V4kerker

I've been doing HPDE for the first time this year in a C6. I don't think I've seen 1 C3 yet. For that matter I haven't seen many 70-80's cars at HPDE's.
I'm kicking the ideal around about maybe making/buying a C3 track car for HPDE if it's cheap enough.

Thanks

76Vett

OK - I just have to ask - What's HPDE?

MrJlr

What he said!

MotorHead

Highway Patrol Defense Excuse for doing something silly to your car

One example would be " Your mufflers are too loud " and you tell the officer you have an HPDE

Vette5.5

HPDE is high performance driver education, otherwise known as running your car on an open track day(road course, not drag). Have a group here in the Detroit, MI area that rents out track's, and usually about $150-$200 for a track day. I've run my C6 at a couple of these, but really not that good. One guy does bring a 69' 427 sometimes, and does quite well.

69427

I run my '69 every chance I get. I'm always the only C3 on the track.

vetteguy22

I'm building an SR111 tube chassis for my 1970 for that exact reason. It has a gen 1 small block 427 putting out 603 hp with a t56 magnum 6 speed trani and C4 suspension with coil overs. I've got the 14" wilwood front and 13" rear brakes mounted. Trying to finish the brake lines so that I can move the body from its original chassis soon. Then comes the body work. L88 flairs and hood scoop. Then off to the track. I hope you do it. I love seeing C3's on the track.
Rob

gbvette62

There's a guy in Connecticut, that has an 81 he bought new, that runs HPDE's with regularly. The car has about 12,000 miles on it, and he has been slowly modifying it over the years.

We run into him at Lime Rock occasionally, since we use the HPDE days sometimes, as a test day for one of the Corvette vintage racers I crew on.

As an FYI, I've always been told that HPDE stood for High Performance Driving Experience.

V4kerker

Glad to hear about your track car build I like seeing the older cars at the track. Here's 1 of 3 track cars this husband and wife run. 70 camaro,68 stang and 63 vette.

vetteguy22 your gonna have to put up some video of that C3 on the track for me. Sounds like that C3 going to be a beast.

If I get one I need a turnkey car pretty much. I don't have a garage for long term build.

Lt1er

High performance driving Experience.

It is the entry level jumping throught the money hoops of moving up to full on class racing in different bodies like scca or NASA.

From what I have seen it takes allot of time and money to bring any version of Vette up to speed C-1 - C-6 Of course the older the more work to get equal track times.

On this forum there is a flaming A$$ Hole Redvettercr who at one time very actively raced some kind of small block convertible in vintage racing. He knows everything

Then there are few on here with caged road racing c-3's IMO you are better off just buying something from a retiring club racer. I've seen trailer queen c-3 - c-5 Z06s for sub $15k with trailer and spares for a turn key car.

cottoneg

I have a 1969 that I have run at NJMS (Lightning), Bridgehampton, Pocono and Lime Rock. You can do HPDE in a C3 and have a great time. Don’t know about the “cheap” part, if you want to be competitive and safe. I have made many mods to the car to get it to do what I want it to do and feel safe. My advice would be to buy a car already set-up as you can probably get a great price as everyone else wants stock. Then modify based on what YOU want.

Tim H

In a C3 its called driving over 45MPH on a autumn leaf covered road and hope we don't slide into a tree!
But in a newer vette the owners think they need to drive like there is 5 mins left at the "Country Buffet" blue plate special senior citizen discount awards program.

pauldana

i race HPDE at willow springs in my C3, it is highly modified. there is no way in gods green world that you can keep up with a stock C4-5-6 in a stock C3. i am running the following, and the stock new C6 ZO6's still give me hell. And yes... i am the only C3 out there

1979 L-82

working on the list... here is what i got together so far:

Engine: 383 SBC gen 1 (original block)

Custom Cold Air Intake with ram air design by D&C designs
with moroso intake and K&N filter
Barry Grant Mighty Annular Demon 750 Carbarator
Edelbrock RPM intake manafold
Dynomax tuned ceramic headers
Custom 2 ¾” duel exhaust with X-pipe by D&C designs
Borla mufflers
Fluid damper harmonic balancer
Forged bottom end skat crank
10.5:1 hyper pistons
chromoly rings
Edelbrock signature series RPM roller cam .56 lift, 237, 242@50
Comp-Cams hydraulic roller lifters
Comp-Cams 1.52 magnum roller rockers
Comp-cams Beehive springs
Comp-Cams push rods
World Products Sportsman II heads
Heads and intake manifold were sent to Valley heads in So-Cal for race porting, polishing, and port-matching flow 310+
HEI ignition with MSD spark system
March under drive aluminum pulleys
Canton Racing oil pan

Dewitts 3” HD radiator
high flow aluminum wp
2 Spall fans
Spal PWM

Richmond Ring and Pinion
Eaton Carrier With Carbon Fiber clutches

TKO 600 Transmission
Centerforce duel friction clutch
21 lb light weight steel billet flywheel
all drive and half shafts balanced

Custom made true 2 piece 18X10 18X8 Centerline Wheels
Rack and pinion steering
Hawk racing pads
Drilled and slotted rotors
Stainless steel sleeved calipers (soon to be a big brake kit by Wilwood)
Wilwood Master cylinder
Hydroboost assist braking
SS flex lines
VB&P spreader bar
360lb rear composite rear spring
550lb front springs cut ½ coil
lowered 3"
1 1/4” front sway bar
¾” rear sway bar
Poly everything except engine and transmission mounts
Bilstin Sport shocks

