What Paint $$$$$$$?
08-05-2009, 06:40 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
What Paint $$$$$$$?
Hi Guys-
I have my 75 convertible ready to paint so went to the local PPG automotive paint store to buy paint and required materials. They quoted me $990 for paint, hardener, reducer, and everything for a base/clearcoat paintjob. Just the 1 gallon of red paint was $560.
It was nearly coronary time. Just for grins, I went out on the web and found the required materials offered by Paint For Cars Trinity 1945 for $172. Wide range dontcha think ????
I'm looking for advice from anybody out there who has painted their car with reasonable priced, reasonable quality paint. I also expect to probably get beaten up for being a cheapskate and "ya get what ya pay for" etc........
But c'mon, $560 a gallon ??????
Please help me out guys, suggestions ?
TIA
Larry
I have my 75 convertible ready to paint so went to the local PPG automotive paint store to buy paint and required materials. They quoted me $990 for paint, hardener, reducer, and everything for a base/clearcoat paintjob. Just the 1 gallon of red paint was $560.
It was nearly coronary time. Just for grins, I went out on the web and found the required materials offered by Paint For Cars Trinity 1945 for $172. Wide range dontcha think ????
I'm looking for advice from anybody out there who has painted their car with reasonable priced, reasonable quality paint. I also expect to probably get beaten up for being a cheapskate and "ya get what ya pay for" etc........
But c'mon, $560 a gallon ??????
Please help me out guys, suggestions ?
TIA
Larry
08-05-2009, 07:42 PM
#2
Oddly, RED is one of the most expensive colors you can buy. I think I paid close to $1000 for all that using torch Red off the '01 Vette. Me, I can't tell the difference but I trust the guy who taught me how to paint and he said the better paints lay down better, spray better, than the others. He also said some high end paint shops not to be named charge a little more than others and there isn't much difference. That gallon price is in line for quality red paint.
08-05-2009, 07:47 PM
#3
On the inexpensive side I read a great article in CarCraft last month about the paint system that Summit Racing offers. I went out and priced out everything. Including sandpaper and the sanding blocks the total was $550. I believe a gallon of acrylic urethane runs $80-100 plus another $40 per quart of clear (not for sure on the clear price). That's for the high solids paint. For a daily driver I believe this would be fine. To me this represents the rock bottom cost for painting a car.
Durablock TAI-AF44L - Dura-Block Sanding Blocks
* $59.95
Sanding Disc, Stick-On, 6 in. Diameter, P80 Grit, Aluminum Oxide, Set of 50
* $25.95
Carborundum 30153 - Carborundum Blue FineLine Masking Tape
Carborundum 63770 - Carborundum EZ Sheet Paintable Plastic Sheeting
* $24.95
Carborundum 70408 - Carborundum Premium Masking Tape
* $3.95
Carborundum 70525 - Carborundum Carbo Gold Aluminum Oxide Resin Paper Stick-On Sheet Rolls
* $15.95
Carborundum 70528 - Carborundum Carbo Gold Aluminum Oxide Resin Paper Stick-On Sheet Rolls
* $15.95
Carborundum 70569 - Carborundum Carbo Gold Aluminum Oxide Resin Paper Stick-On Sheet Rolls
* $25.95
Chicago Pneumatic CP870 - Chicago Pneumatic 6 in. Dual Action Sanders
* $59.95
Fiberglass Evercoat FE106 - Evercoat Rage Lightweight Body Filler
* $34.95
Fiberglass Evercoat FE416 - Evercoat Metal Glaze Putty
* $29.95
Summit SUM-UP101 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) Urethane Activator
* $19.95
Summit SUM-UP200 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) High-Solids Clear Coat
* $59.95
Summit SUM-UP220 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) 2K Urethane Primer Surfacer
* $39.95
Summit SUM-UP300 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) Acrylic Urethane Paints
Paint, UV Stable, Acrylic Urethane, Gloss, Black, 1 Gallon, Each
* $79.95
Durablock TAI-AF44L - Dura-Block Sanding Blocks
* $59.95
Sanding Disc, Stick-On, 6 in. Diameter, P80 Grit, Aluminum Oxide, Set of 50
