mysixtynine

Hey guys.

Quick question on your conversions. I have just installed my box but was wonder about the steering knuckle to tie rod connections. My car was originally manual steering. I believe it was an option up into the mid 70's.

So I have two holes in the steering knuckles (1969). Manual steering was supposed to use the rear most hole (furthest to the back of the car).

For those of you that have done the conversion which hole are you using? Could you also tell me how long your tie rods are from the center of the grease fitting to the center of the grease fittings on both sides? I am thinking that measurement will be different when using the different holes in the steering knuckles.

I'm curious if the guys with original power steering continued to use the hole closest to the spindle or moved it to the furthest out? This would be impossible for guys with later cars that came only with power steering?

I believe the guys at Borgeson told me to use the original manual steering hole in the knuckle?

CheezMoe

I converted mine from manual and while I cannot go out at the moment and verify which hole, I can tell you it went back together (as far as the knuckle goes) exactly like the stock manual assembly and per the Borgeson instructions!

Hope this helps. I'm sure someone else will chime in. If you need a pic PM me. I won't be able to get out there and get one until at least tomorrow evening though.

peace

mysixtynine

The instructions don't tell you what hole to use in the steering knuckles on cars that had the option of both power and manual.

Wondering if anyone with both holes has tried both and seen a difference? I'm just afraid the closer holes will be twitchy. But the cars with only one hole will only have (pwr) as an option.

Also it seems if you use the closer holes the tires will toe out and I will have to compensate for this.

tarheeljww

I already had power steering, so my unit went in EXACTLY like the old one came out.......
I did have a problem with the rag joint, and per Borgusons recommendation, I switched to a universal, { reminds me, I need to send the rag back for a credit}, but the first time I called, I talked to someone " less knowledgable", but then I talked to, I think Greg, and he was VERY good.

Hope this helps.

BTW, haven't driven my car, except around the hood, but noticed a huge diff.........worth the bucks.

mysixtynine

Does your car have the two holes in the steering knuckles or only one?

I am wondering what the difference in road feel will be when using the two different holes and which one would be the best choice.

It looks like the holes closer to the spindle will also give me a little more adjustment on my tie rods as I wont have to collapse the drivers side so much to center the box.

Mastr Fab

I'm currently doing the Borgenson conversion. My car was PS model and has only the one hole but it is definately closer to the spindle. The problem I'm having is with the steering box centered and the wheels straight the end of the pitman arm is about 1" to the left of the ball joint on the relay rod. It's like the shaft coming out of the steering box isn't indexed properly. I called Borgeson and they are "looking into it" and will " get back with me".

mysixtynine

Mine was in a similar state. They told me I have to take it up with the tie rods? (Now I only had the car 2 years and never had it aligned so who knows how bubba had it setup to begin with.)

So now my drivers side tie rod is collapsed almost all the way and the box is now just about centered.

My tie rods are setup for a manual box using the steering knuckle holes that are furthest to the back of the car.

After installing the box my steering geometry would go full to the right but would not go full to the left. My pass. side tie rod was about 14 1/2 inches long and my drivers side was 15 1/4 (center of grease fitting to center of grease fittings).

I centered the box yesterday (by adjusting the tie-rods) and now my drivers side is like 14 3/8 and the pass side is 15 1/4. Its by no means aligned yet (for toe-in) but the wheels are very straight and now I still get a full right hand turn but the left turn is still off by about 1/2 - 1 inch from full turn.

Again I am using the rear most holes in my steering knuckles. I may try moving to the factory pwr steering hole which is closest to the spindle and would give me more usable adjustment on my tie rods.

I found the box to be about 2 3/4 turns lock to lock giving you 1 and 1/3 + turns from center in either direction. The old box is about 4 turns lock to lock.

Again the directions don't seem to state what hole you should use. Maybe its expected to use the pwr holes as later cars only have the pwr holes.

When the box itself is centered the alignment spline (1 of 4 on the sector arm) for the pitman arm should face directly backwards just like on the original box. You should then get 1 and 1/3 + turns off center in either direction. This is the only way the original pitman arm could work. I asked them if I needed to use a different pitman arm.

Mastr Fab

Is the distance from the mounting plate, where it mounts to the frame ,to the centerline of the output shaft the same as stock? I sent my original box in for core credit and don't have a way to measure it. Thanks.

mysixtynine

I am sure it is. I have a Big Block and and difference here would have pushed me into my headers.

My neighbor has my old box Ill see if he can get me a pick of where the mounting flange meets the frame measured to the center of the sector arm.

mysixtynine

My neighbor measured my old box.

