350 to 383 Stroker
12-07-2010, 11:39 AM
#41
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Member Since: Nov 2010
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have been reading David Vizzards book, throw it in the garbage.
Somebody already posted a vendor www.flatlanderracing.com and look under rotating kits in the left hand pane.
Somebody already posted a vendor www.flatlanderracing.com and look under rotating kits in the left hand pane.
Why do you say that? And I must have missed the site, because this looks pretty good. I guess the idea of buying individual parts is out. I'm going to take a minute with my blueprinting resources to find the right assembly.
12-07-2010, 11:47 AM
#42
Race Director
Wow, you were right. Flat pistons it is then, but the question is which style? I have seen about 4 different styles for flat alone, any recommendations as to which one is best for my application and why? I won't be stingy with the pistons, if it's worth the extra money I'll dip into the ol' the college fund (just a pinky). My current piston budget is $350-$400.
If I had a dual carb setup I would go with that for the simple reason it looks
The Compstar line is made in China but the quality control is monitored by Callies, therefore you get very good parts like the crank and rods cheaper than what you would pay for a similar quality crank / rod setup
from another reputable parts manufacturer.
I would have used one in a blink of eye if they had one in stock at the time I was putting my 427ci together but I had to move up to the DragonSlayer line which costs quite a bit more
12-07-2010, 11:56 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
There's a reason they're uncommon. Most people I know would opt for the additional hp over the bling factor. I guess it all depends on what's more important to ya.
12-07-2010, 11:57 AM
#44
Drifting
With regard to the 6.0" vs 5.7" rods, here is why I avoid 6.0":
"Longer rods move the wristpin closer to the ring package. In tight situations, the wristpin overlaps the oil ring, requiring a support rail. This reduced compression height also creates less piston stability at higher engine speeds because of a shorter piston skirt length."
Now I ask why everyone is so obsessed with Callies? Surely other brands offer great quality for less, right? And I can't seem to find Callies rotating kits on major performance sites. Suggestions for that?
"Longer rods move the wristpin closer to the ring package. In tight situations, the wristpin overlaps the oil ring, requiring a support rail. This reduced compression height also creates less piston stability at higher engine speeds because of a shorter piston skirt length."
Now I ask why everyone is so obsessed with Callies? Surely other brands offer great quality for less, right? And I can't seem to find Callies rotating kits on major performance sites. Suggestions for that?
With the mahle pistons there is no ring spacer that I have seen and we have even run the SRP in engines we built years ago and its never been an issue that we have seen.
We have run run 6.250 rods with a 1.000 compression height with zero problems and even after a season of circle track racing there doesn't seem to be a problem.
I think there is more of an issue having the pin down in the skirt area myself.
"Longer rods move the wristpin closer to the ring package. In tight situations, the wristpin overlaps the oil ring, requiring a support rail. This reduced compression height also creates less piston stability at higher engine speeds because of a shorter piston skirt length."
If there was ever a problem with 1.000 compression height pistons and ring spacers I don't think the piston manufactures would be selling there product if they were having the issues that you are making up.
12-07-2010, 12:05 PM
#45
Drifting
Glad to see you changed your mind, flat tops are the way to go
If I had a dual carb setup I would go with that for the simple reason it looks
The Compstar line is made in China but the quality control is monitored by Callies, therefore you get very good parts like the crank and rods cheaper than what you would pay for a similar quality crank / rod setup
from another reputable parts manufacturer.
I would have used one in a blink of eye if they had one in stock at the time I was putting my 427ci together but I had to move up to the DragonSlayer line which costs quite a bit more
If I had a dual carb setup I would go with that for the simple reason it looks
The Compstar line is made in China but the quality control is monitored by Callies, therefore you get very good parts like the crank and rods cheaper than what you would pay for a similar quality crank / rod setup
from another reputable parts manufacturer.
I would have used one in a blink of eye if they had one in stock at the time I was putting my 427ci together but I had to move up to the DragonSlayer line which costs quite a bit more
Its hard to beat the quality of the of callies products compaird to the rest.
I am more of a quality guy thats why we have been using the Callies products rather to buy a crank and send it back because issues with sizing, straightness ETC.
12-07-2010, 12:30 PM
#46
Race Director
To the OP, I would suggest you buy SA books "How to Build the Smallblock Chevy" I have built a few motors but always have that book handy so I don't miss / forget something. In my opinion the book is good enough for an back yard mechanic to build his first engine
12-07-2010, 02:59 PM
#50
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Member Since: Nov 2010
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to all your help here at CF, I have finally chosen my rotating assembly.
It will be a SCAT 40605BI. In juxtoposition with the AFR 195cc intake 65cc combustion chamber heads, I should be at 10.8 compression exactly. Even if the heads turn out to be 67.5cc as someone pointed out earlier, my compression would still be at 10.5.
My cam of choice would is still the Comp Cams hydraulic roller, with 236/242° of duration @ 0.050 in. lift, and 0.520/0.540 in. lift, most likely K12-433-8. Any objections? I saw this combo with a Holley 750 Double-Pumper, so I'm not sure if I should use a slightly more aggressive cam considering the dual quads. Otherwise I can start figuring out what to do about the $1500 I have already gone over
It will be a SCAT 40605BI. In juxtoposition with the AFR 195cc intake 65cc combustion chamber heads, I should be at 10.8 compression exactly. Even if the heads turn out to be 67.5cc as someone pointed out earlier, my compression would still be at 10.5.
