C3 brake options?
04-07-2009, 12:59 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
C3 brake options?
I am currently rebuilding my 73 vette (73 BB 4speed)right now. I want to update the brake system and am curious about my options. From browsing alot of post i have noticed different things that people are doing to their C3s. Of course the search function won't find anything of relevance when i need it to.
My question is, what are my options with updating the brake system on a c3, what works well, what does it cost, etc. (also is there any possible salvation for that stupid ebrake that is useless). I see pitures of people replacing their master cylinder with one from wilwood. Are the c5 brake kits worth their costs? Any suggestions on what would be a reasonable upgrade for the brake system would be appreciated
Clay
My question is, what are my options with updating the brake system on a c3, what works well, what does it cost, etc. (also is there any possible salvation for that stupid ebrake that is useless). I see pitures of people replacing their master cylinder with one from wilwood. Are the c5 brake kits worth their costs? Any suggestions on what would be a reasonable upgrade for the brake system would be appreciated
Clay
04-07-2009, 01:25 PM
#2
Drifting
Stainless Steels Brakes has a nice upgrade for C3 Vettes. http://www.ssbrakes.com/
They are much lighter than stock brakes and are a direct replacement.
They are much lighter than stock brakes and are a direct replacement.
04-07-2009, 01:55 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08
You dont need to toss $$$$ worth of brake parts to get a good braking performance, just get a hydroboost with its lines/fittings and you'll never regret it.
04-07-2009, 04:39 PM
#4
Team Owner
04-07-2009, 11:34 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
The C3 brakes were way ahead of there Time when they came out on the C2's and they really arn't that bad by todays standards unless your going to do Track days. Keep in mind that they are Four Piston Caliper Brakes at all corners. Uh the C4 and C5 brakes can't say that untill You get into the Z06 stuff. Besides the quirks that we all know of with them probably the biggest thing wrong with them by modern standards is that the Rotors arn't big enough. Unless You have 17" Wheels that dosn't matter either.The last Time I talked to Baer they were suposed to be working on C3 stuff and Willwood has had brakes for C3's for a number of Years.
04-07-2009, 11:47 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
My 71 has Hydroboost, Wilwood Lagunas and Blackhawks, Raybestos drilled and slotted rotors and braided hoses. It stops EXTREMELY well.......
Last edited by flynhi; 04-08-2009 at 01:27 AM.
04-08-2009, 12:46 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
The C3 brakes were way ahead of there Time when they came out on the C2's and they really arn't that bad by todays standards unless your going to do Track days. Keep in mind that they are Four Piston Caliper Brakes at all corners. Uh the C4 and C5 brakes can't say that untill You get into the Z06 stuff. Besides the quirks that we all know of with them probably the biggest thing wrong with them by modern standards is that the Rotors arn't big enough. Unless You have 17" Wheels that dosn't matter either.The last Time I talked to Baer they were suposed to be working on C3 stuff and Willwood has had brakes for C3's for a number of Years.
IMHO floating calipers would be a step back from C2/C3 disc brake system.
Simple upgrades that will improve the OEM system without breaking the bank are 1) premium pads, such as Hawk HPS or HP Plus; 2) replacing the flex hoses with quality braided lines, (read, "Goodridge"); 3) upgrading to Dot 4 or better, non-silicone brake fluid (flame-thrower ready); and, of course, there's always 4) SS, o-ringed calipers/pistons. If your idea of "spirited driving" requires still more improvement, there remain a number of additional mods shy of changing everything out altogether which IMHO are worth consideration, hardcore as they may be. Just ask if that sounds like something you'd be interested in.
If you'd rather go aftermarket, Wilwood Laguna (front) & Blackhawk (rear) 4-piston calipers fit w/stock rotors & wheels (per CF'er Corvette Engineering), or you can step up from there, depending on your budget. Hope that helps.
TSW
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; 04-08-2009 at 12:54 AM.
04-08-2009, 10:55 AM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
Great ideas everyone
. I am definitly looking into the hydro boost and some aftermarket calipers and rotors. what is a good aftermarket solution for the parking break?
. I am definitly looking into the hydro boost and some aftermarket calipers and rotors. what is a good aftermarket solution for the parking break?
04-08-2009, 11:36 AM
#9
Drifting
04-08-2009, 10:20 PM
#11
Team Owner
Assuming you have SS lined calipers, and being these cars are SO old now, it's hard to imagine any that are on the car and NOT SS lined...easy to determine...shiney bores and no pits....
so the O rings do not react with the springs, as being too snug in the fit...take more pressure to slide....
the OEM style lip seals are better off and more tolerant of rotor runout/bearing slop without those springs helping cause that pumping action, that makes the calipers ingest air and cause a non existent/soft pedal....if there is NO spring, the pads/pistons are simply knocked aside and are not used as a air pump to the hydraulics....
essentially a bad design....for automotive use....
don't forget, disc brakes are a aircraft use take off from the late 50's.....first appearing in '65.....not so awful evil a system for it's time...but that was nearly 50 years ago...
time for a update, methinks?? maybe?....
so the O rings do not react with the springs, as being too snug in the fit...take more pressure to slide....
the OEM style lip seals are better off and more tolerant of rotor runout/bearing slop without those springs helping cause that pumping action, that makes the calipers ingest air and cause a non existent/soft pedal....if there is NO spring, the pads/pistons are simply knocked aside and are not used as a air pump to the hydraulics....
essentially a bad design....for automotive use....
don't forget, disc brakes are a aircraft use take off from the late 50's.....first appearing in '65.....not so awful evil a system for it's time...but that was nearly 50 years ago...
time for a update, methinks?? maybe?....