Looks like 1 1/8" from center of sector shaft to the side of the flange where it touches the frame.

682XLR8

For power steering, the tie rods go in the forward holes. Running the Borgeson box and that's how mine is set up(previously had manual), no problems so far

mysixtynine

If you had a manual car before then your tie rods should have been in the steering knuckle holes toward the rear of the car.

If you moved the tie rods to the pwr steering holes (furthest forward)when you installed the borgeson then you would have had a massive toe-out situation.

The instructions don't tell you to use the holes furthest forward. There is no mention of them at all.

Seems like allot of folks have done this manual to pwr conversion and have either not moved the tie-rods to the pwr location or they don't have the steering knuckles that allow for manual or pwr steering.

Just trying to get a baseline for what every ones run into and what I should use on my steering knuckles.

Seems like the pwr location is the way to go.

Mastr Fab

The Borgeson box measures about 1 5/16" and that is the way I need the box to go. Is there a difference in the distance between the original control valve threaded end to the ball joint centerline vrs. the adapter they provide? Here again I sent my old one back for core credit.

aussiejohn

G'day,

One thing you MUST do is centre the steering box with the tie rods disconnected. There is a "tight spot" when the box is in the straight ahead position and this is the point to which everything else is adjusted. Next step is to point the front wheels straight ahead and then you adjust the tie rod lengths so that they fit without altering the position of either the steering box or the front wheels.

Obviously, the steering wheel must go on the column also pointing straight ahead. If you can do this, then the car should be safe to drive a short distance to an alignment shop.

Regards from Down Under

aussiejohn

Solid LT1

I bought the original "Jeep box" conversion from Tom at Corvette Steering service. The tie-rod ends should go in the most forward holes of the steering arms as Randy previously stated in his post.

I can relate to your tie rod differential problems as I had the same thing on my Vette after the conversion and a friend of mine has just consulted with me about the same problem on his 68 Vette. When the steering box is on "the high point" dead center of lock to lock travel, it seems on some cars the tie rods end up with a 3/4-1" difference in length (drivers/passengers sides.) This probably dosen't greatly effect the ackerman geometry to a great degree but, it is slightly changed.

Being the "shade tree" genius that I am, I took a long hard look at the pitman arm with the 4 flat registers to allow it to only be installed in one position and figured that I could add some splines into those flat areas with a 32TPI hacksaw blade and triangular file (I used my old manual steering box as a guage to determine when my splining work was close enough to allow for full installation onto my new steering gear.) Adding the splines allowed me to rotate the pitman arm about 1 notch over to keep the steering box dead on the high point and get my tie rods equal length (maybe it was 2 notches over, I did it 2 years ago and my memory is fading.)

I called and talked with Tom at Corvette Steering about what I did, he told me that before he could get the steering box with the proper Corvette splines on it, he had made a steel pitman arm without the 4 locating flats (fully splined) but, people had so many problems with the concept of putting the steering gear dead center on the "high point" when setting up the system that he stopped making them.

If you don't get the steering gear onto the "high point" you will have a sloppy steering feel as the clearance between the steering gear is tighter towards center on purpose to remove the "slop" when you would most notice it (while driving straight down the road.)

If you try my method, you should carefully mark and locate the high point of the steering gear, lock the input shafts with a couple of vice grips or clamps. and then set-up your linkage/pitman arm. You may also want to try it on a spare pittman arm for practice if your not a machinist.

mysixtynine

I had a manual car before so my relay rod does not need the conversion. I can't speak to the measurement on the control valve modification. Sorry.

mysixtynine

Ok ... so from what I am gathering here the borgeson instructions really should indicate using the pwr steering holes in the steering knuckles (especially if you are converting from a manual steering car).

Later cars simply didn't have the manual option and the steering knuckles were not drilled for the manual option.

Thanks for the input guys.

Mastr Fab

It would seem that if the Borbeson box was a direct replacement i.e. dimensionally the same, then replacing the stock box shouldn't change the alignment. I'm sure there is a way to compensate for the changes, it's just frustrating.

JimT

My buddy and I just installed this box on a '57 Chevy (manual steering). We also had a rag joint problem (which we fixed) but had a terrible time trying to align the front end. We ended up having to shorten the longest tie rods on each side by one inch to allow more adjustment room. Don't be alarmed if you have to modify your steering linkage to make it work.

mysixtynine

Great... I am installing a borgeson on my fathers 55 chevy as well. I hope I don't have allot of trouble with that conversion. We had to grind the frame a little to get the nose of the box to fit onto the frame without hitting.

We got the column shortening kit for it and the new rag joint.