Little Mouse

I have a question is keisler going to keep selling the TKO 600 or is the SS700 going to be its replacement? if the SS700 is its replacement could they be telling you 9 months on the SS700 so they can sell off TKO600s they already have in stock need to get rid of. Another company selling the SS700 ? M21 is a weak transmission.

zuendler

No, they said I should ask again in 3 months for a delivery date of the SS700. So I expect a least 6 months from that point on. Maybe more! We know the waiting stories here in the forum. I don´t know if they will replace the TKO 600 with it. But I think they won´t as long as there are people buying it. And at the moment it´s their only strong tranny. The sad thing is, that even for this old thing you have to wait 6 weeks or longer when ordering at Keisler.

MotorHead

M21 is good for 3**TQ. The muncie trannies were good for the time period but you could blow one with numerous cars right out of the showroom

Shark Racer

If you're dead set on the TKO, find out about the shifting upgrades you can get for it. See what Liberty Gear's timeframe is on it. I was skeptical, but I own one now. The 2-3 shift is garbage. Mine will hang up going 2-3 at even 5000 RPM, let alone the 6500+ you hear about.

_Really_ wish I went with a T56.

Little Mouse

can you fiX your M21 or pick up a used transmission to use until you can get the SS700 then resale the tempory trans. This is a large expense for either the TKO or SS700. I only have an article I read on the SS700 to go by but there is no compairing the TKO to the SS700. I would either patch up what I have find another usable say borg warner super t-10 drive it easy until I could get the better trans. There are many people around pulled out there trans still in good shape wanting a 5 speed vettes to camaro's.

zuendler

Y, but I am in Germany - and all I found at dealers here were two 5 speed Richmond with 1:1 5th.
My engine will never see more than 6000rpm, usually my maximum shift is at 5500, and this is seldom.

MotorHead

Problem is your all pumped up racing the car and you forget about the was you are supposed to do 2-3 and you mash it in like any tranny. You have to push it in and across with the palm of your hand. A lot of wasted runs until you can get it to go with confidence

68/70Vette

The Richmond 5 speeds are only rated for 450 ft-lbs. This transmission was created and originally as a Doug Dash 5 speed transmission. I think they were used in NASCAR race cars. Nash went bankrupt and sold the tranny to Richmond. Richmond degraded the quality of the gears to lower the price...and also lowered the torque handling rating. I don't know what the torque ratings of the Doug Nash trannys were, but notionally they had a reputation of being tough.

I had a Doug Nash on a 69 BB with a clone L88. For my 70 BB I was planning on using a Richmond 5 speed until I discovered they are only rated at 450 ft-lbs. I switched to a TKO 600 five speed...and also had to change my diff ratio $$!! The TKO 600 is 600..650..? foot pounds.

I have a TKO 600 in my 68 ZZ4 (395 hp). Little bit of overkill to have a TKO600 with a SB, but it's a really nice tranny ...shifts just great..better than the stock Muncie. I have the Centerforce Dual Friction in the 68. The TKO 600 and the Centerforce dual friction work out just great. In the 70, it's the McLeod Dual Disk. l

Super6

I bought my TKO600 in July of 2008 from Keisler, since then they have added an upgraded shifter. I don't have my clutch pedal hooked up right now, but I could tell that the new one is spring-loaded to the 3-4 gate with a much stronger spring, so it should pop into 3rd a lot better. I have to say though that in the 5 years I've had the TKO, I only messed up the shift 3 times and that was after I heard about the problem and was over-thinking it during the 2-3 shift. Plenty of 6000 to 6500rpm shifts on mine too. The swap only took about 10 minutes with the tranny out of the car. It shouldn't take much longer in the car, you just need to add the time to do the console and shift boot removal. New Keisler TKOs already have this upgraded shifter.

zuendler

Btw: Does the TKO come with oil in it?

Super6

No, sir.

roscobbc

When is someone going to release an aftermarket gearbox with ratios for us higher torque big block guys - I want the 4 ratios of a M21/22 - i.e 2.20 / 1.64 / 1.28 / 1.00 and an additional 5th overdrive ratio of, say .50 or .60 so that with my 3.08 rear end I can cruise at 70mph turning 1300/1500 rpm.

zuendler

The trigger is pulled:

I wanted a TKO 600 KIT with everything needed
+ Hurst handle & Ball
+ several speedo drive gears

First try: Keisler:
Communication was ok.
Could get the Kit, the handle and ball, and an additional speedo gear.
Price was between AMP and Hurst.
But delivery time: 6 weeks. And knowing the experiences here with their estimated delivery times: no way!

