Go Back   Corvette Forum > C3 Corvettes, 1968 - 1982 > C3 Tech/Performance
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ Vendor Directory
Search
C3 Tech/Performance
V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette Sponsored by
VBP

Welcome to Corvetteforum.com!
Welcome to Corvetteforum.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join Corvetteforum.com today!


Corvette Store
 
 
C7 Parts & Accessories
C6 Parts & Accessories
C5 Parts & Accessories
C4 Parts & Accessories
C3 Parts & Accessories
C2 Parts & Accessories
C1 Parts & Accessories
Wheels & Tires
Sponsored Ads
 
 
Vendor Directory
  
Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-01-2013, 04:50 AM   #1
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default Turbocharging: What engine to choose?

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice as to what engine I should pick to turbocharge. Currently I have a 383 Stroker N/A in my 1979 C3 Vette, but it's too high of compression to even consider FI. I kind of want to know what route should I take, stick with sbc's? Or should I invest in a LS series engine? I would think the LS series blocks would be better due to their better design. But could a sbc still be as good? Possibly more budget friendly?

I'm sure I am leaving out some important details to include. I am new to any type of FI. If I do happen to stick with a sbc design, what would you recommend? Appreciate any advice!

Thanks,
Blake
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:49 AM   #2
76strokervette
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Nov 2011
Location: Willoughby Ohio
Default

I would reccomend you start with an aftermarket block and forged
rotating assembly.Then get a good pair of aluminum heads to top it off.
What kind of power output are you looking for?Either platform can be
done to make serious power.The sbc route will require fewer special parts.Starting with a dart or world products block is where I would start.They both have many improvements over factory blocks.
76strokervette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 08:26 AM   #3
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76strokervette View Post
I would reccomend you start with an aftermarket block and forged
rotating assembly.Then get a good pair of aluminum heads to top it off.
What kind of power output are you looking for?Either platform can be
done to make serious power.The sbc route will require fewer special parts.Starting with a dart or world products block is where I would start.They both have many improvements over factory blocks.
Yes. I was planning on going with top of the line parts, everything will be forged, better safe than sorry for this build. I was looking at summit at a 427ci small block dart block to begin my build. And then I saw a LS block as well. I didn't know if the LS series would be a better choice because of better flow, design, easier to keep street legal. As of now I'm working on the rear end then working my way up.

Power output, I would like to hit 700-900.

It is running on an TH350 transmission. I thought about putting in a T56. But I am wondering if I would benefit more with a taller gear transmission so the turbos have more time to spool up? Sorry if my theory sounds ridiculious, newbie to boost.
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 12:38 PM   #4
76strokervette
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Nov 2011
Location: Willoughby Ohio
Default

With that short block you'll be running around 11 to 1 compression
with 75cc heads,way too high for forced induction.At that power level
you will have to upgrade to 12 bolt differential.At 900hp the little m
block would be the way to go.Do you have a budget in mind?I would try to figure out what you have to spend then start waying options.
This gets real expensive real fast!For the differential get ahold of traccdog on this forum.You will need dished pistons to run the turbo at
any level of boost.Where are you located?Maybe others can reccomend
a reputable shop near you.
76strokervette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 03:37 PM   #5
Gale Banks 80'
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Nov 2008
Default

