Jud Chapin

[QUOTE=Averystingray75;1565993308]

jerrylee

[QUOTE=Jud Chapin;1565999716] Plus Mobil ran a similiar test in Vegas with there taxi fleet n the winner by a mile was synthetic.....There is tons of data showing the advantages of synthetic over regular oil.......Jerrylee///

BLOCKMAN

We build a lot of circle track engines and on our flat tappet solid lifter cams we run 170 to 180 at the seat and over the nose is 430 and some of our engines run 1.9 ratio rockers and all our customer have been running the AMSOIL for years with no problems. I think taxi cab engines are a little different then what we run for engines.

I have a good friend that builds some top engines and found out years ago the hard way that Mobil 1 had changed their formular and after talking with teck at Mobil 1 told them that the oil was not to be used in his flat tappet applicataion.

Rather then argue with me give Steve a Call 207-622-0216 as he can fill you in on everthing that Mobil 1 said

I am sure Mobil pays GM to put that on their engines and in the manuals as I bought an 07 Peterbilt and they recommended Quaker State Delo but after doing some research I found oil with higher zinc and phosephate properties.

I am sure on roller lifter engines Mobil 1 would be fine.

The best rule of thumb is ithe container does not say racing oil on it the zinc and phosephate have been lowered and should not be used with flat tappet cams.

Mobil use to a very good oil till years ago before they reformulater for the newer engines.

jb78L-82

The only Mobile 1 recommended for flat tappet cams is their 15W-50 Racing with 1,200 PPM ZDDP. Check the chart on Mobile's website where the recommendation for flat tappet cams is specifically listed along with the ZDDP levels for all their oils and their applications.

Here is the link:http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

chevymans 77

Mike you've been given numerous examples of reference material and yet you refuse to believe, and that is fine by me, we will all makeup our own mind in the end. Some times it is best to do your own test and believe what we find for our self. There are articles referenced here that are good reading material for someone that would like to find out more on synthetic oils. I've spent numerous years working on unlimited outboard motors for drag boats around ring fit and sealing and have performed numerous tests on the benefits of synthetic oils in these engines so I have a little first hand knowledge of there benefits. I will not clutter up this thread started by Benito with the debate of weather synthetics are better than Dino oils. He asked a simple question and that was is synthetic oil better for his car, in my opinion it is money well spent. Switch to synthetic oil and enjoy your car.

Neal

BLOCKMAN

The spring pressures we run 1200 PPM of zinc is very low hell the 20/50 http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ oil we run has 2300 PPM of zinc and the 15/40 we use our is some of our street builds has 1582 PPM.

Our oil temps run low with the AMSOIL products compared to dyno oils and some of their oil are rated a 25000 and I beleive 35000 mile where as the Mobil rates theirs at 15000 miles and they may give some idea on how good their oils are.

And we have heard good results with the Royal pupal.

Mobil has changed their formular to many times over the years and its surely not what it use to be.

Mike Ward

That's great- exactly the proof I'm looking for. Can you give me link?

Here's the taxi cab link I was mentioning- except that it states the opposite of your claim.

http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm

I'm always willing to learn. It's unfortunate that 99% of the so-called reference material is actually self serving studies organised by the manufacturers themselves- like the oft quoted studies by Amsoil or Mobil.

Guys don't get me wrong, I find NO FAULT with synthetic oils. I'm just looking for proof that they are better.

jb78L-82

Just for reference guys, the latest issue of Corvette Fever magazine has a multiple page article on this oil issue and specifically states "There are two ways a person can ensure they are using oil that has sufficient amounts of antiwear additives commonly lised as 1,200 PPM ZDDP for flat tappet engines with stock valve springs and 1,400 PPM for engines with higher spring rates" . Direct quote which suggests that Mobil 1 Racing 15W-50 with 1,200 PPM (see link above for chart) is right on the money for street engines with stock valve trains. I have also read in various reports that too much ZDDP is not beneficial to the engine since there is a point where too much ZDDP actually is harmful to the engine so I would be cautious about more is good and much more is much better. As I have said many times before, street engines usually have much different requirements than race engines so it's difficult to draw analogies between the two settings. Heck, the Mclaren Mercedes Formula 1 car uses 2.4 liter V8's turning 19,000 RPM and uses Mobil 1 synthetic oil but that doesn't mean I should use Mobil 1, but it sure is interesting!