My cam of choice would is still the Comp Cams hydraulic roller, with 236/242° of duration @ 0.050 in. lift, and 0.520/0.540 in. lift, most likely K12-433-8. Any objections? I saw this combo with a Holley 750 Double-Pumper, so I'm not sure if I should use a slightly more aggressive cam considering the dual quads. Otherwise I can start figuring out what to do about the $1500 I have already gone over
12-07-2010, 03:32 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
What pistons do they sell with those kits, I'm going to guess "Probe" since they are probably the cheapest they carry. Make sure you are getting the right roller cam for your block, retrofit roller for early blocks, roller for late model once piece rear seal blocks.
12-07-2010, 03:54 PM
#52
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Member Since: Nov 2010
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What pistons do they sell with those kits, I'm going to guess "Probe" since they are probably the cheapest they carry. Make sure you are getting the right roller cam for your block, retrofit roller for early blocks, roller for late model once piece rear seal blocks.
As for the roller cam, this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K12-433-8/ is what I'll be running unless I find reasonabe objections.
12-07-2010, 04:44 PM
#55
Team Owner
You might want to find out the dual quad intake exit port size and the port size of the 195 cc heads.
The dual quad low rise might only be for smaller port heads.
The dual quad low rise might only be for smaller port heads.
12-07-2010, 09:38 PM
#57
Team Owner
I would still check the fitment. Some of the older tunnel rams were for smaller port heads. I ran a dual quad small block and I can tell you right now that your cam is wrong. Tunnel rams and blowers don't like over lap. You need to think about two things. More like 114 LSA Not 110 like your intended cam. Number two. Comp cams grinds their cams 4 degrees advanced compared to some other companies.
So the intake valve events happen sooner causing more reversion and give them the "I have a cam in my car sound" Sound and whether it runs the best are two different things. The simple fix is to install the cam with a multi key timing set and just install the cam retarded.
Comp cams will sell you the same 236/242 as 114 and ground straight up or 4 degrees retarded. My present 383 has a big lobe solid roller 112 lsa and ground 6 degrees retarded compared to the equivolent XE grind It gives it a power band 3500 rpm or more wide.
My other thing is: I don't build 383's anymore. for about the same price you can buy the 3.875 stroker crank rotating kit and get 396 ci. It will blow the doors off a 383 with everything else being the same. A tunnel ram needs all the ci it can get for pulling fuel out of those jets
So the intake valve events happen sooner causing more reversion and give them the "I have a cam in my car sound" Sound and whether it runs the best are two different things. The simple fix is to install the cam with a multi key timing set and just install the cam retarded.
Comp cams will sell you the same 236/242 as 114 and ground straight up or 4 degrees retarded. My present 383 has a big lobe solid roller 112 lsa and ground 6 degrees retarded compared to the equivolent XE grind It gives it a power band 3500 rpm or more wide.
My other thing is: I don't build 383's anymore. for about the same price you can buy the 3.875 stroker crank rotating kit and get 396 ci. It will blow the doors off a 383 with everything else being the same. A tunnel ram needs all the ci it can get for pulling fuel out of those jets
12-08-2010, 10:23 AM
#58
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Member Since: Nov 2010
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I see what you mean. Selecting the cam is going to be much harder than I thought. I guess for now I'll stick with everything else and open a new thread when I'm ready. I have plenty of time to tinker and evaluate until then. Thanks to you all for getting me this far
Now I'm off to spend nearly a year's worth of savings
Now I'm off to spend nearly a year's worth of savings
12-12-2010, 02:43 AM
#59
Drifting
I would still check the fitment. Some of the older tunnel rams were for smaller port heads. I ran a dual quad small block and I can tell you right now that your cam is wrong. Tunnel rams and blowers don't like over lap. You need to think about two things. More like 114 LSA Not 110 like your intended cam. Number two. Comp cams grinds their cams 4 degrees advanced compared to some other companies.
So the intake valve events happen sooner causing more reversion and give them the "I have a cam in my car sound" Sound and whether it runs the best are two different things. The simple fix is to install the cam with a multi key timing set and just install the cam retarded.
Comp cams will sell you the same 236/242 as 114 and ground straight up or 4 degrees retarded. My present 383 has a big lobe solid roller 112 lsa and ground 6 degrees retarded compared to the equivolent XE grind It gives it a power band 3500 rpm or more wide.
My other thing is: I don't build 383's anymore. for about the same price you can buy the 3.875 stroker crank rotating kit and get 396 ci. It will blow the doors off a 383 with everything else being the same. A tunnel ram needs all the ci it can get for pulling fuel out of those jets
So the intake valve events happen sooner causing more reversion and give them the "I have a cam in my car sound" Sound and whether it runs the best are two different things. The simple fix is to install the cam with a multi key timing set and just install the cam retarded.
Comp cams will sell you the same 236/242 as 114 and ground straight up or 4 degrees retarded. My present 383 has a big lobe solid roller 112 lsa and ground 6 degrees retarded compared to the equivolent XE grind It gives it a power band 3500 rpm or more wide.
My other thing is: I don't build 383's anymore. for about the same price you can buy the 3.875 stroker crank rotating kit and get 396 ci. It will blow the doors off a 383 with everything else being the same. A tunnel ram needs all the ci it can get for pulling fuel out of those jets
To build that ultimate 396 stroker you are talking about, what parts should I get? I want the good stuff. I have a new ZZ4 350 block, never touched. I'd like the AFR 210 heads, and use a Comp Cam, but would like to see your suggestions. Thanks!
12-12-2010, 10:55 AM
#60
Team Owner
Why wouls you not get AFR 227 is the price is the same?