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Old 04-20-2012, 11:23 PM   #1
Camss57
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Default Summit 1104 VS Voodoo 60102

Okay cam gurus, let's hear your thoughts. I have Summit cast iron heads and 1094 gakets on my car now. I also have the Corvette Central dual exhaust with shorty headers on my 80 L48 4-speed.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:39 PM   #2
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VOODOO if the choice is between those 2. Big difference. There is a happy medium.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:35 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 63mako View Post
VOODOO if the choice is between those 2. Big difference. There is a happy medium.
Care to expand on that just a little? What would be the happy medium? The Voodoo is way better though? Why?
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:38 AM   #4
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Voodoo is current technology. Summit cam is reboxed Melling or Elgin performance grind from the 70's era.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camss57 View Post
Care to expand on that just a little? What would be the happy medium? The Voodoo is way better though? Why?
The summit cam has 282 advertised intake duration. The Voodoo cam has 262 advertised intake duration. This is a difference of 20 degrees of duration or around 10 degrees of difference in the intake valve closing point. (this can vary with other factors like LSA and ground in advance). Dynamic compression is controlled by 2 main things. Static compression and intake valve closing point. I am sure the Voodoo cam is close on intake closing point to where you need to be, closer than the summit
As you can see comparing the advertised duration , duration @ .050 and lift the Voodoo cam has a much faster ramp. It snaps the valve open faster and closed faster. The equates to better performance, vacumn and street manners if the duration @ .050 is the same but also reduces valvetrain life expectacy. It also requires a stronger spring to control the valvetrain. The ramp rate and stronger spring loads the lifter/lobe contact point much more. At 6000 RPM the valve opens and closes 50 times a second so the speed at which this happens is milliseconds.
The summit cam is similar to an old school factory grind and the voodoo cam is near roller cam profiles. To give a real solid recommendation you really need to post your actual accurate compression ratio, rear gear ratio (3.07 is stock), trans ratios, and intended use. Best bet is to figure what intake valve closing point gets you optimal DCR and then figure what operating range you need your power with your gearing, intended use and driving style. Some want maximum torque, some want great mileage, some want best ET's. If your rear end is stock you want a smaller duration cam so the car can pull early to overcome the inadequate gearing. I have seen a lot of guys build a 400+ HP engine that can't get out of its own way because the gearing is holding it back with a high operating range cam. There is really a lot involved. Either cam will work. The performance between the two can be night and day. I will give you some recommendations if you post your info. I am getting to not like doing this because there are a few forum members on here that always have to argue so if you want take it to pm.
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:59 AM   #6
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I would get the voodoo because it comes with a real cool window sticker!
Also the voodoo cam has a tighter lobe separation (112) than the milder 114 with the Summit cam and will sound better.
I never go over 110 lobe separation, but for a really god sound go with 108.

Last edited by Tim H; 04-21-2012 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:08 AM   #7
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I got the Lunati 60102 FT camshaft in my '70 Camaro (355 sbc with 10:1 CR aluminum heads and air-gap intake), the car pulls real hard after 2000 RPM, its so fun to drive yet still has a very nice and smooth idle right at 800 RPM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 63mako View Post
The summit cam has 282 advertised intake duration. The Voodoo cam has 262 advertised intake duration. This is a difference of 20 degrees of duration or around 10 degrees of difference in the intake valve closing point. (this can vary with other factors like LSA and ground in advance). Dynamic compression is controlled by 2 main things. Static compression and intake valve closing point. I am sure the Voodoo cam is close on intake closing point to where you need to be, closer than the summit
As you can see comparing the advertised duration , duration @ .050 and lift the Voodoo cam has a much faster ramp. It snaps the valve open faster and closed faster. The equates to better performance, vacumn and street manners if the duration @ .050 is the same but also reduces valvetrain life expectacy. It also requires a stronger spring to control the valvetrain. The ramp rate and stronger spring loads the lifter/lobe contact point much more. At 6000 RPM the valve opens and closes 50 times a second so the speed at which this happens is milliseconds.
The summit cam is similar to an old school factory grind and the voodoo cam is near roller cam profiles. To give a real solid recommendation you really need to post your actual accurate compression ratio, rear gear ratio (3.07 is stock), trans ratios, and intended use. Best bet is to figure what intake valve closing point gets you optimal DCR and then figure what operating range you need your power with your gearing, intended use and driving style. Some want maximum torque, some want great mileage, some want best ET's. If your rear end is stock you want a smaller duration cam so the car can pull early to overcome the inadequate gearing. I have seen a lot of guys build a 400+ HP engine that can't get out of its own way because the gearing is holding it back with a high operating range cam. There is really a lot involved. Either cam will work. The performance between the two can be night and day. I will give you some recommendations if you post your info. I am getting to not like doing this because there are a few forum members on here that always have to argue so if you want take it to pm.
Darn good info! My car has the stock 3.07 gear. The tranny has a build date from 1974, so I'm not sure what the gear ratios are. My heads are good to to .520 lift. The car has an Edelbrock 650 carb and an EPS intake.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim H View Post
I would get the voodoo because it comes with a real cool window sticker!
Also the voodoo cam has a tighter lobe separation (112) than the milder 114 with the Summit cam and will sound better.
I never go over 110 lobe separation, but for a really god sound go with 108.
Never understood the obsession with 'sound'?
I can't even count how many cams I've replaced over the years that POs have installed because they 'sounded cool' but the car ran like crap- Usually WAY over-cammed for the application.
To each his own- I was into the sound thing about 30 years ago too but got tired of all the noise but no substance.

