10caipirinhas

Here is an interesting read from Business Week on the proliferation of ethanol in gasoline. There's lots of positive spin "and" negative articles online........but it is mainly the negative ones that concern me, as they seem to be the ones with the most merit due to their use of first hand evidence.

It kinda correlates to my line of thinking, especially now that the green lobby and their pet "wealth distribution project" which this week is called "climate change" has been exposed for the hoax and scam that it truly is. And "climate change" was the raison d'etre, along with a floundering and almost bankrupt ethanol industry, that politicians put the stuff into our gas in the first place.

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...514_058678.htm

Up here in Canada over 1,000 retail outlets have ethanol blended gasoline with between a 5-10% mixture. The rest do not. We have one major refiner with a 10% ethanol blend 94 octane premium fuel that is readily available.........and I am getting down to the short strokes on spec'ing an engine build for the C3 I will soon be looking for.......so, naturally, the matter is important to me as an engine specifically built to run on with 91 octane versus 94 octane will make significantly less power (5-7% +/-). And as the 94 octane gas is readily available, and theoretically OK to use, why not build an engine accordingly ? FWIW it is the highest octane rated pump gas you can buy here in Canada.

I am not a petrochemical engineer, so I am out of my depth here, but there are several high performance engine builders here, as well as people with cars that produce serious HP.......so I am looking for some opinions from all of you.........

1-Is ethanol gas harmful to some engine components or OK to use all around ?

2-Does ethanol gas, especially the higher octane premium blends, really offer benefits such as improved combustion, ergo, more power ? Or is it merely marketing hocus pocus ? As in the gas really is 94 octane "but" the benefits are offset by the drawbacks in ethanol.

3-At 40 cents a gallon "more" than 91 octane.......is it worth it to you ?

4-Do any of here regularily use it and what are your thoughts in general ?

Mike Ward

Extremely well thought out and expressed post, after having 10 caipirinhas. My limit has always been three.

1) Ethanol will not damage any part of an engine or fuel system with the exception of very old style rubber components. Almost everything made in the last 10-15 years has been compatible with ethanol.

2) It does not combust better than gasoline and in fact carries less energy per unit. Octane ratings have nothing to do with energy content or power anyway.

3) individual choice. Me? Meh.

4) I've been using E10 for almost 20 years, no complaints.

roger3

Scam all the way set up by politicians. If ethanol was a better or equal product it would sell itself and would not need government subsidies to make it seem viable.

Same as wind farms, hydrogen powered cars, solar power, etc.

Roger

81pilot

I take excetion with Mike saying it damages nothing but old rubber. Ethanol is a corrosive agent to softer compounded mostly aluminum components. The latter models (most) use a harder non corrosive element. However things like lawnmowers don't ...I ruined an engine (well wore it out fast) from unknowingly using ethanol in it. Will I use it? NEVER at least not until it is the only thing left and I don't see that happening. Just my 2 cents.

markids77

Aside from the facts that most ethanol is made from food grade grains, costs more to produce than gasoline, nets less energy per gallon than gas and soaks up water like a sponge, and is only mandated as an oxygenate because some idiot in the cornbelt convinced the other idiots in Congress this is a great idea... if you tune your combination on gasohol, and use it regularly enough to minimise in tank condensation, you'll never miss anything but the increased cost at the pump.

noonie

In Florida we are stuck with it by law and many reports have been in receiving way over the 10%

The only problems I have incurred are from the washing effects of the ethanol. It will clean both filling station tanks and your complete fuel system of the old varnishes, besides attracting moisture. This happens to every type of engine.
This will plug tank strainers and carb filters very quickly. Now I know what to look for, but it was somewhat purplexing at first.

Another problem area was with rubber components, carbs needed new kits that were compatable.
Also if a car is not driven for a week or so, in this hot climate, all the fuel will evaporate out of the carb, no biggey, you hust have to know that.

I have a few Stihl products, backpack blower, chain saws, weed eaters etc and the new style of gas cap uses an oring that the ethanol will swell and make the cap useless within 4 months.

There also seems to be a much higher instance of getting water contaminated gas.

Other than that, it's fine.

