Hopefully my last Spal Fan wiring question
09-26-2009, 12:39 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hopefully my last Spal Fan wiring question
I wired up my fans per the diagram and they didn't turn on at temperature. I've got the dual spal kit on my Dewitts. I have all 3 grounds (fan1, fan2, radiator ground strap for temp sensor) on the frame near the front transverse brake line. As a test I jumped a wire from the gray temp sensor wires in the Spal harness (hooked to the sensor) to ground and "presto" both fans are running. If I leave it this way both fans run all the time, undesirable but driveable... does this mean I have a bad sensor? Bad ground? Radiator ground strap is ineffective?
Anyone else have this problem?
Anyone else have this problem?
09-26-2009, 12:50 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
well from what you just said, you provided a ground reference and jumped out the sensor. So everything else is correct. Either bad sensor, or your not getting hot enough to close the bi metal in the sensor? where on the rad do you have the sensor mounted. And did you jumper the ground to the spot you have them all hooked to on the frame?
09-26-2009, 02:06 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
the sensor came already installed from Dewitts just under the upper radiator hose. I did jump the sensor to the same ground I used for both fans and the radiator ground strap and they work fine. Also, I allowed the temp gauge to read 210 before I shut it down... figuring bad sensor I then jumped the wire around the sensor in the radiator and over to the temp sensor in the head that is connected to the gauge in the dash thinking they might turn on this way. No help, but i'm not sure i can jump to the other sensor and expect a positive result. I think it's a thermostatic switch in the radiator and just a temp sensor in the head.
Other ideas or opinions welcome.
Other ideas or opinions welcome.
Last edited by Dantana; 09-26-2009 at 02:19 PM.
09-26-2009, 05:39 PM
#4
Safety Car
I did a dual fan install on my 82. However not like yours, I used dual 90 vette fans and two fan harnesses from chevy corsicas with weatherpack relays. I found these cars easy to remove the harness from.
Once you get it all out it is very simple to wire up & seems far less complicated then aftermarket wiring.
I put both relays near the firewall and got a juction block from a 89 TBI camaro then ran a wire to my starter from it to provide battery power to both relays. Then I found an ignition source for both relays & used a 89 camaro fan switch in the head to trigger the relays.
Once you get it all out it is very simple to wire up & seems far less complicated then aftermarket wiring.
I put both relays near the firewall and got a juction block from a 89 TBI camaro then ran a wire to my starter from it to provide battery power to both relays. Then I found an ignition source for both relays & used a 89 camaro fan switch in the head to trigger the relays.
09-26-2009, 09:12 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Here's what I've done since origally posting:
1) Jumped thermostatic switch to ground - both fans on (good ground)
2) Jumped thermostatic switch to radiator - both fans on (radiator grounded)
3) Had a beer to stimulare thought process
4) Verified IGN switched wire is hot - 12V
5) Remove thermostatic switch to confirm it is getting "wet" and hot - it is
6) Had beer and cigarette to further stimulate thought process
7) checked thermostatic switch for function to confirm is it closing by no continuity cold and positive continuity when hot (heated up using high tech flame provided by Bic lighter)
8) Reinstalled switch, refilled coolant and tried again, no change
I'm running out of ideas cause it's not that hard to hook these up... teflon tape insulating switch from grounding? wires between thermostatic switch and relays shorting out? Local Coors Light distributor sabotaging me so I will simply drink more heavily?
1) Jumped thermostatic switch to ground - both fans on (good ground)
2) Jumped thermostatic switch to radiator - both fans on (radiator grounded)
3) Had a beer to stimulare thought process
4) Verified IGN switched wire is hot - 12V
5) Remove thermostatic switch to confirm it is getting "wet" and hot - it is
6) Had beer and cigarette to further stimulate thought process
7) checked thermostatic switch for function to confirm is it closing by no continuity cold and positive continuity when hot (heated up using high tech flame provided by Bic lighter)
8) Reinstalled switch, refilled coolant and tried again, no change
I'm running out of ideas cause it's not that hard to hook these up... teflon tape insulating switch from grounding? wires between thermostatic switch and relays shorting out? Local Coors Light distributor sabotaging me so I will simply drink more heavily?
09-26-2009, 09:41 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Upper hose very hot...
09-26-2009, 10:22 PM
#9
Safety Car
Your high tech heating process will destroy thermal sensors.
I say pull the threaded in plug in your head and put a GM temp sensor in to ground the relays.
