airtime

summit oil is supposedly a rebadged bottle of spectro's oil. from what i have read, 1200 is the minimum. now, what people should take from this thread and others like it is oil plays an important part of protecting your engine, more over, cam and lifters. full synthetic and high zinc oils are the safest for your flat tappet cams. most folks only change thier oils in muscle cars 1 to 2 times a year. so for a few more bucks per year your expensive motor will have the best chance of survival. don't worry about brand names, just know what is in the oil and make an educated decision. alot of time and hard work went into the info you and i have recieved for free.

noonie

Mobil 1 15w 50
Silicon: M1 15W-50: 9ppm
Boron: M1 15W-50: 228ppm
Sodium: M1 15W-50: 13ppm
Magnesium: M1 15W-50: 43ppm
Calcium: M1 15W-50: 2464ppm
Phosphorus: M1 15W-50: 1193ppm
Zinc: M1 15W-50: 1315ppm
Molybdenum: M1 15W-50: 90ppm

jb78L-82

Interesting Thread! Is a full synthetic better than a conventional oil? it appears from the data that it definitely is! In my case, what is the data:

1. Lab tests presented above

2. All forms of racing with high performance engines running a synthetic instead of a conventional oil.

3. Recommendation from every leading auto manufacturer running a synthetic in their high performance engines from the factory.

4. My own personal experience with a full synthetic in countless cars for 24 years. The only car that I have owned that EVER wiped a cam was a 1973 Nova SS running conventional oil all of its life with 100,000 miles in 1987. I have never had an engine issue in any car running a synthetic oil regardless of age or mileage, never. Everything else on the car sometimes fell apart but not the engine.

I have used Mobil 1 since 1985 in my 78 L-82 with zero issues with the original engine. I currently run 15W-50 high performance/racing Mobil 1 only due to the correct amount of ZDDP for a flat tappet cam engine. For the money, Mobil 1 15W-50, is a tremendous deal for a full synthetic and can be purchased for $22 at walmart for a 5 QT container. Any synthetic is better than a conventional oil as long as it has the correct amount of ZDDP (1,200 PPM). Are there better full synthetics than Mobil 1? Maybe. Are those full synthetics worth the 50-100% price premium over Mobil 1? In my opinion, no. Are all of the full synthetics better than a conventional oil? Absolutely! PS-All you Shell Rotella T Diesel oil users are playing with fire with a flat tappet cammed engine with the new EPA regulations.

cottoneg

When I started this thread, I was pretty much considering either Amsoil or Joe Gibbs. I broke the engine following the exact instructions of the engine builder: Valvoline VR1 (Racing oil) 20WX50 and Break in additive with a Wix oil filter.

63Mako, brought up a very good point about cold start up wear when using higher weight oils. I will buy an Accusump system to pre-oil the engine and reduce the cold start up wear issue. Also, even thought I have a Canton oil pan, I am hoping the Accusump will also help if the engine runs dry in high speed cornering situations sometimes found in road race conditions.

I have a lot of links to go over and read.

chevymans 77

IF you look through some oil analysis Mobil 1 and Amsoil perform the best over all. They are the two most used true synthetics out there.

Neal

72-LT1

If you read any of the posts on the NCRS site, the guy on there who considers himself an expert and will not listen to any other points says that 1200 is all thats needed and anything greater is actually harmful to your engine, in that it causes rust I think.

63mako

I have to disagree with that self proclaimed expert. This level will probably provide all the protection you need in an NCRS car with a factory slow ramp cam that never sees over 4000 RPM on the way to the show or up the trailer ramps. This is the Corvette Forum Tech and Performance section!! There are a lot of guys on here that stress their engine internals to well over twice what the stock HP NCRS car would see on a hard run. 1200 is the minimum recommended for flat tappet cams. Modern cams with faster ramps, especially the big solids with big spring pressures, 600, 700, 800 HP, 7000 + RPM potential really need more. Can you imagine the lobe to lifter pressures a 750 HP solid flat tappet 540 with big enough springs to run 7500 RPM sees compared to even a 435 HP tripower car that hasn't seen redline in 30 years? Then throw a blower or a 250 nitrous shot on it. We have guys here that do this kind of stuff. Not so at the NCRS. That is why some of the racing oils are running well over 2000 PPM zinc. Good antioxident additives availible in the extended drain interval oils (usually synthetics) will reduce internal corrosion issues. I don't consider myself an expert but have done a ton of research on this as my father in law was an Amsoil dealer before he died and I didn't believe what he was telling me about it at the time.

MotorHead

Brad Penn semi synthetic oil is all my buddy uses and he build a few hundred race, street and boat motors a year.

I use it in my 427ci small block it is lighter than 20W50 dyno oil because it is semi synthetic and it has all the ZDDP protection you need.

Project80

In reference to a semi-synthetic oil, how much of the Penn is actually synthetic?

clintwilson

rottella t and showie helmets.

