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Old 03-21-2010, 02:39 PM   #1
elle88
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Default m22 rockcrusher sound

please listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oBGnFzEgxk&feature=grec

is this the m22 whine?

love it. i think I'll go for an m22 or m22 gearset...
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:44 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elle88 View Post
please listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oBGnFzEgxk&feature=grec

is this the m22 whine?

love it. i think I'll go for an m22 or m22 gearset...
If it were me, I'd opt for the close-ratio of the M21. Less wear and tear than the M22 and easier to shift. My understanding is the M22 is intended for high-horsepower applications. But, the M21 was offered in the L46 (350hp) applications and some of the 427/454 applications.
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:44 PM   #3
Grumpy 427
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They had a straight cut gear set, thats why they whined like that.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:49 PM   #4
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I bought a super case M22w from
http://www.5speeds.com
I cant wait to see how it works and sounds
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elle88 View Post
please listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oBGnFzEgxk&feature=grec

is this the m22 whine?

love it. i think I'll go for an m22 or m22 gearset...
That was first gear whining. Someone told me that third gear whines like a banshee.

cc
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:31 AM   #6
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The original M22 had the same gear ratios as the M21. No more wear and tear on an M22 than any other Muncie. While the gears were not straight cut, they were cut on a straighter angle, hence the noise. The straighter angle tended to decrease the side loading on the case which helped make it more durable since case flex was a primary killer of the Muncie. If it were me, I would get a hold of forum member 5speeds (linked above in ZZ71's post) and buy one of the new Autogear Muncie's and be done with it. They have a revised and much stronger case, cast iron midplate, and new gearsets which fix all the old Muncie weaknesses. Paul at 5speeds will build you a killer transmission. I have been in his shop in FL and he does beautiful work and is a great guy. You can get the M22 gears in a wide ratio as well. Bulletproof units.


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Last edited by 69ttop502; 03-22-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:38 AM   #7
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i have a M21 now but the M22 sound is crazy beautiful! first time that i'm able to find a video with sound about.
the old italian cars make that whine in reverse gear and you had to see the people going fast in reverse just to hear that sound!
unless any forum member has a good M22 for sale, Autogear or 5speed are the way to go, right?
I could swap the gearset only...they are made here in Italy by Masiero .a while ago I inquired him for direct sale but no reply...
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:10 PM   #8
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$2,500 USD for a rebuilt M22 here.......now I don't know how that stacks up to the other prices......and then there is always freight and import duty.

http://www.cranescorvette.com/transmission.htm

Lots of guys I know and have read about put gear drives on their engines because they want the sound......that lasts for about an hour, then many wish they hadn't. Might want to consider that aspect first.......just sayin'........especially if 3rd is as noisy as was said earlier. I've got no memory of what they are really like.......but I am sure you can find out easily enough.

Last edited by 10caipirinhas; 03-22-2010 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:25 PM   #9
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Default M-22 Whine

Try this one out.



This is the same 55 Chevy that Harrison Ford drove in the movie "American Graffiti"

Last edited by CaptSteveW; 03-22-2010 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:32 PM   #10
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Paul at 5speeds uses all the Autogear stuff, as he was in on the developement in some way. You can just swap the gears for the Masiero's, but alot of the strength improvement comes from the new case and midplate so if money isn't an issue, I would buy the whole transmission. Doesn't matter where you buy it, I have just seen Paul's work and was very impressed. Be careful, however, as their are many fake new Muncie's out there. Make sure you get the Autogear stuff with the real Masiero gears.

Bill

Last edited by 69ttop502; 03-22-2010 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptSteveW View Post
Try this one out.



This is the same 55 Chevy that Harrison Ford drove in the movie "American Graffiti"

elle88

don't just stick new gears in the weak muncie case.

Last edited by Little Mouse; 03-22-2010 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:39 PM   #12
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God I love 2 Lane Blacktop...
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Mouse View Post
elle88

don't just stick new gears in the weak muncie case.
no , I already thought to go for the whole autogear trans.

now i have M21 and 4.11 , thinking to go for autogear M22W and 3.73,
to gain some top speed and have a powerful 1st anyway and better mpg
with M22W idon't like the gap between 4th and 3rd in the downshift , that at a certain speed is quite difficult. 3d to 2nd downshift is same as my m21 instead (good)

M20 2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00 - 25% 22% 31%
M21/ M22 2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00 - 25% 22% 22%
M22W 2.56 1.75 1.37 1.00 - 32% 22% 27%
M22X 2.20 1.51 1.17 1.00 - 32% 23% 15%