* $25.95
Carborundum 30153 - Carborundum Blue FineLine Masking Tape
Carborundum 63770 - Carborundum EZ Sheet Paintable Plastic Sheeting
* $24.95
Carborundum 70408 - Carborundum Premium Masking Tape
* $3.95
Carborundum 70525 - Carborundum Carbo Gold Aluminum Oxide Resin Paper Stick-On Sheet Rolls
* $15.95
Carborundum 70528 - Carborundum Carbo Gold Aluminum Oxide Resin Paper Stick-On Sheet Rolls
* $15.95
Carborundum 70569 - Carborundum Carbo Gold Aluminum Oxide Resin Paper Stick-On Sheet Rolls
* $25.95
Chicago Pneumatic CP870 - Chicago Pneumatic 6 in. Dual Action Sanders
* $59.95
Fiberglass Evercoat FE106 - Evercoat Rage Lightweight Body Filler
* $34.95
Fiberglass Evercoat FE416 - Evercoat Metal Glaze Putty
* $29.95
Summit SUM-UP101 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) Urethane Activator
* $19.95
Summit SUM-UP200 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) High-Solids Clear Coat
* $59.95
Summit SUM-UP220 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) 2K Urethane Primer Surfacer
* $39.95
Summit SUM-UP300 - Summit Racing Equipment (TM) Acrylic Urethane Paints
Paint, UV Stable, Acrylic Urethane, Gloss, Black, 1 Gallon, Each
* $79.95
Last edited by TheMongoose; 08-05-2009 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Added the list
08-05-2009, 07:51 PM
#4
Former Vendor
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Charlotte North Carolina 704-394-5150
Posts: 766
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Larry,
I FEEL your pain and I am just trying to aid you. I do not know what your skill level is, so please excuse me if I am writing things that you already know. But by reading that you are going to buy one gallon of paint, I can come to the conclusion that I may be able to help. And POSSIBLY save you $$$$$$.
I restore Corvettes for a living and when gas prices go up, so do the cost of materials.
You have to understand that RED paint is one of the MOST expensive colors out there. Back in the day when "Porsche Guards Red" was the color for many to use, the cost was ALOT higher than that of a similar red that was not that much different to the "average person". But people just had to have "Guards Red". Not realizing that an "experienced painter" can change the color of the paint that is mixed in his/her gun to several different shades just by changing some of their techniques when applying and allowing the paint to "flash" off. And many of these shades can match other colors that are close to the color mixed but not exactly the same.
I am not going to write it because you already wrote it...if you know what I mean.
I used to be a ENTIRELY PPG shop but changed to another paint company many years ago. I went to NEXA (previously called ICI). It is sold uaually at stores that sell PPG because NEXA is being marketed BY PPG fro ICI in teh states under teh NEXA name, but it is still ICI paint. I love it. It covers quickly, so you co not need alot of color. or base coat.
I shot a 1981 Corevette ENTIRELY (full color change)with ICI paint, used a STAT-jet NR-92 HVLP gun with a 1.3 head on it and only used a QUART to do the entire car. When it was reduced, I have TWO quarts of sprayable paint. The red covered in one COAT, but I did apply another just to make sure. And I did use the "evaluation card" to verify that it was covered. Some of the paint companies reduce their basecoat to the point that they do not cover well and require many coats to achieve full hiding of the undercoat.
I would never MIX a gallon to paint your Corvette ( I have a paiint mixing machine in my shop). Because that would give you TWO gallons of paint which is way too much paint. I would mix about two quarts , so you would have one qallon of sprayable paint. This is because I now spray with a different SATA HVLP paint gun which has a fastet travel speed than the NR-92 and does go through a "little" bit more paint but it is worth it. The NR-92 was a GREAT gun but was to slow because it was one of the earlier HVLP paint guns offered.
