need to set my timing on my 68, I have a VERY old timing light. help please.
03-22-2010, 10:28 AM
#1
need to set my timing on my 68, I have a VERY old timing light. help please.
Hi, this timing light I have is probably from early 70's and it's a brand called kal-lite.
it has 3 wires with one boot being red, the other black and the 3rd blue.
now, I know you hook it to the battery and the 3rd goes on the #1 plug wire but someone told me before real old timing lights require you to remove the spark plug wire for #1 and hook up a direct wire that comes with the timing light.
well mine on the wire with the blue boot that clamp is clamped to a short plug wire that looks like a coil wire but longer not much longer it's about 1 ft or barely over.
is that the direct hookup he is talking about? and in the center of this short wire is a metal clamp thats around the wire where the clamp on the 3rd wire from the light is clamped to.
advice?
edit: here is one on ebay just like mine, mine has a coil wire where this one is attached to a T looking deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAL-L...Q5fAccessories
it has 3 wires with one boot being red, the other black and the 3rd blue.
now, I know you hook it to the battery and the 3rd goes on the #1 plug wire but someone told me before real old timing lights require you to remove the spark plug wire for #1 and hook up a direct wire that comes with the timing light.
well mine on the wire with the blue boot that clamp is clamped to a short plug wire that looks like a coil wire but longer not much longer it's about 1 ft or barely over.
is that the direct hookup he is talking about? and in the center of this short wire is a metal clamp thats around the wire where the clamp on the 3rd wire from the light is clamped to.
advice?
edit: here is one on ebay just like mine, mine has a coil wire where this one is attached to a T looking deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAL-L...Q5fAccessories
Last edited by pionexxxx; 03-22-2010 at 10:54 AM.
03-22-2010, 10:34 AM
#2
I'll break down and go get a new timing light but what's a digital timing light? thats all I see online.
why is anything digital needed? they have a screen and buttons and say they're digital, what do you get with this?
anyone know of a decent cheaper one provided local at advance or something thats good enough for the avg joe?
why is anything digital needed? they have a screen and buttons and say they're digital, what do you get with this?
anyone know of a decent cheaper one provided local at advance or something thats good enough for the avg joe?
03-22-2010, 10:53 AM
#3
Digital refers to the variable advance feature and tach readout.
A variable advance one will help you diagnose distributor problems, tune your advance curve, etc, get one with the variable advance.They'll have them ad Advance, Auto Zone, Sears...etc, under $100.
Here:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...5x000001&aff=Y
A variable advance one will help you diagnose distributor problems, tune your advance curve, etc, get one with the variable advance.They'll have them ad Advance, Auto Zone, Sears...etc, under $100.
Here:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...5x000001&aff=Y
Last edited by Garys 68; 03-22-2010 at 10:58 AM.
03-22-2010, 10:56 AM
#4
03-22-2010, 11:05 AM
#5
Team Owner
The "old" timing light is fine...as long as it works. The 'pigtail' you mentioned is for connecting to your #1 spark plug. Then the coil/spring gizmo is what your #1 plug wire connects to. The blue wire should be connected to that coil-conductor. Red to 12 vdc (+), black to ground (I use alternator ground bolt) and the blue for spark signal. If your light is one of the old neon bulb type units, you may have to be in a darkened garage to be able to see the flashes. The newer Xenon bulbs are much brighter and easier to see; they aren't any more accurate, though. Since it doesn't have a 'dial-back' feature [mine doesn't either], you will have to install a degree-tape on your damper...if you want to 'read' the timing at somewhere other than the indicator plate. For 'driver' vehicles not needing to be set-up for performance, setting timing per the "GM method" shown on the emissions sticker is adequate.
P.S. Your 'old' light with the proper degree tape stuck onto your damper will be more accurate than a [****-type] dial-back light. The digital lights may be as accurate, but they are a lot more money than a degree tape.
