69 Chevy

I'm sure my sidepipes would drown out any clutch associated rattle. Again thanks for your insight.

With less than 400 hp, I don't need the ultimate in clamping force or all the other attributes clutch manufacturers tout in their blurbs. I've just looked over Centerforce's site and found some diaphragm info, but even their photo/diagram only goes to 6ooo rpm...not good enough.



Money's tight and I don't want to buy something that's not going to do what I need it to do, namely one thing and one thing only, not stick my clutch pedal to the floor at 7 grand. Full stop, end of story.

69 Chevy

OK, just got off the phone with Larry @ Centerforce. After listening to my spiel he recommended their #LM271675 SFI tested to 9400 rpms PP and disc combo. Pricey at >$600 but he said it will do the job for me. He also recommended their #700100 30# steel flywheel also with SFI cert.

Unless someone here has had a not so good experience with these Centerforce parts I think my problems are solved. Only problem is I won't have enough $$$ left for that Comp Cams solid lifter stick I've had my eye on...at least for the time being.

A great big THANK YOU to everyone who has listened and helped me through this.

gkull

I like your flares! Nice car. I mentioned Ram before here is a link.

http://ramclutches.com/Products/street%20strip.htm

www.summitracing.com has some kind of sale on these in their flyer

gkull

LM stands for light metal. Waste of money unless every ounce counts. Instead of the LM. I bought the ATI 6.250 lightweight damper. It's the total rotating weight. Your crankshaft weight, fly wheel, damper are also in the mix.


Did you ask the rep. if a 22# 168 tooth and the weight of the 11 inch clutch stores as much energy as the coresponding 153 tooth 10.5 and 30# flywheel? They must know.

69 Chevy

No I did not. I gave my engine size, shift point, 3100# car weight, 2.20:1 first gear ratio and 3.70 final drive. I asked if 10.4" PP would suffice for my horsepower and he said yes. Larry made the recommendations based solely on that info.

Gkull, if you have something comparable that can save me $$$, I'm all ears!

I am still using the big diameter OEM damper that was race legal years ago.

gkull

this is on the assumption that you have a 10 spline input tranny shaft.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-98760/

fly wheel

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-1511/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAY-10-330/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-700183/

69 Chevy

WOW, that's about half price. I see that the Ram PP is SFI, but are you sure it will take 7K rpm's? Do you have a reason for your Ram preference other than price?

I'm not sure I like that.

gkull

I did not see chatter in here:

Powergrip Performance Clutch sets
MUSCLE CAR PERFORMANCE TO 550 HORSEPOWER

As power levels move up to and beyond 500 horsepower. RAM POWERGRIP meets the challenge with a combination of organic and metallic disc friction surfaces that effectively increase the clutch capacity to the 550 horsepower level. The 8-spring hub is equipped with RAM POLYCOIL damper springs encapsulated in polyurethane. This spring can handle three times the shock load of just the coil spring, and is standard in all RAM competition discs. The RAM Competition pressure plate in this kit provides 30% more clamp pressure than stock, and meets SFI specifications. At this high level of performance RAM POWERGRIP provides surprisingly good driving characteristics with smooth, comfortable driver control. Sets include pressure plate, disc, release bearing, and alignment tool unless otherwise noted.

69 Chevy

Yes it is 1 1/8" 10 spline Muncie M21 trans.

I went to the RamStore, selected at random PacePerformance.

http://paceperformance.com/i-5152400...ment-tool.html

Somebody must have thought they chattered.

gkull

ya, if you save enough money you could put a 3.875 stroker rotating kit in that block and have 396 ci shifting at 7000 rpm

I had a street rod 20 years ago with a 4.060 X 3.25 for @337 ci and i really thought i had something because it could turn 8000 rpm and had dual 660 cfm on a tunnel rams with brodix 210 cc heads and 2.055/1.60 valves and a roller cam.

I'd call ram

69 Chevy

Not today anymore. I'm all clutched out. I never thought I would be spending so much time researching one lousy drive train part.

Thanks again for all your help.

DRIVESHAFT

I'm running a Ram Powergrip clutch in my car.
It has never chattered even a little bit.

ED69ray

Lighten up Francis............

Dude - do a little research and learn some etiquette.

Check out hay's website - funny how they list the 85-103 as a "Performance Clutch GM" for a 10 spline application like a '69 vette and z-28.

http://www.haysclutches.com/ProductD...ame=All+Brands

Its a Performance 10.5 in clutch thats 1 1/8 x 10 spline. Pretty simple really - Who's the dummy now?

Sorry for trying to help.

Good luck, you are gonna need it.

69 Chevy

Etiquette?

I said your recommendation was still in the running. I thanked you for it. What more do you expect from me, Ed?

I have submitted my question to Hays via email.

I can only afford one clutch kit from the many suggested. So lots of folks are going to be disappointed that I didn't pick their suggestion. Do I have all their slings and arrows to look forward to, too?

In the meantime I'll see what Miss Manners has to say about Corvette forums on her website. I know she frowns on licking up spilt beer.