The idea is that when you are painting basecoat/clearcoat is to apply enough paint so you achieve FULL hiding. Then the Clearcoat thickness protects it from the sun's UV influences. The thinner the better when the basecoat is applied. usually two or three coats of base is fine. It all depends on teh color and how well it "hides" due to many colors oout there now have a lot of pearl ini tehm and they usually do not like to cover well due to the properties of pearl and the other tioners in the color. Even with these colors I RARELY apply FOUR coats of base using the NEXA paint when dealing with tehse hard hiding pearl colors. Seeing how you want red, it will cover fast. You do not want a thick basecoat. So 20 coats like back in the lacquer day is a out of the question. You gain no benefit by having more base on the car past that of COMPLETE HIDING. Youa re wasting paint.
Now if you are not using a HVLP gravity feed paint gun, you will waste more paint due to the design of the gun. I get about 85%+ paint transfer when I use my HVLP gun versus a NON-HVLP gun which is about 35%+ paint transfer. Which I can tell due to the amout of overspray (dense fog in the booth while spraying) I get with a NON-HVLP gun versus darn near NO overspray with a HVLP gun.
Using a no name brand due to cost is your choice. There are some good paints out there that is not from the BIG companies. But one thing is you want to make sure you apply enough decent clear on the car to protect you basecoat. This is where I do not get cheap. I want to give my customer YEARS and YEARS of great paint and the opportunity to polish any issues that may arise in the future without having to worry about getting it to thin or "breaking through" to the basecaot color while buffing, etc.
I DO NOT USE the NEXA clearcoat. IT is WAY to expensive for me and I have found another Clear which is awesome (for me) and does not cost nearly as much and had proven itself for the past 10 years+.
Yes I am mixing systems from different manufacturers, but I KNOW it works and there is nothing wrong with changing manufacturers during different processes because NO company has the BEST of it ALL. But CAUTION must be observed and sometimes it can come back and BITE you.... you know where, if you do not test your procedure and products BEFORE applying it to your car FIRST.
Yes the costs are HIGH for you, but I feel you can reduce them by performing some TESTS and obtain GOOD paint guns that can allow your paint to get on the car instead of going into the filters.
If you need to...call me and I will aid you further if you need any help or advice. I have MANY tricks and an willing to pass them along.
"DUB"
(704)394-5150
I FEEL your pain and I am just trying to aid you. I do not know what your skill level is, so please excuse me if I am writing things that you already know. But by reading that you are going to buy one gallon of paint, I can come to the conclusion that I may be able to help. And POSSIBLY save you $$$$$$.
I restore Corvettes for a living and when gas prices go up, so do the cost of materials.
You have to understand that RED paint is one of the MOST expensive colors out there. Back in the day when "Porsche Guards Red" was the color for many to use, the cost was ALOT higher than that of a similar red that was not that much different to the "average person". But people just had to have "Guards Red". Not realizing that an "experienced painter" can change the color of the paint that is mixed in his/her gun to several different shades just by changing some of their techniques when applying and allowing the paint to "flash" off. And many of these shades can match other colors that are close to the color mixed but not exactly the same.
I am not going to write it because you already wrote it...if you know what I mean.
I used to be a ENTIRELY PPG shop but changed to another paint company many years ago. I went to NEXA (previously called ICI). It is sold uaually at stores that sell PPG because NEXA is being marketed BY PPG fro ICI in teh states under teh NEXA name, but it is still ICI paint. I love it. It covers quickly, so you co not need alot of color. or base coat.
I shot a 1981 Corevette ENTIRELY (full color change)with ICI paint, used a STAT-jet NR-92 HVLP gun with a 1.3 head on it and only used a QUART to do the entire car. When it was reduced, I have TWO quarts of sprayable paint. The red covered in one COAT, but I did apply another just to make sure. And I did use the "evaluation card" to verify that it was covered. Some of the paint companies reduce their basecoat to the point that they do not cover well and require many coats to achieve full hiding of the undercoat.
