MotorHead

World makes the only affordable block that you can drop a 4 inch crank in with no grinding on the block

pauldana

O yes please... expand very interested,


I am pretty sure I want the Callies rotating assembly, but i am not sure about the block... I love my world heads... please elaborate on any knowledge you have on the world block, or world VS dart, I would very much appreciate it Wayne....

427Hotrod

When I see a head that has an exhaust port that much better percentage wise as compared to the intake...I think it has a weak intake port. I had some ported Merlin oval port BBC heads years ago. The exhaust flowed 84% of the intake..the intake did 324 cfm which was OK for what the head was...but the exhaust could have handled a lot more port. I ran a single pattern cam and it was great. Power hung on forever with the good exhaust port. But truthfully, the head wasn't that efficient.

For a 6500 rpm combo that isn't going to rev past peak HP a lot..the shorter exhaust will be OK if the ex ports are that great and the rest of the exhaust matches up well. If you're going to rev and pull hard past peak HP...added exhaust duration doesn't hurt in most cases. It can hurt low end and mid range TQ...but if your foot is on the floor and you go through that RPM range in a heartbeat...you're better to have it hang on up top.

Reverse pattern stuff used to be real popular for turbos especially with wide LSA's.

JIM

gkull

Paul, I have the 434 Motown. I can tell you all about the three Dart levels from SHP to the raised cam tall deck small blocks.

They all suck in various ways. But the biggest problem with all of them is iron and based on the Gen 1 SBC.

When you start talking $9000 -$12,000+ motors. You can get LSX aluminum long block dry sumps or long block 540 ci.

Or money better spent is on a super charged motor like Lars just put together

427Hotrod

NOW we're talkin'!!


JIM

iokepakai

Looks to be a nice build! Verify that retro Howards Cam is a billet core.When I was shopping for my Hyd roller I emailed them and their answer was that the cam I wanted was a cast core.Here's the email from Howards:
That cam is ground on a SADI cast core & requires no special distributor gear.

THANX
John Steely
HOWARDS CAMS
Phone 920-233-5228
Fax 920-233-0938
Ended up buying a Crane Cam Hyd Roller billet core cast dist gear.Nice piece,engine running great! When my current motor dies,I'd like to go with that CNC shortblock.Post up your engine build when you decide what direction your going...Good luck

sweeet76

Paul, can't help on the build but this I know. You mentioned in another thread, your wife and son were going to be out of the country for vacation. Could this not have happened at a better time?

pauldana

lol... yes and no.... yes, gives me some time... but they will be back in 3 weeks now... so not quit enough time!! and, I'm missing out on all the races I was signed up for!!! the one I was looking forward to was Laguna Seca....

but the bright side.... still looks like 350,,,, and when done.... im a hunting C6 ZO6's!

pauldana

here is a quoit 1 got so far,...more to come..

Paul

Here is what I came up with for a quote. If we need to change anything let me know.

Parts list:
Crank - Compstar by Callies - SAO113CS
Rods - Compstart by Callies - CSA6000DS2A2AH
Pistons/Rings - Mahle Motorsports - SBC000125I20
Main Bearings - Clevite77 - MS909H
Rod Bearings - Clevite77 - CB663HN

Unbalanced Rotating Assembly - $2300
Balancing cost - $150 plus $50 per slug if heavy metal is required
Cost of Dart SHP Block 31161211 - $1489.95 (bare - no machine work0

Complete shortblock = $4600
-cam bearings, freeze plugs, and new rear main seal are included in the shortblock.

