killain

I was just wondering if all of you have ever noticed that old corvettes are priced so high sometimes that their really unrealistic as far as price VS worth? Not far from me is a 72 corvette coupe, green and up on blocks. It has no motor or transmission and has been sitting on blocks for at least five years. It isn't covered and the only residents are two neighborhood cats who use it as an observation platform. The windows are down a little and the white interior inside is now a shade of gray muck from all the dust and dirt, some if not all of the controls and guages are missing or broken and overall it's major parts are in permenant MIA status. Easily you would have one heck of a project to even reassemble the car back to basic operational (meaning sitting on all four wheels and able to be towed) condition not to mention all the resoring work that needs to be done, Heater core, exhaust system springs and of course there are going to be many many leaks. But the owner is of the mind it's a classic and as such it's worth 7.000 dollars at the very minumim, so there she sits with sun rain snow and lots and lots of dirt and bird crap coating her. Why do people think that since it's a corvette it's automaticly worth thousands even if it's basicly shot. And if your looking for a early C-1 or a C-2 forget it. Bare fiberglas hulks are priced in the multi thousands of dollars. You can't even find a basketcase C-2 for less than $20.000? I wonder if the price of Corvettes hasn't finally eclisped the point that they are no longer available to someone of average blue collor status?


[Modified by killain, 9:40 AM 1/27/2002]

Larry B.

I have seen this comming for awhile.. In the mid eighties investors sought tangible items to invest in and old corvettes were one of those items. The prices went up in a hurry and then kinda leveled off. Now we are seeing it happen again. Every car that sells for big $$ affects all of our cars and gives lots of people a distorted view of prices. Just because an L-88 sells for 100K doesn't mean that every 427 car is worth that. But..in the eyes of some people a piece of sh-- is worth a fortune because it is a Corvette.

killain

I have been wanting to find another corvette, but each time I find something that is worn, well worn and in need of restoring, the owner wants as much as a restored car would bring. It's just unrealistic prices that people are asking for truly worn out Corvettes! And a worn out corvette is just that?

Alwyn678

Unfortunately I do not think that prices of nice cars will Ever devaluate..However trash is trash

Paul L

Based on my experience at cruise day/nights and speaking with many persons of all ages I am convinced that baby boomers (born 1946-60) are driving the C2 and C3 markets. Many in this demographic group (and I am one) are looking to early retirement - Freedom 55 if you wish. The kids are gone, the mortgage is history, investments have done well and the pension is monthly insurance. Part-time jobs often suuplement the latter. Too young to be truly retired and with health and time to do a few things that the 9-5 world would not permit. So they go back to the 1960-70s when they drooled over Corvettes but could not afford one. Now they can. A vehicle can become a link to the past.

And they buy at often outrageous prices. I have been offered dollars for my 1979 that defies any economic or market logic. But when it happens many times such actions define the new market. And I believe that is what we are seeing. I have found two major groups in the boomer category: those who have time and wish to restore and those who wish to drive. The former is a candidate to purchase your example. Those in the latter group want a turn-key unit such as mine.

Sticking with the latter, I have noted a trend toward originality. Not numbers matching necessarily, but originality. There was a post the other day about Corvette owners wanting performance goodies when they own the car but preach originality when they sell. There is a lesson of sorts there. And the C3 Forum in general is high on performance; less so on restroration. I realize that there is another section for that. This certainly not a knock on the performance people but just a suggestion that those who are, or who may be soon, driving the market are generally not into high-lift cams or 10.5:1 compression. They want a car that looks like it came out of the factory and is dependable during a Sunday afternoon drive.

So, I blame the boomers to a great extent. And I include myself as noted above. Now if I could just find a C2 roadster in my price range....Back to high school I go.

Just a few thoughts for members' critique.

JB

Paul, I think your right about boomers driving the vette market & looking for "originality." What I don't quite get is why. I mean, when I was a kid, everyone who was into cars would have sold his mother for a vette--but it was the vette with the blower sticking through the hood everyone wanted (and I still want :D ). I guess maybe it's that people generally get more conservative as they grow older, and so while they still want the vette, they find the speed gear a little over the top.

JB

'78SA

fauxrs

Actually I think that ones fairly easy to answer. The boomers, I too fit right on the tail end of that era, are grown up now, some of us are more conservative, but most of us have gone into a mind set of value. Certainly when we were teens we wanted the fasted vette we could get our hands on.

But we are older, hopefully wiser, and we realize the a 1969 vette thats had a blower poking through its hood since 73 has likely been thrashed to within an inch of its life. We also subconsiously know that the more original the car the greater its worth (to the general vette buying public) and we are all about that now.

