Is the car more valuable with this block or is it still just a nice non matching numbers BB?

Regardless, I think it is pretty cool to have a L88 block. Were there any other differences to speak of in the block?

Please advise. Thanks.

bigvette1

Look on the passengers side front of the head/block junction for the casting #. See if it is the L88. Pull one of the valve covers and see what the heads say. Should say Hi-Perf. and a head number that you can look up. Can you tell if you have solids or hydralic lifters? Clack - clack or tick tick. If you say you can only run on 100 octane you probably have the 12.5:1 compression setup. Interesting.

Vetterodder

If that block can be verified as an original `67 IT code it may be worth several times the what you paid for the whole car! There were only 20 engines produced with that code in `67. The owner of the car that this engine came out of could expect it's value to increase by several hundred thousand dollars by installing it's original engine. Keep in mind that many more L88 engines have been faked than were ever produced by the factory and the odds are greatly against you having a real one. They also sold many more L88 engines over the counter than they installed in cars (for all years, not just `67). If the stamp has a vin, post it and someone here will probably be able to tell you if it's real or not. If it doesn't have a vin, it would be a block from an over the counter engine. A quick verification of whether or not it's a 390/400 hp block or a 4 bolt L71, L72, or L88 block is to look for a plugged outlet (to add an oil cooler) just above the oli filter. The 4 bolt blocks had this but not the 390/400 hydraulic cammed engines.

hudman

When you say to check to see if it has a VIN-Does the VIN follow the T0120IT code?

When you say that the plug is right above the oil filter-Where do I look if I am looking up under the car up at the oil filter?

I am a novice-Please help!


[Modified by hudman, 6:16 AM 7/6/2002]

hudman

I checked and there is no VIN on the pad. Just "T0120IT". The rest of the pad is blank.

So I guess based on the previous post we can assume it is an over the counter L88 block. What does this do to the value of my car? I realize it would be worth a lot if it had come out of a car.

How did they sell these? Just the block or did they come as complete engines? How rare is this?


[Modified by hudman, 3:25 PM 7/6/2002]

hudman

Help guys. What do I have? Anything special?

Matt Gruber

L88 blocks are aluminum
check with a magnet :cheers:

GrandSportC3

I think that L88 blocks were cast iron. Only the ZL-1 had an aluminum block. The ZL-1 was basically the same engine as the L-88 exept that it had an aluminum block! However - I might be wrong about that...

:cheers:

Olivier

geopar

Hi . Need some more info . Please provide the serial number of the vette , the trim tag info , and the casting date of the block(located just in front of the starter on the side of the block) . Some other things to look at : one fuel line only, or a return line too ? Red line of tach , rear sway bar , heavier front sway bar , special J-50 brakes , is there a valve located below the master cylinder , is there a radio , a/c , ( or appearence of ever having a/c ) , have you looked for the tank sticker , how many miles on the odometer , what type of exhaust system , can you ger the VIN and other #'s on the transmision , is there a shrould for the radiator , what type of hood , any pics , radiator overflow tank , points or tranistorized ignition (will want to look left of the driver's side headlamp assembly--mounted on the front of the inner fender-- for the "amp" or evidence of the two mounting holes for same)????? I know that is a lot to look for ---- the vin , trim plate info , and casting date of the block will tell us a lot . Geo

Matt Gruber

i've never seen either.so i don't know for sure.

i've never seen anybody give away a rare $1/4 million vette.

Anybody can stamp numbers, i stamped my pad wth my drivers license #, so if it is stolen, i might get it back.

if hudman got this car 25 years ago anything was possible then.
The buyer here specifically requested a non-matching car, and the seller was thrilled since everbody else was looking for a cheap treasure. No way this is any buried treasure. But it is fun to dream about getting rich without any effort. :sleep:


[Modified by drives61, 11:24 AM 7/6/2002]

Corey_68

Nope, you are right Oliver. :yesnod:

GrandSportC3

I checked the numbers: T0120IT

It looks to me as if it is a 68 - L-88 replacement block.

T = Code for Engine Plant
0120 = January 20
IT = 427ci, 430hp (L88), manual transmission 1967/1968

:cheers:

Olivier

WESCH

Hi
As far as I know, all blocks for L71, L89 and L88 where the same casting number and should be 3916321 ( your's different ? )
L71 and L89 had the same guts, but different heads.
L88 had higher compression and the alu L89 heads.
Just the suffix code stamped onto the pad was different.
What's the date code of the block.
It should be below the R/H exhaust aft of the starter motor, casted into the block .
Could be a interesting block for a correct numbers matching resto.
I'm still looking for a correctly dated block for my early 68 big block, but all the once I found are over 1500 US$ ( bare block ) and most need rework .
Does anybody know of a 427 CI block, casting 3916321 dated late 67, like H or I ( H137 ) , condition doesn't matter ?
Gunther :seeya


[Modified by WESCH, 10:56 AM 7/6/2002]

SBR

Did you check to see if the block has four bolt mains? You can check by the oil filter to see if there is a square plug on top of the filter. All L88 blocks are iron with four bolt mains with aluminum heads. Good luck.

hudman

Thanks for all the input.

I think some clarification is needed here.

I do NOT think I have found a long lost L88 roadster. The car is clearly not an L88. I never thought that it was.

Geopar, a lot of the things you asked me to look for seem to try and determine whether it is an L88 car. It is not that. Thus, I do not think I found $150K car for 1/10 of that.

I guess my theory is that I have an L88 replacement block in a BB roadster. It is my belief the car was just a base 390 hp car. The seller thought the block was just a 390 hp block from '67 or he would have hyped it up. The block has not been restamped, no reason to. I might be suspicious if someone was trying to sell me an L88 car.

The only treasure here is that I have a 4 bolt bullet proof L88 block when I thought I only had the 2 bolt 427. That has to be worth something.

I will pull together the other pertinent info and post later. I have to run now.

Hudman

hudman

The stamp on the block next to the starter is D 18 7.

At the oil filter, there is an outlet that now has what I believe to the oil pressure sending unit coming out of it and then a inch or so above that there are 2 more outlets (one is slightly bigger than the other one). Neither have a plug in them but appear to be threaded. Could one of these be the oil cooler outlet or am I not looking at the right place?

Right next to that is a large K and Hi Perf stamped in the block.

What does all of this mean?

oger

GM sold hundreds of 67 L88 crate short blocks. They were about $400.00 in the early 70s. You just got one of those.

Tom73

Your block # 3904351 is a '67 427. That was the main block casting used for 67 Vette 427s (two other numbers are listed but as uncertin usage). So the block # is nothing special. The IT suffix is for a 67 and 68 L88. The casting date is April 18, 67. So it was a block originaly used for a 67 L88. But since the stamp pad only has the usage code and no vin code I would have to say it was never installed in a car, was more then likely a crate engine.

By the way, Mortec show that block as being 2 or 4 bolt. If L88 it would be 4 bolt. [could always be that someone had started to build a fake and had restamped the block with the usage code but not the Vin as they did not know the car is was going in at that point.]

Sounds like you have the basis for a very good street engine.

tom...

KingRat

The assembly date of January 20 is inconsistent with the block casting date of April 18, 1967 so it can't be used in a '67 L88. The engine assembly date on the stamp pad has to be after the casting date on the block. Right, it could be January of 1968 but I am pretty sure they didn't install the 3904351 block in '68 Vettes. The block is possibly over-the-counter.

hudman

This block was definitely installed after the fact. It did not come in the car, so the dates could be April 67 cast date to Jan 68 build date. Seems like a long time to me though. Is this normal?