One question I have is this. In order for a radiator sensor to work and being the radiator is isolated with rubber cushions how could a grounding thermal sensor possible work in the radiator. Also if the sensor is below the upper radiator hose and being when you rev the engine up the coolant level will significantly drop how can you be sure the sensor is submerged?
I see you mentioned a ground strap to the radiator. I think that idea would be a hit and miss would be better to ground the sensor itself directly. Your car should have a threaded in plug in the opposite side head I would just eliminate all issues and put a GM sensor in there.
I bypassed my 90 corvette ecm's ability to run the fans using a sensor like this and it works great.
I say pull the threaded in plug in your head and put a GM temp sensor in to ground the relays.
One question I have is this. In order for a radiator sensor to work and being the radiator is isolated with rubber cushions how could a grounding thermal sensor possible work in the radiator. Also if the sensor is below the upper radiator hose and being when you rev the engine up the coolant level will significantly drop how can you be sure the sensor is submerged?
I see you mentioned a ground strap to the radiator. I think that idea would be a hit and miss would be better to ground the sensor itself directly. Your car should have a threaded in plug in the opposite side head I would just eliminate all issues and put a GM sensor in there.
I bypassed my 90 corvette ecm's ability to run the fans using a sensor like this and it works great.
Last edited by jeffp1167; 09-26-2009 at 10:35 PM.
10-06-2009, 08:37 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I am resurecting this thread because I still can't get the fans to kick on. I removed the teflon tape for the thermostatic switch and started it up. No luck. I tested the voltage at the end of the thermostatic switch and got 14V. After thinking for some time I cut the switched feed from the ignition source and jumped it straight to the BAT terminal on the back of the alternator to see if it made a difference. No help.
I'm completely stumped, but it appears that I have 14V at the thermostatic switch all the time. This does not seem right but could be a result of me moving the switched feed to the back of the alternator? I'm sure the answer is hiding in plain sight but i'm getting frustrated... beer me.
I'm completely stumped, but it appears that I have 14V at the thermostatic switch all the time. This does not seem right but could be a result of me moving the switched feed to the back of the alternator? I'm sure the answer is hiding in plain sight but i'm getting frustrated... beer me.
10-06-2009, 08:59 PM
#11
Team Owner
I am resurecting this thread because I still can't get the fans to kick on. I removed the teflon tape for the thermostatic switch and started it up. No luck. I tested the voltage at the end of the thermostatic switch and got 14V. After thinking for some time I cut the switched feed from the ignition source and jumped it straight to the BAT terminal on the back of the alternator to see if it made a difference. No help.
I'm completely stumped, but it appears that I have 14V at the thermostatic switch all the time. This does not seem right but could be a result of me moving the switched feed to the back of the alternator? I'm sure the answer is hiding in plain sight but i'm getting frustrated... beer me.
I'm completely stumped, but it appears that I have 14V at the thermostatic switch all the time. This does not seem right but could be a result of me moving the switched feed to the back of the alternator? I'm sure the answer is hiding in plain sight but i'm getting frustrated... beer me.
simple go/no go device....
10-07-2009, 12:35 AM
#12
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OK, you got a brass switch body screwed into the head?? or just placed into the radiator??? either way, when you grounded the wire to the relays the fans turned on, right?? if so, the body of the controller switch device is not grounded to the car body/engine block...one way or another so go form the body of the switch/bolt/brass to ground with a clip lead, and if it's still not on when it should be, BUT does turn on when it's grounded from the signal wire lead...you got a bad switch/sender.....
simple go/no go device....
simple go/no go device....
10-07-2009, 03:24 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Well, from what i'm reading, there's only 2 possibilities.
1. the switch is not closing.
2. the switch is closing and not grounding.
That location- the upper rad hose, after the thermo, is the water outlet for the engine, the coolant should be the hottest there, coolest at the lower rad hose.
This is a simple test, you'll need a voltmeter with Ohm (looks like upside down U) tester. unhook the feed to the sensor, start the car, put one lead (blk) on a paint free portion of the radiator, and the other on the wire hook up of the sensor. let the engine get hot, not too hot, but 210 should be ok. The Ohm meter should read high- an OL or open or anything above 100k is open, when the cars reaches hotter then operating temp, the reading should instantaneously drop to 1 Ohm or less- Closed. if it doesn't, it's bad or rated too high. get another one and install it with some thread sealer- sans the teflon tape. if it does cut on, there's a ground problem with your rad. test the resistance between the rad and the frame, it should be 1 Ohm or less. one of these is the problem, I'm betting the sensor is bad,, closing at to high a temp, so not closing in your application. C.