I'm outta here for now.

69 Chevy

I sent Hays my question and received an automated reply with their tech support ticket number last Saturday morning. 3 working days later and still no answer. I wonder how many others were served so far? Oops, I better not burden them with another question or I'll go to the end of the line again.

gkull

You might never hear from them. Very common not to. Did you know the Kiesler transmissions uses Sachs performance clutches like my tko 600? I could not find any info on it and I had ideas of over 850 hp on my next engine combo so I jumped on the DFX clutch.

Well anyway my Sachs sat new in the box for over a year. So one day at the shop I got to talking to a friend and he wanted to build a stroker 421 ci dart block. Its a real kick Butt 69 Camero. Its an amaziing light pedal, no noise setup. been in his car for over two years now

IMO anyone of the major manufactures have some good stuff.

Bud2

McLeods. RST Twin Discs. Lars likes them.

Bud.

69 Chevy

I'll have to wait until the McLeod folks wake up on the left coast to see if their #64003-00-04 is the answer to my prayers.

None of the info I could find surfing the net indicates total package weight and if, in fact, it will live at 7 grand + rpm.

You know how things go surfing sometimes. I found that McLeod listing some time ago, where it indicated my choice of aluminum or billet steel flywheel. But I went off looking elsewhere and couldn't find my way back again. After that all I could find was the aluminum flywheel packages.

According to this blurb about the '69 302 http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/...es/rpo_ma6.htm I should be looking in the neighborhood of 54 pound clutch/flywheel total weight. If this McLeod comes in close, I'm sold.

While biding my time on that McLeod phone call I found this tidbit. That's encouraging, if correct.

69 Chevy

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL...

Keep in mind that I'm shooting for 3 things...a 54# flywheel/clutch combo weight to provide dead stop takeaway momentum for my itsy-bitsy sized mouse motor, a lighter pedal pressure than my present 11" B&B clutch, and the ability for a diaphragm PP to not stick the pedal on the floor when shifting at 7000+ rpms. Is that too much to ask?

Then, if there are more than one product that fills all those requirements, I would choose the one with the smaller overall diameter. I do have a budget but I've learned long, long ago "The bitter taste of poor quality remains much longer than the sweet taste of a low price.”

McLeod's tech never returned my voicemail after almost 4 hours so I called again and actually got their only tech on duty, Bill. But let me summarize my efforts during that 4 hour wait.

Nowhere on the interweb could I find McLeod product weights. So I called Jeg's. I was told the RST dual disc/flywheel 64003-00-04 weighed 44.5#. A call to Summit Racing yielded 30#...that's quite a difference! McLeod says 49#. I inquired as to actual product weight or shipping weights and all 3 said shipping weight, so deduct about 2# for the cardboard box. Which made me happy since seeing this set of pics http://www.cutawaycreations.com/cuta...ges/image8.jpg meant I would have had to deduct more for the wooden shipping crate. Whew! 47# is about as close as I can get to the OEM MA6's 54#.

McLeod makes #6913-04 which is also an RST dual disc but differs in that it mounts on an OEM 153 tooth flywheel and is not an actual apples to apples comparison with the RST clutch in the flywheel combo. The benefit going this way would be that I could buy a 30# aftermarket billet steel flywheel to go with this 24.5# (less cardboard weight) clutch to get closer to my target weight. The drawback is that buying them separately costs quite a bit more. And realistically the weight difference isn't that much.

The McLeod tech said the RST/flywheel setup was overkill for my <400 horsepower. But agreed that I was getting way more for my $$$ by going that way because there were concessions made in the style of the dual disc package that mounts on a OEM flywheel compared to that of the clutch/flywheel combo...the latter which he said was a hugely popular seller.

I got McLeod part numbers for pilot bearing #8-1094-1, flywheel bolts #1540, and Oilite throwout release bearing #16010. That's everything I need for this drive train makeover. Nothing more than to write the BIG CHECK.

Thanks again for every comment and recommendation.

I learned a lot along the way. Unfortunately, a detailed installation report will not be immediately forthcoming since I don't have a heated garage and the temp is hovering right around freezing. But yesterday Punxsutawney Phil did call for spring to be right around the corner. So I'll only have to wait ~6 weeks for things to defrost.

EDIT: Billy did say that 'diaphragm pedal sticking to the floor-itis' was a long ago problem that was corrected by bent diaphragm fingers. Even at 7 grand. But gosh, finding that out was like pulling teeth.

69 Chevy

Update.

Hays finally responded after 2 weeks with a message to call them. For some unknown reason they couldn't answer my question by typing out an email reply. Screw them.

I ordered the McLeod street twin clutch/steel billet flywheel kit from Jegs. This is NOT the RST or RXT that mates with the OEM flywheel. Believe it or not, the price was reduced by ~$150 since last month...and this is no special promotion as far as I know. Lucky me! The price decreased at all 3 of the etailers I looked at.

It is at the machine shop getting balanced so it won't be long now.