Maurice

$83K you ask? That is the price of a new Dodge Viper from the carpoint website plus 10K in mods. Could we build a C3 that would be better handling, faster in the 1/4, higher top end and cheaper? I just finished reading the epic story on the Viper Board and in our off topic about which is better the Viper or the Z06. I am thinking is that the best there is? If our spending limit was 83K, is buying a Viper the best deal going right now? How about a new Z06 with 38K in mods? Is that the best possible use of 83K? How about a C4 with 70K in mods? How about a 88 Z28 with 81K in mods (haha). Lets focus on a C3! I know Merlin is doing something very similar to this but I don’t want to use his car or anybody else’s as a reference just so we don’t have to question anybody’s logic or choices and so nobody gets offended.

Where would we start? Would it be possible to do this? What year is best aerodynamically? What would be the best tires? How much HP can you put down to the ground before you just spin your wheels at 150mph? What are the limits? Is this too much for one post? What do you have to do to a car to get it to pull max lateral G’s? What is the max limit of lateral G forces a car could stand? What is the lightest we could possible get a C3? In a C3, if you had 1200HP, how often would you actually be able to be in the 900-1200HP power range without spinning your wheels? What would the look of all Viper/ Ferrari/ Z06/[insertallotherexoticshere] owners be worth as you blast by them in every possible racing scenario there is and then telling them you paid less than them for your car.

I know this is just a funny post but if you could build a C3 or any other car for that matter that would completely outperform the exotics but wasn’t one itself, would anybody go for it? I mean at some point, why don’t people just admit they drive what they drive because they can afford to, and if you don’t like it “BITE ME”. I really don’t think it is always about performance like everyone cracks it up to be. If you had 83K to build or buy or buy/upgrade “The Ultimate Driving Machine”, what would it be?

78Vette-SA

Have you seen Merlin's (Steve's) 74 Project? I'm sure he's got more than that into it but it could be scaled down. When completed, I think his will eat a great deal of anything street legal.
http://www.stevenkamis.com/Cars/MyVette/default1.asp

Maurice

His car is quite incredible to say the least.

SmokedTires

If someone has an extra 83k they don't know what to do with, I'll show you what I'd do with my C3 ;) . Oh, if only money DID grow on trees :D .

MassVette

You can beat 'em for a LOT less than that!
:yesnod: :chevy :chevy :yesnod:

mrvette

Well I have to ask, 'ultimate' for what purpose???

street driver everyday????....I will assume so...here is MY formula....it sort of reads like my car...

engine should be a SB...CI can be anything from 350 to 418 something like Noel has....anywhere from 350++++ hp is fine....aluminum heads, cam headers, large DOFI induction....style to suit your driving...torque tuned where you want it...depenging....bottom end obviously 'blueprinted'....balanced...strong
6 speed tranny..... .5 something o/drive...
4 speed auto for city streets....depending...
315 or larger tires in rear...offset tarms...or change over to C4 style suspension....275 tires in front....17" minimun rims...but too large looks cheesey IMO....
electric fans, aluminum radiator,....
rack and pinion steering...important....very important...huge differance here...
may want that lightweight front suspension from VBP....transverse spring...
I personally don't see the point, but others might....
urethane bushings everywhere....
brakes basically stainless no caliper springs, DOT5 fluid...can be left alone really...O ring pistons...
car has to be a convertible....
body custom is fine, but should tend to be conservative...not too gaudy, flashy...body lines just fine the way they are....very suggestive of a race car as it is....
interior is highly personal, and should follow desires of the owner/driver...
so hard to make recommendations there....
TT wheel is needed, obviously...
updating gauges.....

top weatherstripping and noise reduction insulation would be nice...
cut that damn wind noise down....

GENE

ZD75blue

I've been toying with the idea of an air bag suspension.... now how much body lean you want??? dunno how she would handle... but the rear suspension would be a trick to pull off :blueangel:

400+ twin turbo with a 150 shot nitrous
kicks in at 3k rpm built to handle 8 grand worth of revs
richmond 6 speed 3.70 rear
light weight interior... less seat weight... but more comfort

Oh and most improtant one of those mr. Gasket hippie foot gas pedals... mines getting one, cause ever body says your not REALLY gonna put one on it :crazy: :smash:

73Ken73

I think that I would go with the Z06 and 38K in mods. You probably be driving a twin turbo or super charged 700 hp Z06.

Alwyn678

Oh and most improtant one of those mr. Gasket hippie foot gas pedals... mines getting one, cause ever body says your not REALLY gonna put one on it :crazy: :smash: [/QUOTE]


Do it they ROCK :D

Ryan77

I would go for the Z06 with $38K in mods. Ever seen the Lingenfelter twin turbo C5? Motor Trend claimed it to be the worlds fastest street legal car,
0-60 in 3.2 seconds and a top speed of 226mph!!!!! :yesnod:

blue72

I'd go with a tubular chassis made to take C4/C5 suspension components/brakes, stroked, twin-turboed LS-5 engine, 6 speed OD manual tranny...
The above would have some hellacious power, not to mention the weight savings of the frame and aluminum engine. The body would have to be the next to get modified for lighter weight.. maybe some custom body panels using some of the great new composite technologies.
Can't say how it would do for aerodynamics, though... the C3 definitely looks cool, but was designed to LOOK aerodynamic... The C5 was designed with aerodynamics as a goal.

