L-82kid

In the past 15months(less then 2,000miles of driving) I've had 3 mini high torque starters fail on me. They all failed the same way each time. New starter gets installed, car starts normal and works prefect for a few months and then randomly fails. What happened each time was the starter got stuck spinning all the time. It sounds like a loud blender running in engine bay when car is off! If i put the key in on position(not trying to start car just in forward position) the starter is stuck spinning, not engaging the flywheel but just stuck spinning retracted. If i turn key off spinning stops, put key back in forward position and the spinning starts again. The first starter from last year that failed.. wouldn't engage when I tried to start car, i had to get flat bedded home. The second one failed in the same way but that time I was able to get it started and and drove car home with the starter spinning whole time during the short drive home.

After the 2nd one failed I called summit racing and they told me to upgrade to a better mini torque starter. So I did and the new-- better starter lasted 2.5months this time. Yesterday I went out to garage for a cruise, put the key in, and noticed the starter stuck spinning again. I was able to start it but the starter will not stop spinning if the key is in on position.

I keep sending these back to summit for a warranty exchange but 3 brand new starters in 15months is crazy, must be another issue causing problem.

I think that the starters are getting too hot and something internally is getting welded together or shorted. Maybe too much amp draw across starter lug?

I run an MSD pro billet dist. locked out of 32deg of timing, but my ignition box pulls 10deg on start. So I have 22deg of timing when starting which might add more stress on starter when hot but its not really too much timing.

I run a quick start 200amp CS144 alternator because the stock one couldn't keep up. I run an electric fuel pump, electric fans, and Mallory ignition box.

The starter is wired like stock except I added a second 10gauge wire from alternator to starter to handle the new alternator.

Could this problem be caused by cheap quality starters, 200amp alternator, or wiring?

Should I remove the wiring that goes form alternator to starter and run a larger gauge wire directly to battery from alternator instead?


Has anyone else run into a similar issue on here?

I can search my garage and find the stock starter to put in to get me going again but I don't think it will fit with my hooker headers. If this is being caused by wiring or alternator issue then the stock starter will eventually have the same issue.


any input or suggestions would help me out.

82 beerhunter

are you getting back feed from the ignition sysytem in the on (run position)to the start wire?I had a similar problem with a mini starter on my boat engine tilton has a fix is to install a blocking diode in the ignition feed so it cant back feed in the run position.the diode is available at radio shack .it is needed because the mini solonoide only has a crank feed to get power to ignition in the crank mode the stock starter had a ignition feed on the solonoide that mechanicaly dropped out after the start position was released.I could be way off but I did go through several "hi tourque minis " as you cant hear that noist in a boat . check on it . by the way thanks for the side mounts! will post pics when I get them on. good luck

RDCRIS

I went through this same problem. I added a heavy ground wire bolted to the starter then to the frame. Don't rely on the block to make the ground even though I had this grounded too. Make sure all of your connections are clean/no paint/grease. Have not had a problem since.

427Hotrod

Usually starter issues are caused by low voltage (voltage drop). Think of how a welder acts when you turn the amperage down too low. The rod sticks and it doesn't weld. The solenoid on the starter operates due to the magnetic field within that draws the contacts together. If the current available is low...you get a similar *arc* effect and eventually the contacts weld together. When that happens it stays engaged electrically. When you put a new one on everything is fresh until it gets pitted up from each time it is "arc'd" when you hit the key. Eventually it sticks together again. And on and on it goes.

I'd start with a good voltage drop test that draws current at the starter through the cables. Find someone with an Autometer BVA 2000 tester. It can perform the tests and isolate the problem pretty quickly. It will test the negative and positive sides at the same time.

If the main circuits are good...you can do a similar test on the "control" circuit (purple wire). If there is a voltage drop through that wire you will get similar issues...the contacts will weld together. That circuit goes all the way back through the key, the neutral safety switch or clutch override switch if equipped and through a couple of connections along the way.

JIM

cardo0

Ok looking at the '75 wire diagram i can see only 3 wires and the '75 has its ammeter wired between the batt and the alt (small red wire). The purple wire goes to your ign sw and picks up the solenoid. So when u start it u will see current direction from batt to starter - good bunch of amps. And when the alt comes on line the current flow should change direction and the ammeter needle should move to the other side of the 0 postion as the alt starts to recharge the batt. If your ammeter is responding like this then your smaller red wire is in the right place and since the starter can turn (at least when new) your large red wire is properly connected.
If your starter gear not only kicks out but continuously turns then only the ignition switch wire can do this and something is faulty in your ign sw. Once that small purple wire is de-energized by the ign sw the solenoid has to drop out - unless the contactor inside the solenoid is welded together as said but i have never see that before. When the contactor ring gets arched up is when u usally get the click, click, click noise and no start. I learned to flip the contactor ring back when i first got my drivers license - anyways your problem is new to me.