04-09-2009, 09:21 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2006
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Assuming you have SS lined calipers, and being these cars are SO old now, it's hard to imagine any that are on the car and NOT SS lined...easy to determine...shiney bores and no pits....
so the O rings do not react with the springs, as being too snug in the fit...take more pressure to slide....
the OEM style lip seals are better off and more tolerant of rotor runout/bearing slop without those springs helping cause that pumping action, that makes the calipers ingest air and cause a non existent/soft pedal....if there is NO spring, the pads/pistons are simply knocked aside and are not used as a air pump to the hydraulics....
essentially a bad design....for automotive use....
don't forget, disc brakes are a aircraft use take off from the late 50's.....first appearing in '65.....not so awful evil a system for it's time...but that was nearly 50 years ago...
time for a update, methinks?? maybe?....
so the O rings do not react with the springs, as being too snug in the fit...take more pressure to slide....
the OEM style lip seals are better off and more tolerant of rotor runout/bearing slop without those springs helping cause that pumping action, that makes the calipers ingest air and cause a non existent/soft pedal....if there is NO spring, the pads/pistons are simply knocked aside and are not used as a air pump to the hydraulics....
essentially a bad design....for automotive use....
don't forget, disc brakes are a aircraft use take off from the late 50's.....first appearing in '65.....not so awful evil a system for it's time...but that was nearly 50 years ago...
time for a update, methinks?? maybe?....
04-09-2009, 05:54 PM
#13
Pro
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04-09-2009, 06:01 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
04-09-2009, 06:35 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have been reading up on these systems for a few days now. I'm trying to plan before i break the bank on a system that isn't matched correctly.
Hydroboost plumbs into the power steering pump and uses the positive pressure from your ps pump to apply break pressure. The particular reason that people seem to be switching to hydroboost over vacuum boost is that motors with performance cams produce less vacuum than un-modified motors. This results in less assistance with braking. Not that significant of a problem. However, (this is why i am seeing that it is a bonus on the vettes) if the car has alot of devices that require vacuum to operate(a/c, headlights, etc) then the amount of motor vacuum is divided between the entire system which leads to even less assistance with braking.
Shortly put (from what i have been studying, feel free to and PLEASE correct me if i am wrong) where vacuum pressure is not constant(usually drops at low rpms) and (particularly in the vettes) engine vacuum i used to drive a number of different things. Switching to the use of the power steering pump as a source for brake force assistance helps by giving a more constant, greater, and dependable source of power.
Hydroboost plumbs into the power steering pump and uses the positive pressure from your ps pump to apply break pressure. The particular reason that people seem to be switching to hydroboost over vacuum boost is that motors with performance cams produce less vacuum than un-modified motors. This results in less assistance with braking. Not that significant of a problem. However, (this is why i am seeing that it is a bonus on the vettes) if the car has alot of devices that require vacuum to operate(a/c, headlights, etc) then the amount of motor vacuum is divided between the entire system which leads to even less assistance with braking.
Shortly put (from what i have been studying, feel free to and PLEASE correct me if i am wrong) where vacuum pressure is not constant(usually drops at low rpms) and (particularly in the vettes) engine vacuum i used to drive a number of different things. Switching to the use of the power steering pump as a source for brake force assistance helps by giving a more constant, greater, and dependable source of power.
04-09-2009, 07:11 PM
#17
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Assuming you have SS lined calipers, and being these cars are SO old now, it's hard to imagine any that are on the car and NOT SS lined...easy to determine...shiney bores and no pits....
so the O rings do not react with the springs, as being too snug in the fit...take more pressure to slide....
the OEM style lip seals are better off and more tolerant of rotor runout/bearing slop without those springs helping cause that pumping action, that makes the calipers ingest air and cause a non existent/soft pedal....if there is NO spring, the pads/pistons are simply knocked aside and are not used as a air pump to the hydraulics....
essentially a bad design....for automotive use....
don't forget, disc brakes are a aircraft use take off from the late 50's.....first appearing in '65.....not so awful evil a system for it's time...but that was nearly 50 years ago...
time for a update, methinks?? maybe?....
so the O rings do not react with the springs, as being too snug in the fit...take more pressure to slide....
the OEM style lip seals are better off and more tolerant of rotor runout/bearing slop without those springs helping cause that pumping action, that makes the calipers ingest air and cause a non existent/soft pedal....if there is NO spring, the pads/pistons are simply knocked aside and are not used as a air pump to the hydraulics....
essentially a bad design....for automotive use....
don't forget, disc brakes are a aircraft use take off from the late 50's.....first appearing in '65.....not so awful evil a system for it's time...but that was nearly 50 years ago...
time for a update, methinks?? maybe?....
Thanks.
Michael.