Description of machine work:
These engines all start with quality "New" Dart blocks. The Dart blocks start by going to our Peterson Align hone where every block main bore is machined within our spec. From there we go to our Rottler F68A 4th axis CNC machine, where we start by truing the bell housing surface face. We then blue-print parallel square deck, bore to blue-print, and blue-print stroker clearance (when required). Once the blocks are completed at the Rottler CNC machine they go to our Sunnen CK-10 cylinder hone, where the block is finish honed with torque plates to our specification and checked with our profilometer to ensure maximum ring seal. In addition we hone the lifter bores to the correct spec. We require our customers to purchase lifters from us or send us theirs for proper lifter bore clearance. All of our rotating assemblies are balanced on our Hines Dominator balancing machine. Each component is balanced within +/-1 gram and the crankshaft is dynamic balanced to within ½ gram. Each engine assembly is blue-printed.
--
Thank You

gkull

The other plus signs are:

No head bolt go into the water jacket. So you don't have to seal any head bolts

The cylinders are thicker than the Dart little M or SHP.

The block has bigger water jackets around all the cylinders unlike the phony 400 chevy

Priority oiling system

-12 an fitting for Accusump

big main caps

It has a special 7 quart pan

pauldana

Which would you buy George?

gkull

Paul, the problem with 4 or 4.125 stroker small blocks is that the Cam lobe to the big end of the rod is a problem.

I'm talking big rods and bolts made to take on power. The cure for clearance is the smaller base circle cam lobes and often grinding off the base of the rod and the threaded end of the big 12 point ARP 7/16th's rod bolts. Like my motor with Manley 6 inch H beam rods and a custom billet .940 base circle sleeved cam.

To solve the clearance problem Dart made the raised cam taller deck blocks. Very good Idea But then you really get into to the trick non stock belt and chain cam drives, rods like 6.125, and custom pistons. Like my Wiseco's That are nearly $900 for a set of 10. They sell you 10 because you are going to need spares.

My first 427 broke the 350 mains light 42# crank. It had a valve to piston contact problems and I had to also repair the AFR heads when it tore off a couple of intakes. It has had a sad life.


But the real problem with these SBC 427-454 ci is the block and prep is $3000. the HP rotating kits are $3000 and you still have to and the cam, heads, and valve rain.

Just the little refresh on my smoking 434 is about $1500 in parts and I'm doing the work. bearings are $300 head gaskets a couple hundred, rings were near $300 and I have to file fit them, hone job all the other gaskets, and new billet crane timing set.

I have to work at the race shop extra hours just to keep me going

gkull

Oh ya, My choice is the Motown over the Dart little M. I don't even have the splayed cap option. The block can take on more than most cranks and valve train

pauldana

would it be the Motown II 350 or 400? and the Dart is the SHP.

so which? and why? FWIW, the World weighs 25 lbs less then the Dart

gkull

Are you building a 400 or a 427? The SHP is a 400 ci and not designed for going longer than 3.750 stroke. I spent about 8 hours clearancing an SHP to install a 3.875 and ready to assemble to make a 415 ci.

Your above figures of $4600 are where is the timing set........ and it is obvious that they don't know anything about forged internally balanced cranks. You never add heavy metal slugs to a quality forged crank Is it some kind of BS externally balance cheap crap crank?


So you don't buy the cheap block for a 4 inch stroker.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dr...FYiDQgodEykAzQ

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wr...Fa9fQgodOT0ASA

63mako

It all depends on your budget and goals. You can build a $20,000 Small block 454 with tall deck and raised cam. You can do the $4600 421 short block with the internally balanced, callies forged bottom end with a Dart SHP Block that is a substantial upgrade over a factory block and will handle what you want to do with it and reuse most of your components, or somewhere in between. You have to remember, there is always someone faster or with deeper pockets and the bigger the build the more money it cost and life expectancy drops. Do what you have to do for your situation.

uxojerry

ultrastreet.net has a good price on 427 or 434 shortblocks. I have one of their 427 crate engines and am happy with it. All of the machining on these blocks is basically free if you price all of the components to assemble one yourself.

pauldana

Ok. that is scary... that bid was from CNC who is being recommended on this thread..So now i totally question there ability and truthfulness....