While waiting for an answer from Keisler I found AMP on ebay:
They had the best price for the Kit with a low performance clutch.
When going to a better clutch, price went up of course, then there was to add throw out bearing, pilot bearing and such small things. AND the most expensive shipping costs. But he would have given me a set of all speedo gears he had for free. After all AMP was the expesivest of the 3. But could ship right now.
Communication with AMP was the best of all suppliers.
What I didn´t trust so much were their kit items, the brackets locked like made of scrap on the pics, and no comment about the quality of the driveshaft, and now screws etc. included.
And the Hurst Handle was not available at AMP.
Btw: the shifter from AMP looks exactly like the one from american powertrain.

Then I gave Hurst a try, because I liked the construction design of their new shifter.
Communication was not so good. Got hardly feedback on emails, had to call them often to clearify everthing for the deal.
The Hurst Kit is expensiver than the others. But with free shipping its the cheapest of all.
There was no way to get them to put some more speedogears into the package. Well, I found the gears on JEGs now.
The same with their clutch, its pricy. You could get the same clutch at summit for $100 less.
In the end, the best package came from Hurst. Including the shifter handle I wanted, the new designed shifter and a good hardware kit, all parts in stock and still the best price of all.
When leaving the clutch out (what I did) and ordering seperately, you can save additional bucks.

So you have to take a close look on all offers, they all get the nearly same amount of money from you (they were all within a $170 range in the end) but in different ways.

Keisler Automotive

zuendler,

You can pay a small expedite fee and get the unit in 3 weeks. We are doing this for customers in a rush. We don't like it, but don't want to lose the business. And the Keisler product remains the top quality and shift performance of any TKO on the market. Just ask the above mentioned names offering knock-offs of our kit and see if they will install a full set of 5 carbon fiber lined blocker rings for 1st thru 5th for $300. Then ask them if they actually disassemble the transmissions in house to change a blocker ring. I think you will find the answer is NO.
- Shafi Keisler

CheezMoe

I think the shifting issue is really more Technique! From what i understand the Liberty Gear mode makes it behave more like a muncie with an external shifter. Lots of time and money to tear down a brand new trans! I have had my TKO600 in for just 200 miles and shifting it through the H pattern is indeed a learning experience. You cannot jam it into third like the old days, because under high adrenil you are bound to move it too far right. The shifter type also affects this...but as i drive this thing I am quickly learning that a flip of the wrist is all thats needed. If I was drag racing the car as its only purpose I would be concerned, but then again I would run an automatic.

Personally the only other trans I would consider is the Richmond Street 5, but they also have long backorder times!

CheezMoe

Verifiable stats on this claim please???

zuendler

Hello Shafi,

I like your feedback in this forum. Thats something that makes a company more confident for me and others. No wonder if someone thinks about a TKO swap, the first recomends are Keisler.
Honestly, if you had had the Set in stock, I wouldn´t have done a search on the net and just ordered from you.
Take it as a chance for improvement. You need to have complete sets in stock, for people who need replacement asap.

Carbon blocker rings are not needed for my application, so its not fair to compare this point.

I shift usually at 5000 when I race the egnine seldom higher, so I should be fine as it is.
Btw: all trannys I had in my cars did self center the handle in the middle of the H, between 3 and 4. So I am familar in pushing the stick just forward to get in 3.
But I will see how it will work and I will feel with the TKO.

zuendler

I had more than 4 months time to polish my GM bellhousing...



Then it arrived last week:





(Today I am lucky that there is a "H" on the transmission, and not a "KE" because I would have never received this)

Now Im going to install the TKO:
- Hurst recomends in the manual to dial in the bellhousing if it is a stock GM housing. I thought this is only necessary for aftermarket housings (?)
- For assembly with the motor in the car they write to attach the belhousing to the transmission, then putting the pressure plate and clutch on the input shaft an lifting it all up with the jack. Then mounting the clutch to the flywheel, using the centering tool.
Well, why do I need to stick the clutch onto the input shaft when I have to remove it again to mount it on the tilted engine?

Super6

There is not enough room to pull the tranny back far enough for the input shaft to go into the center of the pressure plate if it is mounted to the flywheel ahead of time. Re-read that part of the installation instructions.

zuendler

Thats not described.
I can only imagine that the inputshaft will stick in the last 1" of the pressure plate, where it has a 2" diameter inside and can be wide angled.
And in this situation I have to put in the alignment tool and mount the clutch?
Sounds very funny...urgs...