Finally, since we have all done several cars by now we also know from experience that buying someone else's project, whether complete or not, is often a crap shoot. Original cars are a known factor, reasonably easy to diagnose and hopefully bubba free, others........?

At least thats my opinion FWIW

bl75vette

Paul79, I couldn't agree with you more. My wife and I are now empty nesters since our two boys graduated college and moved out. I finally bougt into the vette market (low end) and plan to work my way up. I prefer original looking and performing vettes. Generally, younger owners like custom and the need for speed.

The price/worth ratio if I may, is controlled by supply and demand and the fact that many vettes have hit the compactor. Now people realize that there are only so many to go around and they become more desirable. Also I see that corvettes are being exported to other countries which also depleats the supply. Let's all hope this trend continues and doesn't end like the baseball card collections.

I just posted my original, supposed to be out of the paint shop on Friday. Keeping my fingers crossed. By the way - going with the original classic white paint.

lbell101

I don't see the problem with anything driving the market. Nice cars should bring good prices. We all know it's rare that a nice car sells for enough to cover the costs of repairing it. The only way I'd make $$ on mine is if I drove it off a cliff - on the way to a sposored event of course.
The real problem killian is pointing out is that crap cars are VERY often overpriced. These people see a totally restored big block vert sell for 30 grand and think thier frame rotted weed planter former SB coupe is worth 10 grand. The only thing this can be attributed to is a mix of ignorance & greed.

Jughead

Maybe these boomers should be looking at C-5's instead.

killain

Paul, your very on target with you observations and I agree 100%. I too am 50, born in 1951 and i have had a few Corvettes over the years, (By the way your Vette and mine are carbon copies of each other, mine less the spoilers) But ibell101 and 1970 stingray see my point. The corvette I spoke about has been up on blocks so long and it's not level is on this makeshift, uneven rickity combination of jackstands and cinder blocks that it would not surprise me if the frame isn't bent from being sprung at a cocky angle for so long. The car, If you could see it is going to disintagrate into a light green pile of junk at some point in the near future. The only hope for this or any Vette in this conditionis for someone like myself who desires to restore it to a useable condition. When the current owner finally realizes that wanting a ton of cash for a slow dying machine is not reasonable the corvette will have become a parts car and thus another basicly salvagable car is forfitted to some scrapper. To me this is a total waste. we as corvette hobbiest lose another examble of a classic car to some pig headed owner who oboviously uneducated owner who wants a lot of money for what he believes is a 'classic car' In reality it's a car that could have been saved but is now held hostage to a market sense that is both unreasonable and uneducated. Everybody loses in this mindset. I agree there is little we could do about it, but it's much like historic buildings being held by slumlords, the originality of the building is slowly lost to greed. In the end everyone loses. I have met people who though see that holding something so long that it becomes just a basic lost cause, and they have sought out a restorer to come estimate a fair price and then on the condition that the car is going to be restored, not scraped will sell the car. But those types of forward looking people are few and far between. Especially within the ranks of corvette owners. The peole who don't know or understand a Corvette are willing to dump a lot of money into a marginal car only inflat a already dollar heavy segment of the collector car hobby and in the end they acually hurt the market in the long run. I have looked too long and have run up against the same mentality too many times to incorrect. IMHO


[Modified by killain, 12:24 PM 1/27/2002]


[Modified by killain, 12:24 PM 1/27/2002]

JB

1970 Stingray, you're missing the point--the boomers aren't buying speed or prestige (C5s, that is), they're buying nostalgia. The car that would have made them cool in highschool.

Not to mention, you can get a hell of a nice C3 for half of what a new C5 would cost you.

JB

'78SA





[Modified by JB, 11:38 AM 1/27/2002]

Carl in LA

The classic negotiation tactic in labor is recruitment and retention... If either one is in jepordy, then wages go up. The parallel in cars is supply and demand. Supply of C3's is generally fixed with very few coming back into the market after being hidden in barns or worse but I don't see that as driving the market, hence, its got to be demand. Those in the sport have made is so attractive that others want to get into it. I would like to think that my "restored" car inspires others and consequently the demand is there. Perhaps that is a suggestion that should go to the forum... begin keeping statistics on the sale of cars.

I also know this... I will be a better buyer now that I know precisely what it costs to rebuild a Corvette... When I start shopping again I can show the seller very accurately what the retail is for a top flight car and start deducting for the things wrong with that particular car... I'll make my offer and let it stand while the seller entertains offers from others... If it's too late when they call back, that's tough for them... If I end up paying more than what I wanted to... that must mean that the top of the market is moving up!

jerryp58

It could be that the demand (from the baby boomer group) is higher, but higher prices for "trashed" Corvettes could also be the result of a lull in sales of "clean" Corvettes. Maybe owners of the clean cars are enjoying & driving them, or sitting on them waiting for the prices to go up (happened with 55 & 57 Chevys and 65 & 66 Mustangs several times). Either way, supply of clean Corvettes is reduced and the price goes up. Look at how the price of any used car has risen because of the cost of new cars.