I would never MIX a gallon to paint your Corvette ( I have a paiint mixing machine in my shop). Because that would give you TWO gallons of paint which is way too much paint. I would mix about two quarts , so you would have one qallon of sprayable paint. This is because I now spray with a different SATA HVLP paint gun which has a fastet travel speed than the NR-92 and does go through a "little" bit more paint but it is worth it. The NR-92 was a GREAT gun but was to slow because it was one of the earlier HVLP paint guns offered.
The idea is that when you are painting basecoat/clearcoat is to apply enough paint so you achieve FULL hiding. Then the Clearcoat thickness protects it from the sun's UV influences. The thinner the better when the basecoat is applied. usually two or three coats of base is fine. It all depends on teh color and how well it "hides" due to many colors oout there now have a lot of pearl ini tehm and they usually do not like to cover well due to the properties of pearl and the other tioners in the color. Even with these colors I RARELY apply FOUR coats of base using the NEXA paint when dealing with tehse hard hiding pearl colors. Seeing how you want red, it will cover fast. You do not want a thick basecoat. So 20 coats like back in the lacquer day is a out of the question. You gain no benefit by having more base on the car past that of COMPLETE HIDING. Youa re wasting paint.
Now if you are not using a HVLP gravity feed paint gun, you will waste more paint due to the design of the gun. I get about 85%+ paint transfer when I use my HVLP gun versus a NON-HVLP gun which is about 35%+ paint transfer. Which I can tell due to the amout of overspray (dense fog in the booth while spraying) I get with a NON-HVLP gun versus darn near NO overspray with a HVLP gun.
Using a no name brand due to cost is your choice. There are some good paints out there that is not from the BIG companies. But one thing is you want to make sure you apply enough decent clear on the car to protect you basecoat. This is where I do not get cheap. I want to give my customer YEARS and YEARS of great paint and the opportunity to polish any issues that may arise in the future without having to worry about getting it to thin or "breaking through" to the basecaot color while buffing, etc.
I DO NOT USE the NEXA clearcoat. IT is WAY to expensive for me and I have found another Clear which is awesome (for me) and does not cost nearly as much and had proven itself for the past 10 years+.
Yes I am mixing systems from different manufacturers, but I KNOW it works and there is nothing wrong with changing manufacturers during different processes because NO company has the BEST of it ALL. But CAUTION must be observed and sometimes it can come back and BITE you.... you know where, if you do not test your procedure and products BEFORE applying it to your car FIRST.
Yes the costs are HIGH for you, but I feel you can reduce them by performing some TESTS and obtain GOOD paint guns that can allow your paint to get on the car instead of going into the filters.
If you need to...call me and I will aid you further if you need any help or advice. I have MANY tricks and an willing to pass them along.
"DUB"
(704)394-5150
08-05-2009, 09:34 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 1,232
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St. Jude Donor '12
Great write-up btw
Last edited by RobbSalzmann; 08-05-2009 at 10:13 PM.
08-05-2009, 10:10 PM
#9
Safety Car
USE SPI EPoxy and SPI Clear, great products and price,
and it can be used with any basecolor.
Not to mention you can call the owner on a sunday, and he will answer the phone !
and answer any questions you may have. You cannot beat that service !
then buy your base from a local Auto Paint dealer,
Yep, red is expensive, my Silver was about $350 a gallon for Dupont ChromaBase
But, I did paint it myself ! 69VETT
and it can be used with any basecolor.
Not to mention you can call the owner on a sunday, and he will answer the phone !
and answer any questions you may have. You cannot beat that service !
then buy your base from a local Auto Paint dealer,
Yep, red is expensive, my Silver was about $350 a gallon for Dupont ChromaBase
But, I did paint it myself ! 69VETT
08-06-2009, 12:48 AM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the response guys. Lotsa info to be digested here.