P.S. Your 'old' light with the proper degree tape stuck onto your damper will be more accurate than a [****-type] dial-back light. The digital lights may be as accurate, but they are a lot more money than a degree tape.
Last edited by 7T1vette; 03-22-2010 at 11:09 AM.
03-22-2010, 11:36 AM
#6
ok sorry I'm new to this here is a picture of it.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
this is a picture of it hooked up look right? what about the exposed metal where they connect? that ok? I have #1 at distributor diconnected and the coil wire deal they already had the clamp on inbetween the plug wire and distributor.
[IMG]
[/IMG]this is a picture of it hooked up look right? what about the exposed metal where they connect? that ok? I have #1 at distributor diconnected and the coil wire deal they already had the clamp on inbetween the plug wire and distributor.
03-22-2010, 11:47 AM
#7
You have it correctly hooked up.
03-22-2010, 11:53 AM
#8
awesome! now giving my honesty about not being brought up around working on vehicles.
the guy above mentions timing tape, I can see why thats needed because my timing tab just has hash marks.
I believe the hash marks represent 2 degrees each and each way of the 0 which is A advance or R for retard. Got that.
do I need timing tape? when I was setting up the engine intially on the stand I found TDC for #1 and marked it on the dampener.
now that line is still visible so isn't that all I need to look at with the light on? just that line and the timing tab? if so I think I'm ready to go give it a try!
one last thing on the emissions sticker it says to remove vacuum adavance or something like that is that needed? so I even have that on this accel distributor? not sure about this one
sticker sasys to set at 4 degrees BTDC so is that 4 degrees retarded?
the guy above mentions timing tape, I can see why thats needed because my timing tab just has hash marks.
I believe the hash marks represent 2 degrees each and each way of the 0 which is A advance or R for retard. Got that.
do I need timing tape? when I was setting up the engine intially on the stand I found TDC for #1 and marked it on the dampener.
now that line is still visible so isn't that all I need to look at with the light on? just that line and the timing tab? if so I think I'm ready to go give it a try!
one last thing on the emissions sticker it says to remove vacuum adavance or something like that is that needed? so I even have that on this accel distributor? not sure about this one
sticker sasys to set at 4 degrees BTDC so is that 4 degrees retarded?
03-22-2010, 01:32 PM
#9
ok guys back with my results.
my current timing looks to be like 6-8 on the A side of the timing tab so it's called what 6-8 degrees advanced.
and on the emissions tab it says it needs to be 4 degree BTC so thats 4 degrees on the other side of the 0 on the timing tab correct. So, looks like my timing is advanced too far which is why the idle is kinda high and I had tried lowering it per the idle adjustment on the carb.
am I correct on this? come retard it until the line on the damper is 4 degrees on the other side of the 0 on the timing tab?
my current timing looks to be like 6-8 on the A side of the timing tab so it's called what 6-8 degrees advanced.
and on the emissions tab it says it needs to be 4 degree BTC so thats 4 degrees on the other side of the 0 on the timing tab correct. So, looks like my timing is advanced too far which is why the idle is kinda high and I had tried lowering it per the idle adjustment on the carb.
am I correct on this? come retard it until the line on the damper is 4 degrees on the other side of the 0 on the timing tab?
03-22-2010, 02:55 PM
#10
Safety Car
If you are standing on the "driverside" and looking down, is it from 0 and up that is retarded (BTDC)
The timing must be like this:
18 BTDC WITHOUT vaccum @700RPM
32-36 BTDC WITHOUT vaccum @2800RPM
50 BTDC WITH vaccum @2800RPM
The timing must be like this:
18 BTDC WITHOUT vaccum @700RPM
32-36 BTDC WITHOUT vaccum @2800RPM
50 BTDC WITH vaccum @2800RPM
03-22-2010, 03:07 PM
#11
Team Owner
Before you check timing at idle, you need to remove the vacuum hose from the distributor vacuum can and put a plug in the hose (to seal off any vacuum leakage); you can use a machine screw, etc. as a 'plug'. Then, you measure timing and set it at 4 deg. BTDC [for the GM method]. After that, you can hook the dist. vacuum line up again. At that point, you can do any idle adjustments you want on the carb or just leave it alone if it's running OK.