jb78L-82

Read the article and I am a little uncomfortable that there was no author listed, no references for some of the comments, no name of the testing labs, and the article itself is from 1996. In addition, I quote from this article that there IS REAL benefit to synthetics from this 13 year old article, "One distinction: According to the laboratory tests, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax synthetics flow exceptionally easily at low temperatures - a condition our taxi tests didn't simulate effectively. They also had the highest viscosity under high-temperature, high-stress conditions, when a thick oil protects the engine. Thus, these oils may be a good choice for hard driving in extreme temperatures." By the articles own admission, cold starts were not simulated with the taxi's for obvious reasons, since cabs do not generally start and stop like most vehicles, a condition that is generally well known to cause a significant, if not majority, of wear in street engines. These benefits have been mentioned numerous times already by many on this forum. Either way, to each his own, as stated previously.

Jud Chapin

I'd just like to add a some comments regarding this issue that have nothing to do with any research reports or like information.
It's hard to believe that as long as synthetics have been around that they are no better than mineral oil, especially when they cost 3 times as much. If this were true, I think they would have been history long ago.
Over time, they have become extremely popular as they are factory fill for many high performance and luxury cars as we all know. Further indicating their popularity, I worked at Advance Auto for several years and while my store was located in an upscale neighborhood, Mobil 1 was the best seller of ALL OILS in the store.
And when you think about it, how many products can you name that a particular company manufactures were one is the standard and another is marketed as a premium costing 3 times as much when in reality there is no difference between them in performance?
What I'm trying to say is that if there is no performance difference between the two oils, this is one of the biggest scams in the history of this country. I just don't think the American consumer is this stupid. Just my 2 cents.

V77Vette

Castrol Motor Oil
Castrol SYNTEC: No 5W30 Motor Oil Maintains Maximum Horsepower Longer
www.CastrolSyntec.com

benito

Wow! ... I did not suspect the response I got from what I thought was a rather basic question. Thank you all for the info and experience.
I am going to shift to synthetic oil.

7T1vette

I've spent 40 years working for GM [engineer] and can assure you that NO oil company has ever paid GM to put their oil in any vehicle. GM puts the least expensive oil in any car that will perform as is necessary for operation and for warrany coverage; now they choose to use synthetics in their performance products. They have executed [and commissioned] their own testing for wear and function, and all the testing has proved that synthetic oils (properly blended for the particular needs) are FAR superior in every way. Sorry, Mike & Benito, those tests are proprietary and they will not be released to you in order to prove their validity. Organic oils were the best lubrication item available for about 100 years. Now they are still good...but not better than synthetics [by a very significant margin]. I would propose that those who do not believe that synthetics are "better", produce a valid study [on a topic that is relevant to this discussion] that shows organic oils are BETTER than synthetics.

Mike Ward

The discussion has been 'is synthetic better than organic' and as yet no credible, unbiased reports have been produced. Nowhere has anybody suggested that organics are better than synthetics nor would I be foolish enough to state that.

My contention is that the theoretical benefits (which is 99% of the discussion above) is of little or no practical benefit in a Chevrolet V8.

The engines wear out and require an overhaul (from non-lubrication related causes) long before the supposed long term benefits be of use.

So even if all the retoric above was proven to be correct, what would be gained?

BLOCKMAN

One thing is for sure the syn we recomend has shown on many oil temp gauges a 30 to 50 degrees in oil temp which says a lot and I deal with a lot of performance engiens builders who can't get flat tappet cams to live with the Mobil 1 oil and I see thay oinly rate their oil at 15000 miles where as AMSOIL has oil that is good for 35000 big differance there plus if you do a little research AMSOIL is the pioneer of synthetics and has been proven in our shop and our customers are happy with the product.

When we build these engines we don't need a cam and lifter failuar as that when is cost money.

I am sure GM get a hell of a deal on buying the Mobil products

DINO oils break down around 260 degrees and the good synthetic oil are around 500 degrees.