I have painted several cars over the years and I guess sticker shock may have occurred because the last red one was about 10 years ago.
I did bite the bullet and buy a gravity fed HVLP gun. That makes life a whole lot easier. Knowing I won't need a whole gallon will cut my cost somewhat too. The last car I painted was a couple of years ago and was an ugly brown Jaguar. On that one I used a turbine powered HVLP system. That doesn't work too well in the hot Florida summer Because the turbine heats the air and to make matters worse, the booth exhaust fan crashed in the middle of the second clear coat.
I'll continue to research this and if anybody can think of something more, please jump in. I need all the help I can get. When this does happen I'll post results with photos, unless it turn out bad, then I'll just hide.
Thanks again guys
Enjoy
Larry
I have painted several cars over the years and I guess sticker shock may have occurred because the last red one was about 10 years ago.
I did bite the bullet and buy a gravity fed HVLP gun. That makes life a whole lot easier. Knowing I won't need a whole gallon will cut my cost somewhat too. The last car I painted was a couple of years ago and was an ugly brown Jaguar. On that one I used a turbine powered HVLP system. That doesn't work too well in the hot Florida summer Because the turbine heats the air and to make matters worse, the booth exhaust fan crashed in the middle of the second clear coat.
I'll continue to research this and if anybody can think of something more, please jump in. I need all the help I can get. When this does happen I'll post results with photos, unless it turn out bad, then I'll just hide.
Thanks again guys
Enjoy
Larry
08-06-2009, 08:25 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
Hmm, I went to O'reillies and bought a gallon of PPG Omni paint, in Torch red, Nason Clear, and bought all my supplied online (sandpaper, and tape).
I don't remember what the paint cost me but I know I have less than $500 in my whole paintjob that I did myself
I previously paid some moron $3700 to paint my car and he botched it up so bad I redid it myself.
I'm never going to pay a "professional" again, mine turned out that good. I'm going to paint my Trans Am next spring.
I don't remember what the paint cost me but I know I have less than $500 in my whole paintjob that I did myself
I previously paid some moron $3700 to paint my car and he botched it up so bad I redid it myself.
I'm never going to pay a "professional" again, mine turned out that good. I'm going to paint my Trans Am next spring.
08-06-2009, 08:38 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: charlotte north carolina
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i used spi epoxy, nason color, and spi clear. it worked out well for a first-timer. if i remember correctly, the color was about $250 per gallon. i bought a gallon because it didn't cost much more than 2 quarts. lucky i did, because i had a few "learning experiences" and had to resand, epoxy and spray color.
08-06-2009, 01:08 PM
#13
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 265
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Hi Guys-
I have my 75 convertible ready to paint so went to the local PPG automotive paint store to buy paint and required materials. They quoted me $990 for paint, hardener, reducer, and everything for a base/clearcoat paintjob. Just the 1 gallon of red paint was $560.
It was nearly coronary time. Just for grins, I went out on the web and found the required materials offered by Paint For Cars Trinity 1945 for $172. Wide range dontcha think ????
I'm looking for advice from anybody out there who has painted their car with reasonable priced, reasonable quality paint. I also expect to probably get beaten up for being a cheapskate and "ya get what ya pay for" etc........
But c'mon, $560 a gallon ??????
Please help me out guys, suggestions ?
TIA
Larry
I have my 75 convertible ready to paint so went to the local PPG automotive paint store to buy paint and required materials. They quoted me $990 for paint, hardener, reducer, and everything for a base/clearcoat paintjob. Just the 1 gallon of red paint was $560.
It was nearly coronary time. Just for grins, I went out on the web and found the required materials offered by Paint For Cars Trinity 1945 for $172. Wide range dontcha think ????
I'm looking for advice from anybody out there who has painted their car with reasonable priced, reasonable quality paint. I also expect to probably get beaten up for being a cheapskate and "ya get what ya pay for" etc........