If you want to set up your timing for best performance, you need to use a different method. I recommend sending an e-mail request to Lars Grimsrud {V8fastcars@msn.com} for his paper on setting up the timing curve inside the distributor. Provide your car's year, engine, tranny, & whether it has A/C [or not]. He may give you some detailed advice on that setup for your specific car.
If you want to set up your timing for best performance, you need to use a different method. I recommend sending an e-mail request to Lars Grimsrud {V8fastcars@msn.com} for his paper on setting up the timing curve inside the distributor. Provide your car's year, engine, tranny, & whether it has A/C [or not]. He may give you some detailed advice on that setup for your specific car.
03-22-2010, 03:13 PM
#12
Your timing should be on the advance "A" side of the tab. You say you have an Accel distributor but neglect to say whether it is electronic or points. If points you have to adjust the dwell angle first. You also dont mention whether the Accel distributor has a vaccum advance unit. The hose on the unit has to be removed when adjusting the timing. The timing tape is for the damper so you can see not only the TDC mark you have but also the 36 degree advance mark which should line up with the zero mark on the tab at higher engine speeds, 3000.
03-22-2010, 05:26 PM
#13
Before you check timing at idle, you need to remove the vacuum hose from the distributor vacuum can and put a plug in the hose (to seal off any vacuum leakage); you can use a machine screw, etc. as a 'plug'. Then, you measure timing and set it at 4 deg. BTDC [for the GM method]. After that, you can hook the dist. vacuum line up again. At that point, you can do any idle adjustments you want on the carb or just leave it alone if it's running OK.
If you want to set up your timing for best performance, you need to use a different method. I recommend sending an e-mail request to Lars Grimsrud {V8fastcars@msn.com} for his paper on setting up the timing curve inside the distributor. Provide your car's year, engine, tranny, & whether it has A/C [or not]. He may give you some detailed advice on that setup for your specific car.
If you want to set up your timing for best performance, you need to use a different method. I recommend sending an e-mail request to Lars Grimsrud {V8fastcars@msn.com} for his paper on setting up the timing curve inside the distributor. Provide your car's year, engine, tranny, & whether it has A/C [or not]. He may give you some detailed advice on that setup for your specific car.
my acell doesn't have this I know what you're talking about kinda a bell shaped deal but this one doesn't have it.
with that said what do I do just set it as is?
03-22-2010, 05:28 PM
#14
Your timing should be on the advance "A" side of the tab. You say you have an Accel distributor but neglect to say whether it is electronic or points. If points you have to adjust the dwell angle first. You also dont mention whether the Accel distributor has a vaccum advance unit. The hose on the unit has to be removed when adjusting the timing. The timing tape is for the damper so you can see not only the TDC mark you have but also the 36 degree advance mark which should line up with the zero mark on the tab at higher engine speeds, 3000.
and it is points.
so what do I do just set the timing at idle as normal? without undoing anything?
03-22-2010, 05:39 PM
#15
first you have to set the dwell, 30 degrees asumming it's a single point distributor. Then set the timing. Accel distributors quite often have modifed advance curves, lighter springs so total timing comes in sooner. So you could set the timing at idle but not knowing what has been done to this distributor makes it difficult to say what you should set it for. Did you just get this car? Do you know the history pertaining to the distributor? Typically you would set the timing not at idle but at a higher RPM for the total advance number which should be 36 degrees but you dont have the right timing light to do this and/or you dont have the 36 degree mark on your damper. The original number of 4 degrees is very low you many want to start with 12 degrees and listen for pinging but that is not an ideal way to do this. Can you give more information?