1. the switch is not closing.
2. the switch is closing and not grounding.
That location- the upper rad hose, after the thermo, is the water outlet for the engine, the coolant should be the hottest there, coolest at the lower rad hose.
This is a simple test, you'll need a voltmeter with Ohm (looks like upside down U) tester. unhook the feed to the sensor, start the car, put one lead (blk) on a paint free portion of the radiator, and the other on the wire hook up of the sensor. let the engine get hot, not too hot, but 210 should be ok. The Ohm meter should read high- an OL or open or anything above 100k is open, when the cars reaches hotter then operating temp, the reading should instantaneously drop to 1 Ohm or less- Closed. if it doesn't, it's bad or rated too high. get another one and install it with some thread sealer- sans the teflon tape. if it does cut on, there's a ground problem with your rad. test the resistance between the rad and the frame, it should be 1 Ohm or less. one of these is the problem, I'm betting the sensor is bad,, closing at to high a temp, so not closing in your application. C.
10-07-2009, 05:26 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
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Well, from what i'm reading, there's only 2 possibilities.
1. the switch is not closing.
2. the switch is closing and not grounding.
That location- the upper rad hose, after the thermo, is the water outlet for the engine, the coolant should be the hottest there, coolest at the lower rad hose.
This is a simple test, you'll need a voltmeter with Ohm (looks like upside down U) tester. unhook the feed to the sensor, start the car, put one lead (blk) on a paint free portion of the radiator, and the other on the wire hook up of the sensor. let the engine get hot, not too hot, but 210 should be ok. The Ohm meter should read high- an OL or open or anything above 100k is open, when the cars reaches hotter then operating temp, the reading should instantaneously drop to 1 Ohm or less- Closed. if it doesn't, it's bad or rated too high. get another one and install it with some thread sealer- sans the teflon tape. if it does cut on, there's a ground problem with your rad. test the resistance between the rad and the frame, it should be 1 Ohm or less. one of these is the problem, I'm betting the sensor is bad,, closing at to high a temp, so not closing in your application. C.
1. the switch is not closing.
2. the switch is closing and not grounding.
That location- the upper rad hose, after the thermo, is the water outlet for the engine, the coolant should be the hottest there, coolest at the lower rad hose.
This is a simple test, you'll need a voltmeter with Ohm (looks like upside down U) tester. unhook the feed to the sensor, start the car, put one lead (blk) on a paint free portion of the radiator, and the other on the wire hook up of the sensor. let the engine get hot, not too hot, but 210 should be ok. The Ohm meter should read high- an OL or open or anything above 100k is open, when the cars reaches hotter then operating temp, the reading should instantaneously drop to 1 Ohm or less- Closed. if it doesn't, it's bad or rated too high. get another one and install it with some thread sealer- sans the teflon tape. if it does cut on, there's a ground problem with your rad. test the resistance between the rad and the frame, it should be 1 Ohm or less. one of these is the problem, I'm betting the sensor is bad,, closing at to high a temp, so not closing in your application. C.
It's just the test that I was going to propose, except that I would try it in a can or a pan full of water on a gas cooker ( Don't tell your wife !
), and with a thermometer if you have one, assuming you can remove the switch without draining too much coolant.Except this, I would proceed exactly as above...
I'm just a little reluctant to let an engine running without appropriate cooling... Less risk with the wife's pan
Last edited by 73StreetRace; 10-07-2009 at 06:39 AM.
10-07-2009, 09:47 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks guys, will try these tests and also get a new switch for posterity. I think the radiator is grounded because when I jump a wire from the end of the switch to the radiator fans run all the time.
10-07-2009, 03:44 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Matt, I'm not sure how I would do that. Put aprobe from the voltmeter into the fan harness and ground the other probe? If you can advise I will be happy to give it a go.
I talked to Spal today and they are sending me out a new Thermostatic switch to try. They have also asked that I jump a wire from the body of the existing switch to ground and see if "giving it more ground" makes a difference. I had previously jumped the wire from the stud on the end of the switch to ground, effectively bypassing the switch. I am going to try both jumping the wire and the new switch qhwn it arrives tomorrow and see what happens.
I talked to Spal today and they are sending me out a new Thermostatic switch to try. They have also asked that I jump a wire from the body of the existing switch to ground and see if "giving it more ground" makes a difference. I had previously jumped the wire from the stud on the end of the switch to ground, effectively bypassing the switch. I am going to try both jumping the wire and the new switch qhwn it arrives tomorrow and see what happens.