427 is what i am shooting for using my 64cc heads

So.... you would choose the World block?



i agree..... and i see no reason i would ever need or want anything more than 800hp


Thank you, I WILL check them out.

pauldana

World $2611
Instructions
Brand:World Products
Manufacturer's Part Number:084130
Part Type:Engines, Bare Blocks
Product Line:World Products Motown Race Engine Blocks
Summit Racing Part Number:WRL-084130

Main Journal Type:400 mains
Engine Block Style:Stock/OEM standard deck
Deck Height (in):9.025 in.
Cylinder Bore as Shipped:4.115 in.
Maximum Cylinder Bore Diameter:4.200 in.
Engine Block Material:Cast iron
Engine Block Weight (lbs):195 lbs.
Main Bolt Style:4-bolt
Main Caps Included:Yes
Main Cap Material:Steel
Main Cap Fasteners Included:Yes
Main Bearings Included:No
Rear Main Seal Style:2-piece
Finished Cylinder Bores:No
Raised Cam Location:No
Cam Bearings Included:No
Freeze Plugs Included:No
Quantity:Sold individually.
In-Store Pickup:Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.
ToolStroker Combinations
World's Motown blocks are without a doubt the most feature-laden, engine builder friendly, cast iron blocks on the market. And because of their superior temperature control and rock-solid stability, experts claim they're worth up to 20 hp more than other blocks on the market! At first glance, one of the more noticeable differences between the World Motown and OEM Chevy blocks are the 'bulges' at each cylinder. That's because the Motowns have thicker cylinder walls, and the water jackets have been expanded to provide required cooling.

Important features are as follows:

* Made from high-density cast iron
* 9.025 in. deck height with .600 in. minimum thickness
* Dry sump valley scavenge lines drilled
* Clearanced for 4.000 in. stroker crankshafts (H-beam steel rods)
* Integral mounts for spin-oil filter
* Dry sump systems can feed from front or rear of block
* Available with 4-bolt nodular or splayed billet caps
* Can be bored to 4.200 inch maximum
* Water jackets expanded for better cooling
* Standard Chevy cam location and cam bearings
* OEM starter, fuel pump, and engine mounts (dual)
* Blind tapped head bolt holes for extra integrity
* 100 percent compatible with OEM parts
* Indexed lifter bores (can use standard-height lifters)
* Main caps are located by dowels (not OEM outside register)
* Weight: Approximately 190 lbs.





Dart: $2732
Dart
Manufacturer's Part Number:31132211
Part Type:Engines, Bare Blocks
Product Lineart Little M Chevy Small Blocks
Summit Racing Part NumberRT-31132211

Main Journal Type:400 mains
Engine Block Style:Stock/OEM standard deck
Deck Height (in):9.025 in.
Cylinder Bore as Shipped:4.125 in.
Maximum Cylinder Bore Diameter:4.185 in.
Engine Block Material:Cast iron
Main Bolt Style:4-bolt
Main Caps Included:Yes
Main Cap Material:Steel
Main Cap Fasteners Included:Yes
Main Bearings Included:No
Rear Main Seal Style:2-piece
Finished Cylinder Bores:No
Raised Cam Location:No
Cam Bearings Included:Yes
Freeze Plugs Included:Yes
Quantity:Sold individually.
Notes:Block bores are .10 undersized to allow for piston set up.
In-Store Pickup:Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.
ToolStroker Combinations
Designed for serious racing, Dart's Little M cast iron Chevy small blocks offer more than just standard small block features. They feature extra-thick cylinder walls and decks, 4-bolt mains with splayed bolts, enlarged bosses for offset or oversize lifters, and scalloped water jacket holes for improved cooling.

gkull

63mako Talks about a SHP 421 ci. That is a 4.155 bore (.030 over) with a 3.875 like I used in making a 415 ci.

You can add 8 hours of shop labor to the cost for clearancing.

All of these blocks are better than stock.