03-22-2010, 05:49 PM
#16
first you have to set the dwell, 30 degrees asumming it's a single point distributor. Then set the timing. Accel distributors quite often have modifed advance curves, lighter springs so total timing comes in sooner. So you could set the timing at idle but not knowing what has been done to this distributor makes it difficult to say what you should set it for. Did you just get this car? Do you know the history pertaining to the distributor? Typically you would set the timing not at idle but at a higher RPM for the total advance number which should be 36 degrees but you dont have the right timing light to do this and/or you dont have the 36 degree mark on your damper. The original number of 4 degrees is very low you many want to start with 12 degrees and listen for pinging but that is not an ideal way to do this. Can you give more information?
Ok well I have owned the car for 7 years and the previous owner had it since 83 the distributor I can tell you nobody has messed with he just put it in I'm sure.
I'm just wanting to get a base line because as of now when I shut my engine off it has some engine run on going on it takes a couple secs to cut off.
so I just need a baseline idle timing adjustment for now.
as of now when i look at the timing with the light at idle it is like 6-8 degrees on the advance side of the timing tab.
but you're saying go 12 degrees on the advance side?
When I'm on the drivers side looking down and in the engien bay the line on the dampener is passed the 0 on the advance side like 3-4 hash marks which I believe are 2 degrees each.
so the way it is now is about 6 degrees BTDC right?
03-22-2010, 09:55 PM
#17
yes the hash marks are 2 degrees each, and yours is 6 degrees BTDC (before top dead center, ie. advanced 6 degrees) at idle.
Get a dial back timing light, I bought one at Harbor Freight Tools for $29.
Then you can set "total timing" which is far more important that timing at idle.
Get a dial back timing light, I bought one at Harbor Freight Tools for $29.
Then you can set "total timing" which is far more important that timing at idle.
03-22-2010, 11:59 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
first you have to set the dwell, 30 degrees asumming it's a single point distributor. Then set the timing. Accel distributors quite often have modifed advance curves, lighter springs so total timing comes in sooner. So you could set the timing at idle but not knowing what has been done to this distributor makes it difficult to say what you should set it for. Did you just get this car? Do you know the history pertaining to the distributor? Typically you would set the timing not at idle but at a higher RPM for the total advance number which should be 36 degrees but you dont have the right timing light to do this and/or you dont have the 36 degree mark on your damper. The original number of 4 degrees is very low you many want to start with 12 degrees and listen for pinging but that is not an ideal way to do this. Can you give more information?
One way to get a 36 degree mark is to measure the circumference of the harmonic damper. Since the total circumference is 360 degrees, one tenth of that is 36 degrees. You can then mark 36 degrees on the damper and set the timing so that mark is at 0 degrees on the timing tab with the engine reved up so that it is at maximum advance. See the timing sticky at the top of the forum for a lot more information on how to do it.
03-23-2010, 10:03 AM
#19
If you know the part number of the Accel distributor you may be able to go to their website and look up the installation instructions. These instructions may give you an idea as to what kind of advance curve was originally in the distributor and thus how to set the timing.
03-23-2010, 11:55 AM
#20
Safety Car
An old poor man's way of setting timing without a timing light on points distributors is to put a volt meter on your coil + side. unground your negative side, when your points are open you get 0 volts. when they are closed you get 7-12 volts. Set your point gap at .019, set your crankshaft at the timing mark that you want.
loosen your distributor bolt and rotate your distributor just a tiny nudge at a time until your points open and the voltmeter drops to 0, that is when your plug will fire. Keep in mind that a 1 degree rotation of your distriibutor will change timing 2 degrees, so I has to be a tiny nudge at a time. tighten it all down and you are done.
loosen your distributor bolt and rotate your distributor just a tiny nudge at a time until your points open and the voltmeter drops to 0, that is when your plug will fire. Keep in mind that a 1 degree rotation of your distriibutor will change timing 2 degrees, so I has to be a tiny nudge at a time. tighten it all down and you are done.