TKO600 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 - 34% 32% 22% 18% (5th)
TKO500 3.27 1.97 1.34 1.00 .68 - 40% 32% 25% 32% (5th)
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:38 PM   #14
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Cool sound, as stated above the gears were just slightly less angled, and the end ( bottom ) of one tooth there was a space before the top of the next tooth started unlike other trannys where they overlapped and there was no space, kinda hard to explain without a picture
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elle88 View Post
no , I already thought to go for the whole autogear trans.

now i have M21 and 4.11 , thinking to go for autogear M22W and 3.73,
to gain some top speed and have a powerful 1st anyway and better mpg
with M22W idon't like the gap between 4th and 3rd in the downshift , that at a certain speed is quite difficult. 3d to 2nd downshift is same as my m21 instead (good)

M20 2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00 - 25% 22% 31%
M21/ M22 2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00 - 25% 22% 22%
M22W 2.56 1.75 1.37 1.00 - 32% 22% 27%
M22X 2.20 1.51 1.17 1.00 - 32% 23% 15%

TKO600 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 - 34% 32% 22% 18% (5th)
TKO500 3.27 1.97 1.34 1.00 .68 - 40% 32% 25% 32% (5th)
Assuming you don't want the TK0600 trans. W trans 4.11 X 2.56 = 10.52, 3.73 X 2.56 = 9.54. your current 4.11 X 2.20 = 9.04. what are you using the car for? if your going to 3.73 for fuel milage its just not going to help, that sucker is going to use fuel regardless with 4.11 or 3.73. High duration cam you have one full point more low gear ratio of 10.52 low gear would be more help to you then the slight rpm drop of a 3.73.

Last edited by Little Mouse; 03-22-2010 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:06 PM   #16
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My own preference of Muncie gearsets would definitely be the M22-W wide ratio.




FWIW, with the 4.11 you're only looking at about 5mph difference in the 4-3 downshift point between the M21 and M22-W at 5000 RPM (3rd)...

Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; 03-22-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:08 PM   #17
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The M22 sound just got on my nerves when I had it in my vert. swapped it out with an M21 much quieter. I still have the M22 in storage along with some of the other original parts from its old racing days (intake, heads, ramhorns,rims, seats, interior pieces and 2 other hoods). I can only talk from personal experience but that whine does where on you. When I got it we just sort quickly put in some interior pieces that a friend had lying around as well as a used tach to replace the broken original. An ex-forum member SuperaFast80 used to luv to drive this vette and thought the tranny sound was wonderful - yup right up until he missed a shift and I saw the tach needle go well over 7k.

Last edited by gdh; 03-22-2010 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedH View Post
If it were me, I'd opt for the close-ratio of the M21. Less wear and tear than the M22 and easier to shift. My understanding is the M22 is intended for high-horsepower applications. But, the M21 was offered in the L46 (350hp) applications and some of the 427/454 applications.
UH! if your following Elle88 threads, he has a 600HP motor, I would go M-22 route. Autogear USA buys their M-22 gear sets from Antonio Masero of Italy and re-sells them in the USA maybe you can get a local discount on a gear set and save some $$ on import taxes

You exisitng Muncie transmission case will accept the M-22 gear set if it has a 1" (25mm) counter shaft in it (all Muncies after 1966 have the 1" countershaft but, you could be unlucky enough to have a early case in your Vette.)

Rebuilding a Muncie 4 speed is pretty easily done by a skilled transmission guy using GM factory manuals. Ebay has plenty of rebuild parts just make sure the bearings in the re-build kit are quality parts (no Chinese) and I would get some torque lock synchro sliders to install while the transmission is apart.

Last edited by Solid LT1; 03-22-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Mouse View Post
Assuming you don't want the TK0600 trans. W trans 4.11 X 2.56 = 10.52, 3.73 X 2.56 = 9.54. your current 4.11 X 2.20 = 9.04. what are you using the car for? if your going to 3.73 for fuel milage its just not going to help, that sucker is going to use fuel regardless with 4.11 or 3.73. High duration cam you have one full point more low gear ratio of 10.52 low gear would be more help to you then the slight rpm drop of a 3.73.
It will take off better with your 4.11. The 10.52 first gear would be nice with your build. I don't know if the M22W has the straighter cut gears, better check if that is the sound you want. You can buy direct from Autogear.
Gas mileage is better with the new motor isn't it.

Last edited by 63mako; 03-22-2010 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:32 PM   #20
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All thge "M-22" series gearsets have the 22.5 degree helix angle to increase the HP ability of the gearset (this is what gives you the whining sound.) The M-22W set has a bigger gear drop from 3rd to 4th gear but with a big block probably not a big deal, a small block will "lay down a little" on a 3rd to 4th shift with a wide ratio but at over 100MPH who cares.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:32 PM
 
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