Just a thought.


[Modified by jerryp58, 3:17 PM 1/27/2002]

WESCH

Hi
Doesn't it also appear that somebody buys a car for 10.000, puts an other 10.000 into it over x amount of years driving it and when he sells it, thinks he should get all reimbursed including the normal wear and tear.
People somehow don't deduct the years of driving fun and just add up.
You can never get back all money spend on a old car , can you ?
Yes, C2's are to expensive, but why does everybody want a 67 427/435 side pipe car or a 63 split window ? Just because they are worth so much !!
Well, I have to be happy ( and am ) with my 68 convert big block .
May be, hmm , when I get my pension, I will drive the prices up a bit as well and get a 67 bla..bla.. :D
Gunther

JB

Too right, Gunther. I even catch myself doing that kind of stupid math--I paid X for it, and I've dropped Y into it, so it ought to be worth Z. It's what the market will bear, as always, and the guys sitting on rusty beaters like they were gold will probably keep sitting on them a while.

BTW, that's a purty ride you got there, Gunther. It's kind of ironic that were bitching about prices here, while that car of yours must have really cost you a mint there in Luxumbourg.

JB

'78SA

killain

I agree with you guys and Gunther that is one beautiful Corvette, needless to say it's a big dollar 68 with a 427 so it IS worth a good deal more than mine or a lot of other cars. I'm talking about beaters or project cars and owners who think because you have a 68 427 convert. that their 77 coupe with is sitting on two wheels and hasn't run since 1985 that they should get close to what your car is worth? There's really no comparison in what a 1969 perfectly restored car would bring next to a car that hasn't been restored or even been maintained. I just think that the high overall prices drive up the price of really poor unrestored car unrealisticly. It's haerd to even find a project C-3 anymore. And I'm not talking about cars that need everything including the replacement frame. Replaceing the frame of a corvette is akin to reinventing the wheel in my humble opinion.


[Modified by killain, 8:11 AM 1/28/2002]

73Ken73

I think that Vettes are under valued. My car is 29 years old and almost every part is rebuilt or new. I would have a hard time selling my car for what a new Taurus costs. Most C3s sell for about the price of a new Neon. I think my Vette should be worth as much as a new pick up truck. You can buy a nice C2 for less than a Suburban.


[Modified by 73Ken73, 8:24 PM 1/27/2002]

Imabadman

I find this topic very interesting. I would like to ask the senior members of this forum for their opinion. I am twenty three years old and have owned a 1976 Corvette Stingray for three years now. I paid $5k even for the vehicle. The California car had 78000 original miles without the engine or auto tranny being rebuilt. The only modifications that the original owner(whom I bought the vehicle from) had done to the car was to pull the smog system, pipe in dual exhaust, replace the tires and shocks, and put in a new radio. Everything else was stock, including the original spare that has never hit the ground. The vehicle ran great in every respect. I put over 21000 miles on the vehicle like this with the only thing needing replacement being the halfshaft ujoints and the heater core, the only other problem was the A/C that ceased to function. The modifications in my signature are sitting on the engine stand right now, waiting for me to drop it in this weekend. My original intentions were to rebuild the original engine with some minor performance mods. After removing and dissassembling the engine, I figured what the heck, why not do some more serious mods and get a little more hp? So getting to my question, for the sake of originality should I restore the original engine and have future plans for a full restoration of the car?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Nathan

killain

I tend to like originality, as many people who are going into the market do. For that reason as well as some others, I'd restore the original engine, Provided you still have it and it's collective parts and store it. Most people are extreamly short sighted when it comes to modifing a corvette, they throw away everything stock and or original and just go like hell. When it comes time to sell the car a prospective buyer asks were is this or that and how original it the engine/ Interior/ suspension/ Ect. and the seller almost always says it went out in the trash X number of years ago. The prosepctive buyer now perhaps wishing for an original car must subtract from the cars price how much it's going to cost to return the car to original status. What a shame as all of this could of been advoided with some proper pre- planing . It is much safer to realize that ANY prospective and or future buyer of your car is not going to appriciate nor understand the hows and why's of all your modifications. . . . EVER! A pure all stock car is always going to be worth more to an average buyer than a heavily modified car. All the modifications that you do are your plans and hopes, and buyer is going to have a whole different set of values that adversely affect the price. Just like a house.


[Modified by killain, 9:11 AM 1/28/2002]