IMO, buying a cam based on sound is like buying a stereo based on how it looks- Neither have any rear bearing on how that product will perform.
Give me a cam that will make great power in the range I need to operate and if it sounds like a Chevy Straight 6, all the better!
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezobens View Post
Never understood the obsession with 'sound'?
I can't even count how many cams I've replaced over the years that POs have installed because they 'sounded cool' but the car ran like crap- Usually WAY over-cammed for the application. Thats because they didn't know how to pick a cam
To each his own- I was into the sound thing about 30 years ago too but got tired of all the noise but no substance.Well with age comes a Ford tempo

IMO, buying a cam based on sound is like buying a stereo based on how it looks- I would really think buying a cam based on sound would be like buying a stereo based on sound also wouldn't you?
Neither have any rear bearing on how that product will perform. I don't know, if I look at a CD player and it looks like a cassette player that might affect performance.
Give me a cam that will make great power in the range I need to operate and if it sounds like a Chevy Straight 6, all the better! Some people have no pride, I bet you wear sweat pants to Walmart.
...
I build an engine around the cam, not around the walker and hearing aide!
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:49 AM   #11
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The Summit cam is a very old grind with slow lobes where the Voodoo is much newer and has fast lobes. I bought a Summit 1103 back in the early 90's! It's been around for a while.

The Voodoo will make more power & torque, but the Summit cam will be less sensitive to oil ZDDP levels and be less likely to go flat.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tim H View Post
...
I build an engine around the cam, not around the walker and hearing aide!
Dude,
If you're building the engine around the cam, I'll keep my walker and hearing aid but you better get an education..
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
The Voodoo will make more power & torque, but the Summit cam will be less sensitive to oil ZDDP levels and be less likely to go flat.
spot on.
The 60102 is a good performing piece with stockish manners though.
Very good torque!

Quote:
Never understood the obsession with 'sound'?
I do..and I love it.
Not everyone would enjoy it on the street though.
Lot of maintenance and parts aint cheap
Has to be built/geared just right or it WILL be a pig
Fun pulling away from bikes in 3rd



Last edited by cuisinartvette; 04-21-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:43 AM   #14
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Looks like a Voodoo is in my future!
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #15
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Dude,
If you're building the engine around the cam, I'll keep my walker and hearing aid but you better get an education..
Thats fine, I'll do it my way and you do it your wrong, its pretty simple.
The cam determines your heads, compression, stall and gearing.
I guess you buy a set of 200CC heads and then try to fit them into your build???
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:13 AM   #16
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I have designed a build around the cam. I did Elle88's 427 build and he wanted vintage type GM parts that worked with his L88 intake and hood the first piece I got delivered was the ZL1 solid, flat tappet cam speced by him, second was a factory 1970 vintage intake. Had to order custom pistons and further modify them to get the right compression and clearance to work with the cam and open chamber GM aluminum heads, I could have gotten him close to an extra 100 HP, lowered the operating range of the engine and improved streetability if I could have selected the cam and intake. That said we were over 500 hp and tq with a very flat torque curve from 3500 to 6500+ rpm and he is very happy with the results His car has a 4.11 and 4 speed and he does vintage racing road courses so the high RPM powerband and torque curve works well for his intended use but compromises had to be made.
An engine needs to be designed as a unit, taking gearing, intended use, car weight, transmission, expected fuel economy, expected horsepower, torque curve, intake and exhaust requirements, head flow and lift were flow flattens out and many other factors into account.

Last edited by 63mako; 04-21-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tim H View Post
Thats fine, I'll do it my way and you do it your wrong, its pretty simple.
The cam determines your heads, compression, stall and gearing.
I guess you buy a set of 200CC heads and then try to fit them into your build???
Pure genius being displayed here. I first try to figure out chassis requirements, intended useage of the car and then plan motor size, how much $$$ for bottom.end, then heads/induction, how much $$ for valvetrain (meaning roller or flat tappet.) It's a lot easier to change cams over pistons in a motor, some dyno testing I have done as many as 4 cam swaps seeing who's grinds actually work as well as their advertising. Now after having access to a Cam Doctor analyzer for a few hearsay, I have a little better handle on the subject.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:34 AM   #18
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Basing cam selection on how it sounds without taking into account the factors listed above is about the stupidest approach I have ever heard of. Just sayin.

To the OP the best thing you could do to improve your existing setup is a Richmond 5 speed with 1 to 1 fifth gear and 3.27 first. This allows you to keep your rear end and use the extra power your wanting. You could sell your 4 speed to help offset the cost. This would totally transform your car.

Last edited by 63mako; 04-21-2012 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Solid LT1 View Post
Pure genius being displayed here.
Thank you very much for the positive commit.
I pick a cam, flattop pistons, heads, air gap style intake, 750 DP Holley, Felpro and Clevite parts, gear drive timing components, headers.
Turbo 350 from WWW.PTCRACE.COM, Hurst quarter stick, 3500 stall and 4:11 gears. Plus all the normal go fast goodies.
Sticky street tires in back with 50/50 shocks and slip traction bars, front skinnies with 90/10 shocks and no sway bar.
Oh hell its in the 7s again and driving on the street to.
Yea I know what Im doing several times over.
As soon as I sell this current vette, im building again, I can't wait!
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Last edited by Tim H; 04-21-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Tim H View Post
I would get the voodoo because it comes with a real cool window sticker!
Also the voodoo cam has a tighter lobe separation (112) than the milder 114 with the Summit cam and will sound better.
I never go over 110 lobe separation, but for a really god sound go with 108.
Just curious here on a good old Saturday morning. What's a "god sound" or is this just a typo?
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:54 AM
 
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