Carl in LA

I'm in.

Go with the C3 plus the $70K to modify...

'73 or older to avoid the smog check
modern wheels tires, single leaf suspension front and back
427 cube small block
Supercharge with clutch like Mad Max had
NOS for extra fun
FI
super efficient cooling system
'80-82 body style, glass, and aluminum heavy stuff to save weight
carbon fiber body panels
top paint job
modern sound system
fresh interior all the way through

Wow, I may not of even hit $50k yet!

boredsoIstrokedit

Personally, my answer to the "Ultimate C3" would go like this: First, take the C3 body and make a custom lightweight frame, my machinist and I have discussed this, and we should be able to do it at less than 350lbs. Put exotic alloy suspension something like a late model race car, but more comfortable for the street, and designed to turn both ways, and stick the body on it. You could lighten the C3 interior to match your tastes, while still keeping it somewhat stock. Then I would put a Twin Turbo multivalve head FI 302 in it (aluminum of course :yesnod: ) then put a T56 6 speed, and whatever else you want in it, and you have yourself a viper killer that is effecient (fuel economy), and even streetable depending on how your turbos are set up. My opinion, thought is that you can take nearly any "car" and kill a viper with it for $83,000, you just wont have anything like a "stock" car with it. It is just a matter of what it looks like on the outside. :cool:

flood

Save up more money and just go for the C5R. Not much would keep with that , especally in unrestricted form.

There are reasons that they make new vettes. Because the older platforms get to be hard to work with and make upgrades to. I think that if you really want to compete with new cars, its best to start with a new car.

corvette kid 427

The C5R concept is bitchin but roadracing cars are less practical because there is very few areas where you could exercize it's legs. The Silver State and the others are already owned by Vettes so the car would have to be a street/strip piece. The C3 would have to be a 69 and I would start with a 10-71 blown Arias Hemi on gas. If you have 83k, then you have the money to run fuel additives or race gas. The tranny would be a Lenco st1200 5 speed which is a planetary unit. Mark Williams modular 4-link 9 inch rear stuffed with 4.11's. The frame would be back-halved and fitted with a 12 point cage and QA1 adjustable shocks. Funnycar style zoomies would be king in this situation along with some slip-in inserts for sound control. BDS 16 port fuel injection with a Birdcatcher would sit on top of the BDS blower to round out the package. This would be good for at least 1200 horsepower and maybe 1500, depending on compression and pulley size. The world would definitely never be the same with this Vette on the public streets of America. One thing I must say, a roadrace Vette will never be able to beat a drag Vette on a visual and sound standpoint.

blue72

The question is, at what point does the car cease to become the car you started with. Some of the suggestions here involve custom frame, custom body, custom suspension, engine, interior... there's nothing left of the original except the basic body shape. Is it stil a C3
And what are the bounds of this discussion? Is the car meant to be streetable and comfortable?
For the ultimate in ease and comfort, I'd start off with the C5... but for the cool look of having an original car I'd go with the C3 with a bunch of mods.. adding to my list above would be all the electronic gadgetry I could throw in there... ABS, Traction control, blah blah blah
-Jason

Mr.Gearhead

OKAY...don't kill me... but a Factor Five Cobra could be had for a lot less and do soooo much more. Personally I would go with a 1999 Corvette hardtop. Supercharger or Turbo and all the trimmings and then with the left over money...throw a big party for the Forum people... yes the Viper guys could attend... JUST WOULDN'T BE ALLOW TO DRINK OUR BEER. haaaaaaaaaaaaa :cheers:

Maurice

The only constraint is the 83K. If we could replace the entire car for under 83K, let it rip!! My main point is that these guys are not getting the best performance for their dollar. I had just finished reading all the stuff that they had written about this car is blah blah blah.... My point is that for 83K or 73K or 183K, I don't think that using a 73K Viper as a starting point, they are getting all they performance that amount of money could buy.

BSeery

Just food for thought.....

Alluminum big block chevy engines can still be had for the right price.

Imagine the torque and HP of a BBC with the weight of a SBC !!

Merlin522

Maurice - This was my original goal. Of course I went a little overboard, but if you were to scale my car down a little & do some of the work yourself, it would still be very ferocious & easily be faster than the other cars listed here. Ryan77 - LF's record is going, mark my words. In fact, for $83,000 you could build the second version of Merlin I am planning. With a twin turbo 708 aluminum block, customized chrome molly frame etc, not only would it look more stock than what I have built now, it would weigh close to 1,000 less with the different frame & engine. It would also be capable of over 2,000HP. There's not a street legal car on the planet that can touch that. Merlin I started out to be the ultimate C-3, but alas it's reign will be short lived. To be exact, it's reign will last until Merlin II comes out!!