63mako

And another wiped lobe thread from using oil with only 840 PPM zink. Add in the extra detergents that are in diesel oil that have been proven to break down the sacrificial layer of zink that protects the lobes.
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/...ic,5499.0.html

Little Mouse

What the hell does C1-4, CH4, CG4, CF4, CF/ SL, SJ mean ?

63mako

C is compression ignition (diesel), S is spark ignition, (gasoline). the second letter is based on the date that classification went into effect. According to the API an SM (most recent designation) replaces SL. It supposed to be for all gasoline engines from modern engines and older. CJ oil replaced CI oil for diesels. The -4 or 4 is for 4 stroke engines. -2 is for 2 cycles. These changes in oil composition and additives are made, for the most part, to meet progressively stricter emmision requirements mandated by the EPA. The same reason lead was eliminated in fuel years ago. Here is a rating chart from API. Here is a quote from that chart:
"For automotive gasoline engines, the latest engine oil service category includes the performance properties of each
earlier category. If an automotive owner’s manual calls for an API SJ or SL oil, an API SM oil will provide full protection.
For diesel engines, the latest category usually – but not always – includes the performance properties of an earlier category."
Which we all know is bulls**t.
http://www.apicj-4.org/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf

Little Mouse

You notice where it mentions shear.

gear shear will break down additives in oil quicker then anything.

MotorHead

Run a roller cam and any oil with 1400ppm or more of zinc and forgeddabodit

Kalway

I've been running Valvoline ZR-I 10w30 for a couple of years. Plenty o zinc for flat tappets, if I recall. It's conventional racing oil... Not exactly meant for every day cars...

So I can flush my engine and switch to Mobil 1, since it has uber amounts of zinc?

LT1driver

one of the guys in the ncrs who recommends shell rotello 15-40 is an retired GM engineer so I guess mako knows more than him?????? many in the ncrs drive there cars and many are trailer queens. I personally visit many forums and take away what I want and do research to decide what to do after asking many questions to formulate hopefully an educated solution to the problem at hand oil threads are always entertaining and are like noses, almost everyone has one

63mako

The retired GM engineer is right. Shell Rotella 15W40 is fine as long as it was made before the reformulation to meet the 2007 emission standards.
Look at the jug, I have 2 in the garage. One says CG-4 CH-4 / SL. The other says CI-4 / SL. These both have enough Zink. Both are old stock bought at different times quite a few years ago. If it says CJ-4 / SM like a lot of the new diesel oils say now it is reformulated. Jug looks the same additives are different. CJ-4 and SM rated oils do not have enough zink for your cam. If you want to use it be my guest. A lot of the problem with picking the right oil is that most manufacturers don't list their additive levels anywhere. You can find oil sample test results online but a lot of them are old, from 2006 2005. Oil formulations change often and an oil that was fine a couple years ago might not be now. BTW caterpiller used to spec Rotella. I used it in my flat tappet corvettes and my diesel duelly for years. I don't use it anymore. As of 2007 Shell Rotella T 15W-40 CJ-4 rated oil has 840 PPM Zink and 940 PPM Phosphorous. If you can find the older formulations it has the additives you need. If you can't find it and want to use it I will sell you 2 sealed gallons for $20 each or I will use it up in my duelly.

Little Mouse

Around 3 or four yrs ago 18 wheelers had to add cats on there exhaust system. This is why the shell diesel oil some of it has changed. Mobile delvac 1300 still has the high zinc content.

man if you could see an old 80 model truck I have lying around with a cat engine in it you would be singing the praises of delvac 1300, last time I rebulit it was at 1,500,00 miles everything is still up to snuff in it.
still has the original crank, original solid roller cam, original roller lifters,
original cam bearings, original block, original head ( has been surfaced and rebuilt ) the mechanical fuel injection has never been rebuilt, all the gears that drive, the oil pump off the front of the crank, gears that run the camshaft, air pump, fuel injection, water pump, all still original.

I run it in a an old 89 dodge raider I call the box or the red bomber
230,000 miles on delvac 1300. this J-P dodge has never got any real care taken care of it sort of the whipping boy, the engine has had one set of plugs changed. one timing belt finally broke at 210,000 the water pump failed at 220,000, this is all that has ever been done to the engine in 230,000 miles, on delvac 1300.

airtime

not sure if my 1995 gmc truck is roller or not but it has 250,000 miles on it. valvaline conventional oil only, changed every 5 to 6000 miles. uses 1 qt every 5000 miles. my brothers 1991 chevy truck had 320,000 miles on it. all this on conventional. i am sure full synthetic oil is better, but do you really need it? i'll be using the 1800 ppm summit conventional oil in the vette and 67 camaro. now, i do run full synthetic in my twin turbo vr-4. turbo's cook oil. also, just because someone is an engineer for gm doesn't make them an oil expert. my brother is a professional electrical engineer and he uses conventional valvaline in his 91 chevy truck.

disclaimer: my brother doesn't know squat about oil