Golden

This is an interesting read, I wonder how long before the green liars force this on us

I feel slightly spoilt that we can still buy 98 octane pure gas

Then remember we have to pay $8 US or $8.40 Canadian a gallon

jetjockey

No help on the question. I do miss non-alcoholic fuels though. Smelled better in the exhaust, you know? Seems as if Mike hit the nail on the head. One of the places alcohol does belong is in the Caipirinha!

Big Block 69

Does ethanol increase your fuel consumption?
I have a Super Bee that I Drag Race. I use Turbo Blue or Cam 2 fuel.
I have friends who run Alcohol. They tell me that alcohol cost 1/2 as much as my fuel, but they use twice as much, so we're spending about the same. If I'm going to use alcohol in my everyday car, it's going to cost more and I'm going to use more, where is the benefit?

zwede

Not to rain on your parade, but Octane is measured differently in Euro-land and your 98 is the same as our 93.

Yes. Ethanol has lower energy content (less BTUs) than gasoline and will increase fuel consumption. E10 typically delivers 2-4% worse mileage.

E10 shouldn't be a problem on an old car. E85 is a different animal.

Mike Ward

Correct on all 3 points.

redvetracr

Ethanol is a scam for the people forced to use it but highly beneficial to the farmers who grow the crops that make it and the politicians who received donations from the farm lobby . If not for the federal subsidies it would go away....I vote SCAM.

aussiejohn

G'day,

Down Under, petrol prices vary considerably, the oil companies blame Singapore, as our prices are based on the price of crude oil out of Singapore.

Typically, petrol costs about AU$1.30 per litre, but the 10% ethanol laced petrol can cost four cents per litre LESS, so around AU$1.26. But on Tuesdays, the prices usually drop to about AU$1.20 or AU$1.15 sometimes, with the 10% ethanol petrol still $0.04 less.

A Shell petrol station near me has just introduced E85 at AU$0.99 per litre, but I haven't tried that yet. My 1983 Holden Commodore V8 runs a Quadrajet and I don't think it will like E85, but my throttle body injected '87 Holden Camira might. The Camira is like a Chevy Cavalier, I think. 1.8 litre engine, transverse, front wheel drive.

So, in summary, E10 (10% ethanol) petrol is about four cents a litre (about AU$0.16 per US gallon) CHEAPER than straight petrol, while E85 is about AU$0.25-30 per litre CHEAPER than straight. That's about one dollar cheaper per GALLON than straight petrol. Subtract about 10% to convert to US$, dunno about Kanuk pesos, tho

I hope this adds to the knowledge of the way that some of us are being screwed by the big petrochemical companies.

Regards from Down Under

aussiejohn

straub18045

i do no oil companies dont adjust price for the 10% less fuel economy you will recieve while using the 10% ethenal fuel.

Sho'nuff

Love the smell of aviation fuel in my exhaust vapors E10 stinks

76GlassY

I know they were having problems with the boating industry. People filling up their boats at regular gas stations were having concerns with the fiberglass tanks in their boats. Seems the ethanol was slowly disolving the tanks and fouling up their fuel systems. Gas that is sold at the boat marinas doesn't have the 10% ethanol, nor a lot of the other "needed" additives. The fiberglass tanked boats using the marina gas haven't been seeing this problem.

Golden

I wasn't aware you used the R+M ratting, still at least ours doesn't have any nail polish remover in it

Mike Ward

E85 is 85% ethanol, not 85% petrol. Not many cars can run on it without some serious modifications being done. Conversion kits are available here, but I can't think of one good reason to even try it.

The Canuck dollar is within a few pennies of the US dollar these days, makes a nice change from the 70 cent dollar days.

MotorHead

But it's still 8 bucks a gallon

I agree with political scam side of it. It is more costly to turn into a usable product therefore the farmers and everyone involved in this ethanol experiment are subsidized by the North Amercian powers to be and thereby would go away if left to fend for itself

MotorHead

Built a whole motor when out "dollar" was 65cents. Cost me about triple in the end by the time I paid everyone with there hand out to get the parts up here from the states. And yes it was still cheaper to get them shipped from the states at that too, that pay the ripoff artists up here