If I was starting from scratch I would work from the Fuel Injection sytem backwards. I would decide if I was going to use an OEM Computor and Intake Mainfold or Aftermarket. How the Exhaust Mainfolds will be configured and the Plumbing it takes to get to the Intake. Intercooled or not. Once You have a plan here then You can work with the Intake Mainfod design You choose then the Engine itself will fall in place. For example a late Lt1 design might work well if You are going to have the Turbo's up high and up front and have them gravity drain Oil back to the pan. Many of the LS Intakes also fall into this Plan. The Engine it self, be it SBC or LS, can all be built using HD parts from the same manufatures so one Engine family really dosen't have a advantage over the other.
Gale Banks 80' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:00 PM   #6
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76strokervette View Post
With that short block you'll be running around 11 to 1 compression
with 75cc heads,way too high for forced induction.At that power level
you will have to upgrade to 12 bolt differential.At 900hp the little m
block would be the way to go.Do you have a budget in mind?I would try to figure out what you have to spend then start waying options.
This gets real expensive real fast!For the differential get ahold of traccdog on this forum.You will need dished pistons to run the turbo at
any level of boost.Where are you located?Maybe others can reccomend
a reputable shop near you.
Even if it's a bare block? I'd figured I start with a bare block then built it from stratch. That way I could select the right pistons and heads to have lower compression.
As for budget. Really don't have one. I plan on building as I go, once my rear end and transmission are up to specs. And I have talked traccdog. I'm currently saving up my money to get his setup. I want to make sure the rest of the car is able to handle the power before I consider the build of course.
I am Located near Pittsburgh PA.
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:06 PM   #7
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale Banks 80' View Post
If I was starting from scratch I would work from the Fuel Injection sytem backwards. I would decide if I was going to use an OEM Computor and Intake Mainfold or Aftermarket. How the Exhaust Mainfolds will be configured and the Plumbing it takes to get to the Intake. Intercooled or not. Once You have a plan here then You can work with the Intake Mainfod design You choose then the Engine itself will fall in place. For example a late Lt1 design might work well if You are going to have the Turbo's up high and up front and have them gravity drain Oil back to the pan. Many of the LS Intakes also fall into this Plan. The Engine it self, be it SBC or LS, can all be built using HD parts from the same manufatures so one Engine family really dosen't have a advantage over the other.
I was planning on Fuel Injecting my sbc as well. But now knowing that they don't have much of advantages over eachother is good to know. In my 79 all A/C stuff is gone. So there is some room under the hood. Mostly on the right side. Is the ls/lt engines smaller in size? Or roughly similar in size to a sbc?
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:58 PM   #8
MelWff
CF Senior Member
 
MelWff's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: Danbury CT
Default

wouldnt it make more sense to go with a assembled engine from a company that knows what parts to use, what clearances to use, etc. rather than risk experimenting on your own

http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm
MelWff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #9
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelWff View Post
wouldnt it make more sense to go with a assembled engine from a company that knows what parts to use, what clearances to use, etc. rather than risk experimenting on your own

http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm
That is a beautiful setup. I wouldn't mind buying their turbo kit. My father will also be helping me with my build. He is my go to guy for sbc building. It's just you don't know whether if it was someone lazy who assembled your engine that could care less if it blows up. But either way you still make a valid point.
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 11:22 PM   #10
uxojerry
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Member Since: Sep 2011
Default

You can lower the compression on your current 383 with larger chamber heads, thicker gasket, and/or piston swap. I would then get a blow thru carb and turbo the current motor. When all of the bugs are worked out on the turbo system, you can upgrade the motor to an LSX or big cube SBC with efi. Buy turbos suitable for your next big cube LSX/SBC and let the blow off valves keep the boost suitable for the 383. One advantage to a blow thru carb, is you may get by without an intercooler. EFI does not have the same cooling properties as the blow thru set up.
uxojerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 02:22 AM   #11
Gale Banks 80'
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Nov 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxojerry View Post
You can lower the compression on your current 383 with larger chamber heads, thicker gasket, and/or piston swap. I would then get a blow thru carb and turbo the current motor. When all of the bugs are worked out on the turbo system, you can upgrade the motor to an LSX or big cube SBC with efi. Buy turbos suitable for your next big cube LSX/SBC and let the blow off valves keep the boost suitable for the 383. One advantage to a blow thru carb, is you may get by without an intercooler. EFI does not have the same cooling properties as the blow thru set up.
I would just love to hear how a Blow threw Carb from the 1970's could cool the the Charge Air better than a Modern FI set up.
Gale Banks 80' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 03:28 AM   #12
uxojerry
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Member Since: Sep 2011
Default

Why dont you go to the yellowbullet and look in the turbo or supercharged section. There are a lot of fast cars using a blowthru carbs. Since the fuel and air charge mix in the carb, it has a significant cooling effect, especially if E85 is used. Port injection is going mix fuel/air in the combustion chamber therefore little to no cooling effect. There are lot of magazine articles on this subject.
uxojerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #13
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxojerry View Post
You can lower the compression on your current 383 with larger chamber heads, thicker gasket, and/or piston swap. I would then get a blow thru carb and turbo the current motor. When all of the bugs are worked out on the turbo system, you can upgrade the motor to an LSX or big cube SBC with efi. Buy turbos suitable for your next big cube LSX/SBC and let the blow off valves keep the boost suitable for the 383. One advantage to a blow thru carb, is you may get by without an intercooler. EFI does not have the same cooling properties as the blow thru set up.
I did have this thought at one time. But I wanted to go with bigger cubed motor or with a LSx swap. But I was told it would be more of a pain than it would be worth, was recommended to start from scratch. Besides there are some parts I would have to replace due to some parts not being forged.
I did read something about the benefits of a blowthrough carb, someone said something about the fact that the carb would have less electronics, therefor less heat generated. Not sure if a true statement. But I will have to research some more.
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:12 AM   #14
3X2
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Blue Bell, PA
Default