460hp and 440tq at rear wheels 3300lbs 50.4/49.6 f/r




And now they tell me they are going to move me up in class start of next year... to Modified or highly modified...i have a feeling i am going to get my *** handed to me on a platter in the highly modified class.... a C6ZO6 highly modified up to my C3?!?!?!?!? have a feeling i am going to see a lot of tail light next year.

vette427-sbc

If you want to be competitive and not break the bank, a C3 is not a great choice. If you are looking to have fun with an older vette on the track then a C3 will do that. But it still wont be cheap!

pauldana

yup.... thats pretty much it.... it only takes 1 thing to go fast......... $

David_at_Triumph

In washington, there are a few C3's that show up at the HPDE events, my 75 being one of them.

HPDE's are not intended to be competitive. They generally do turn out that way near the end of the day though!!!

Stock C3, I would be leary..., maybe in the novice group. A well prepared C3 is another matter, and is magic on a road course. You really feel like your driving a car, it's flat out exhilarating, unlike our late model brethren. They just don't have the same excitement level even though they are going much faster. Even with the stock L-48 engine (1975, so sad), my car hangs admirably with even all out track cars. I get crushed on the straights of course, but the car is more than equal in the corners.

Final advice on C3's and HPDE's... make sure you have towing insurance or another way home AND an onboard fire extinguisher. Two years of HPDE's, time trials, and auto-x's, I have been flatbedded home three times. Exploded alternator, water in the battery box (shorted ECU), and blown engine (sic). I have also been black flagged at least this many times. Fire (blown accusump line - scary and with an instructor in my car), Oil (blew out the TH400 dipstick due to the g-force in the turns), Smoke (vaporized plug wires), Noise (broken header flange). Reliability... not exactly a C3 trait.

Is it worth it? Unequivocally Yes! There is no other car that drives like a C3 corvette and the road course is where they were intended. Where else can you feel like Zora Duntov, Tony Delorenzo, Dick Thompson and that whole gang... priceless I say. Zora Duntov quote: "All corvettes are performance cars, it is just a matter of degree."

SuperBuickGuy

all I have to say is "sign me up".... I'm so close to having my car to where it needs to be to do these.... where, in Washington, do you race?

MotorHead

HPDE events in my opinion, everyone should take 5 or 6. And yes no competition. The cars are getting so fast now that any mistake could be disaster. At least at these event's they teach you what to do in different circumstances.

For instance a simple tail end stepping out around a corner can be 2 different things. A pro will say too himslelf , I f'up and slide into to gravel or dirt, not much damage done and he knows how to handle the corner the next time around.

A rookie will oversteer ( over compensate ) and start fishtailing back and forth, which besides probably ending up with more damage it is an easy way to get on roof in roll

MotorHead

You can get an honest 460RWHP out of SpormamII heads ? Don't take this wrong, I like them and more should use them, maybe I should send my 227's to your porter but I have been told they are near maxed out already and a $1000 port job might get me 5-7 cfm,

SporsmanII heads 250cfm out of the box and have always been known if ported correctly to produce 500 crank HP, yours is making 460 at the Rear Wheels, if the guy got 310cfm out of Sportsman II casting someones blowing smoke up your azz. My AFR 227's only flow a few more CFM's with the Vic Jr intake port matched at AFR.

So you have a 250cfm out of the box iron heads that make the same power to rear wheels as a solid roller 427ci with heads that flow 320cfm, sorry gotta call you on this one, I always keep my dyno charts and info where I can get to them in case someone call me on one.

Be waiting to see a dyno jet printout, even the torque is too low compared to the HP numbers, If you are making that HP at the rear wheels then congrats, you made just shy of stock C6Z06 427 numbers. Usially if you are making that kind of power, #1 it is at 6500-7000RPM and your torque will not be the same, it will be lower. I made max torque at 4750 RPM and max power at 7000RPMs.If I spent $15 grand on a motor than I could have made near or same the power with my old Sportsman II heads for 5 grand I really made a mistake, but something isn't right here and would like to find out.

pauldana

I understand you feelings... but it is... gkull sends his heads to the same place... and if you dont believe me... ask him they flow amazing and i get no power drop all the way through 6500 rpm... only thing that stops it is the rpm limiter. i had the 440tq and 390 hp at the wheels when i was going flat at about 4KRPM... after 63mako and littlemouse and gkull got me through the valve train, (2 flat lifteres not opening all the way, lousy springs, 1.5 cheap RR, cheap pushrods) she shot right on up to 6500...

my son danny has a 427 Guldstrand, and I absolutely walk on that car, from any speed to any speed... my C5... thats a joke and well... were working on Chris's C4... it will be fast some day, finished the suspension last week for him...

in first at any speed on any surface if i hit the gas the wheels light up all the way through 1st.... and 50/50 most of the way through 2nd...BFG KDW 275 40 ZR18'S

And yea, your right, I take on these guys all the time, and it very close each time.. if there running great, they will take me... if not... i take them... its always very close..

And BTW, I do very much respect your opinion, you give good and accurate advice on every thread I have read.
And its cool... i understand your doubt.