My money is on the ign sw and maybe that feedback situation that was mentioned.

Hope this helps,
cardo

427Hotrod

If you ever seen someone hit a starter with a hammer to get it to disengage...you have seen a low voltage conditon welding the contacts.

The Nippondenso style mini starters are less prone to this..but regular GM stye can have it happen pretty easily.

JIM

7T1vette

I'm hoping that you have also changed the starter solenoid. You don't mention doing so in your post, but that is the most likely source of your problem. The starter solenoid is what signals the starter to actuate; it acts as a relay to send the primary power signal to the starter.

If you have changed the solenoid, and you don't have a 4 awg. ground wire running from the frame to the starter ground lug, there could be some wierd power signal back-feeding to the solenoid, I suppose.

You could also have some kind of problem with the ignition switch where the 'start' signal continues after you let the key return to the 'run' position. You could check this by detecting that 'start' voltage signal at the solenoid terminal with the switch in 'run'.

But I seriously doubt that the starter unit has been the source of the problem, at all. All the starter does is turn the flywheel when it is told to do so by something else. And, apparently, the starter has been working (too well) all along.

Note: If you are not comfortable working with the electrical system around the starter area, find someone who has the skills to do so. Also, the "techs" at vendor sites have skills for selling parts. Their skills at diagnosing problems [usually] suck. Find another source for helping you to diagnose problems with your car.

'75

Starter spinning only when the key is on? Sounds like a wiring problem. There should be no change in the power to the starter by turning the key to ON. Are you using a small terminal from the starter to bypass your resistance wire to the coil? Those mini starters don't usually have that option.

cardo0

Ok re-reading your post i see u have by passed the ammeter with that extra 10 guage wire from alt to starter. So the ammeter check i mentioned won't work and your ammeter doesn't work at all. But that red wire to alt is how the batt gets recharged.
So if u want to measure current now u will need a clamp on ammeter that measures "DC" and clamp onto the big red batt wire. U could clamp on the batt neg but that shouldn't change polarity from start to charge.

Good luck,
cardo0

DC3

I think Jim is onto something with his diagnosis. Check your battery. Check the negative battery cable (mine looked good but on closer examination was very stiff from internal corrosion). Check the positive battery cable. Check the ground straps from the engine block to the frame. If you haven't beefed up those grounds, I would do that also. You can buy short battery cables with lugs on each end to use as new engine ground straps.

DC

MotorHead

I had the same problem a month ago, it actually started a small fire, luckily it was in my garage and just put a wet towel on it. Yesterday it happened again and it wouldn't turn off with the ignition key so I had to disconnect the ground wire.

Where would put the diode, mine only has three wires and I suppose putting the diode on the small wire is the only option, but what Jim says makes sense to, the contacts get stuck together and what can you do about that, pretty sure my battery is fully charged but haven't checked it yet

L-82kid

I had some free time to look into this problem. I pulled the starter out and tested it with a battery booster pack and switch. the starter worked normal and seemed fine. So I re-installed the starter and put key in on position and heard the loud spinning sound again!!! But it sounded weird, different then the last 2 times the starters failed in the past, also it seemed to be coming from the drivers side.

Then I discovered that it wasn't even the starter making the noise this time...., it was the windshield washer pump under washer tank that was stuck on. It was cranking so loud and shaking the plastic tank causing a loud vibration too. I checked my wiper switch and my wipers dont work anymore in the low/high setting. But they work if I hold down the washer/wipe button down. I pulled the wiper fuse out of fuse box and it killed the circuit and crazy loud sound stopped. I'm hoping its just a bad wiper switch inside the car, I might have a spare switch from my old car laying around that I can try.

I'm glad its not the starter again, still don't know why first two failed. But they failed like JIM described with internal parts welding together. I found that I had my ignition box power wire going to the 12v battery cable power lug on starter so I moved it directly to the battery. The past two starters might of had a voltage drop that caused issue with them because I had an 8 year old optima red top when they went bad, but I just got a new battery a month ago.

cardo0

Thx for the feed back. Now we know how to trouble shoot the windshield water pump. Once we have good new grounds we can use a hammer on the wiper motor and a diode on the wiper switch while watching a current meter for changes.

Hope don't get caught in the rain,
cardo0