Be different. Call me insane, but I'd go with a DLS 274" Buick V6. That'll get their attention.
3X2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #15
Blazekillerace
CF Member
 
Member Since: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X2 View Post
Be different. Call me insane, but I'd go with a DLS 274" Buick V6. That'll get their attention.
Hahah. That would be different. I actually think I saw a pic of a red c3 with a twin turbo buick v6 in it. It looked very snugged as if it came that way. Was a neat setup. I think I found the pic on google when I typed in the search bar "c3 corvette twin turbo".
Blazekillerace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 10:06 AM   #16
ajrothm
CF Senior Member
 
ajrothm's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: League City Tx
Default

5.3l LS/4l60e from a junk yard. eBay turbos and universal pipe kit/intercooler for the cold side.. Custom built hot side from stainless. A good fuel system.. 600rwhp no problem... Do it all for less then $8k

Have fun getting it all in there tho..

LS is the way to go here for sure. Utilize the factory ECU..
__________________

10.59@127.52, ALL MOTOR


H2 Racing Forged/Iron 402", MAST 245s, ARUN STG 2 Cam, A&A Pro-Charger F1R, RPM Level 7 4L60e 9.96@149 w/m6, 9.22@151 w/auto
ajrothm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 12:04 PM   #17
Gale Banks 80'
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Nov 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxojerry View Post
Why dont you go to the yellowbullet and look in the turbo or supercharged section. There are a lot of fast cars using a blowthru carbs. Since the fuel and air charge mix in the carb, it has a significant cooling effect, especially if E85 is used. Port injection is going mix fuel/air in the combustion chamber therefore little to no cooling effect. There are lot of magazine articles on this subject.
I could see that a Fuel mixed with the Charge Air could cause a cooling effect but since both the Fuel and the Air are drawn ( or in this case pushed) into the Combustion Chamber I think its moog point. Even if it did do something all the Engines we deal with are port injected not direct injected so it should have the same effect. We could argue over what stays cooler, a fuel bowl or a fuel rail I guess.
I can say that the best thing I have ever done to my set up was to watch my Carb sell for pennys on e-bay. I had spent 20 years tunning it, probably spent 3k on it sending it to Gale Banks, Turbo Engineering, Barry Grant and at least 3 or 4 other Carb people. The moment I started the Engine with my Accel Gen 7 I knew I was on to something better. Since I have never fouled a plug, delt with the stink of un burned fuel, or melted an exhaust valve from runing to lean. The car now runs clean, its got way less turbo lag and the throdle responce is night and day better. I now am able to run more timing with out detination.
There is a reason why the people who still make Turbo Kits don't use Carbs anymore. Turbocharging and the ECM were made for each other.
Gale Banks 80' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #18
bluedawg
CF Senior Member
 
bluedawg's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: anchorage ak
Default

Fwiw, Ive also read in various places about e85s cooling effects on forced induction. They say it really cools a roots blower. But you know, its the net and every thing you read on the net is true.
bluedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2013, 12:18 AM   #19
uxojerry
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Member Since: Sep 2011
Default

Turn Key Engine Supply has a nice LS turbo motor with 680hp for $19k. If I wanted an LS motor and I wanted to go turbo, I would do something like the turn key package and avoid a lot of headaches.


For less money you can boost what you have and get 680hp. A blow thru carb is not superior to efi, it is just a cheaper route to get there. A procharger and blow thru would do the same thing and be much simpler in design and installation. Pick your poison, lol.
uxojerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 10:56 AM   #20
Ibanez540r
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Ibanez540r's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Brunswick Ohio
Default

Are you absolutely set on Turbos? You could build a supercharged motor with a roots blower with that power easily and avoid all the hassle of fitment AND save money.
Ibanez540r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Go Back   Corvette Forum > C3 Corvettes, 1968 - 1982 > C3 Tech/Performance
Reload this Page Turbocharging: What engine to choose?
 
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Click for Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:23 AM.


Emails & Password Backup

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2