But c'mon, $560 a gallon ??????
Please help me out guys, suggestions ?
TIA
Larry
08-06-2009, 06:35 PM
#14
Former Vendor
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Charlotte North Carolina 704-394-5150
Posts: 766
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As for the type of Clearcoat I use.... I am relectant to say ....because... I have competition that ALSO is on the forum. And I do not want to give them an advantage in knowinig what type I use. I do this for a living and when it comes to "show" paint jobs...any edge I have, I keep close to me.
I will advise you to test ANY CLEARCOAT before you paint any major part on your car. And by testing it I also mean that AFTER paint a test part, ( old piece of fiberglass body or metal you have around the shop) you either force dry it or let it cure on its own (give it a few days in the sun) and then scratch it down to the metal /fiberglass and then repair it and see how it works during a "fresh" repair.
Usually, and I mean usually....any paint can be applied over primer and then the basecoat and then the clearcoat. These can be from DIFFERENT companies. The problem will occur when you try to REPAIR a damaged area and the solvents in each of these three layers (primer, basaecoat, clearcoat) can attack the layers at different rates and cause for a wrinkling effect ( much like bacon on a hot skillet). When wrinkling occurs you have a problem because now you have a delamination of your layers at the edge of the repair. So now you have to pull this wrinlking effect out , which makes your repair area larger. and this can go on and on until your have a MAJOR issue on your hands. SO that is why you want to TEST it WELL before paintiing or live with the concequences if you don't.
It is ALL about technique. How much you apply, how much is being applied and how long you allow each sprayed step to dry in between coats.
And when repairing "fresh" paint that has been damaged, requires a new set of procedures due to the layers are now going to be solvent sensitive.
Any of you guys and gals out there can paint a car. I KNOW this for a fact. BUT the difference between a good paint job and a GREAT paint job is all in the preparation and procedures that MUST NOT be altered if you are wanting something GREAT to look at and be PROUD of when completed.
IF any of you need advice or opinions on what will work for the LONG HAUL. I am here to help. BECAUSE YOU CAN DO IT!!!! All you need to do is take the first step and TRY.
I am off the "soap box" now, Just trying to PROFESSIONALLY inform others.
"DUB"
08-07-2009, 03:12 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: ESCONDIDO CA
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C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Have a couple of adult beverages and then sand down your kitchen cabinets---that feeling will pass...Thanks again Grandmaster and no need to give away trade secrets here. Its just good to know you're there when we need ya.
08-07-2009, 07:20 PM
#20
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2009
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[QUOTE=1969RAY;1571058186]Have a couple of adult beverages and then sand down your kitchen cabinets---that feeling will pass../QUOTE]
Agreed. It always sounds good, but you never realize how much work it is until you actually paint a car for the first time.... properly. I even paid someone to spray it and finish the paint, and we painted over one layer old BC/CC- no stripping. Between dismantling, body work, and sanding the old paint- then putting everything back on the car- that'll kill a few months til it's all done.
Speaking of sanding kitchen cabinets, the best advice I got was when the painter talked me into blowing a whole 40 bucks to get a DA sander from Harbor Freight- beat the HECK out of the sheets of sandpaper that I started with!
But between buying the paint and paying to spray and finish the paint- I got about $2300 into it for what I'd estimate to be a $5-6k paint job!
Agreed. It always sounds good, but you never realize how much work it is until you actually paint a car for the first time.... properly. I even paid someone to spray it and finish the paint, and we painted over one layer old BC/CC- no stripping. Between dismantling, body work, and sanding the old paint- then putting everything back on the car- that'll kill a few months til it's all done.
Speaking of sanding kitchen cabinets, the best advice I got was when the painter talked me into blowing a whole 40 bucks to get a DA sander from Harbor Freight- beat the HECK out of the sheets of sandpaper that I started with!
But between buying the paint and paying to spray and finish the paint- I got about $2300 into it for what I'd estimate to be a $5-6k paint job!