First test drive of my QA-1 dual adjust Coil Over front end.
03-25-2010, 12:36 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
Sorry for bringing up an old thread.... but how have you found the dual adjustable QA1 shocks? Any feedback?
And how easy is it to get to the adjust controls?
cheers
tom
03-25-2010, 12:55 AM
#25
Racer
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Christchurch Canterbury
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I also have the 350# springs for my QA-1's So I'm going to throw them on. I really did like how flat my car would turn at the limits of my street tires. I also did notice any front end dive.
As I understand it cutting coils increases the spring # rate. I don't want the front end so over sprung that the tires don't follow rough pavement.
I'm going to call QA-1 and ask what my options are
As I understand it cutting coils increases the spring # rate. I don't want the front end so over sprung that the tires don't follow rough pavement.
I'm going to call QA-1 and ask what my options are
03-25-2010, 07:45 AM
#26
Pro
I have similar problems with my QA1 kit. Gkull, got my springs the other day. I went with the 400# from SpeedDirect, as I don't road race; just street driving and drags. I figured I could dial up the shocks to firm things up a little when needed. Unfortunately, the shock adapters are on back-order, so I can't tell you how it works just yet.
FYI to all - if you're the type that doesn't want to cut/file/grind your factory A-arms, you can fit the single adjustable (non-coilover) shocks through the A-arm if you remove the adjustment **** via the small allen set screw. Just mark it first so you can put it back in the right orientation.
FYI to all - if you're the type that doesn't want to cut/file/grind your factory A-arms, you can fit the single adjustable (non-coilover) shocks through the A-arm if you remove the adjustment **** via the small allen set screw. Just mark it first so you can put it back in the right orientation.
Last edited by TPIShark; 03-25-2010 at 07:48 AM.
03-25-2010, 09:25 AM
#27
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Just to update this old post. I now have the 600# speed direct front springs for the QA-1 semi coil over front end shocks. I drove around for 20 years with 550# VB&P stockish type springs. So the 600's are nothing. I ordered the 650, but they are on back order or something.
I took a WAG on intitial setup before driving and 9 turns up on each collar was so close to 27 1/4 inch of fender well height that I have not readjusted the collars.
Left is the original suck *** 450# QA-1 right blue spring is the 600# I noticed that Money pit still had his rubber bump stops in place. I removed them front and rear as excess weight and they have never touched anyway.
I took a WAG on intitial setup before driving and 9 turns up on each collar was so close to 27 1/4 inch of fender well height that I have not readjusted the collars.
Left is the original suck *** 450# QA-1 right blue spring is the 600# I noticed that Money pit still had his rubber bump stops in place. I removed them front and rear as excess weight and they have never touched anyway.
03-25-2010, 12:39 PM
#29
Team Owner
Thread Starter
No fitment or driving problems. Dual adjust shocks are kind of hard to setup without data acquisition. So I just set them at 10 clicks of 20 clicks each and go from there
I told somebody the other day that ask me about them not getting the open end of their coil spring into the upper pocket.
I said that a smart person takes a flash light and looks up in the upper spring pocket when everything is out and then marks on the outer frame where the end of the coil goes.
I'm thinking that what if you drilled a small hole from above right at the end of the spring pocket. So you could do a quick visual
I told somebody the other day that ask me about them not getting the open end of their coil spring into the upper pocket.
I said that a smart person takes a flash light and looks up in the upper spring pocket when everything is out and then marks on the outer frame where the end of the coil goes.
I'm thinking that what if you drilled a small hole from above right at the end of the spring pocket. So you could do a quick visual
03-25-2010, 01:23 PM
#30
Race Director
No fitment or driving problems. Dual adjust shocks are kind of hard to setup without data acquisition. So I just set them at 10 clicks of 20 clicks each and go from there
I told somebody the other day that ask me about them not getting the open end of their coil spring into the upper pocket.
I said that a smart person takes a flash light and looks up in the upper spring pocket when everything is out and then marks on the outer frame where the end of the coil goes.
I'm thinking that what if you drilled a small hole from above right at the end of the spring pocket. So you could do a quick visual
I told somebody the other day that ask me about them not getting the open end of their coil spring into the upper pocket.
I said that a smart person takes a flash light and looks up in the upper spring pocket when everything is out and then marks on the outer frame where the end of the coil goes.
I'm thinking that what if you drilled a small hole from above right at the end of the spring pocket. So you could do a quick visual
With your kind of driving, I'd expect 550s to be the minimum. Autocrossers are running 1000# + springs in C3s.
When are you gonna put a big & tall person seat in that car so that I can drive it?
03-25-2010, 01:25 PM
#31
Thanks G for the tip. 
I wouldn't mind if you update this topic with shock settings along the ride - I know we are on opposite end of the suspension spectrum field but nevertheless I'm curious of the bump-rebound ratio.
If I recall correctly the Bilsteins VBP offered were valved 40/60 bump/rebound for fiberglass spring.
I wouldn't mind if you update this topic with shock settings along the ride - I know we are on opposite end of the suspension spectrum field but nevertheless I'm curious of the bump-rebound ratio.
If I recall correctly the Bilsteins VBP offered were valved 40/60 bump/rebound for fiberglass spring.
03-25-2010, 03:00 PM
#32
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I knew you could solve this with a shorter, thicker coil spring. Too bad you didn't ask me earlier.
With your kind of driving, I'd expect 550s to be the minimum. Autocrossers are running 1000# + springs in C3s.
When are you gonna put a big & tall person seat in that car so that I can drive it?
With your kind of driving, I'd expect 550s to be the minimum. Autocrossers are running 1000# + springs in C3s.
When are you gonna put a big & tall person seat in that car so that I can drive it?
AS to my Vette and the smaller driver seat and hard to get in and out of roll cage. Some things can't easily be changed!
03-25-2010, 03:17 PM
#33
Team Owner
Thread Starter
If your just sporting around on the street 40/60 50/50 60/40 are all good settings depending on your spring rate. If you have 400# springs I would lean more towards 60/40. or 70/30 keeps your front end from diving or corner roll in and off the gas tight turn.
But lets say you are on the track with big corner rumble strips and your hitting them at 120 mph. You want the wheel to take the object shock without lifting the body. So for that turn and that front wheel you might want both light compression and rebound so your tire stays in contact with the rumble strip and comes right back down on the pavement.
I imagine with my very light front end car and 600# I might end up with a 7-8 clicks of compression and 8-9 rebound with 24 being the highest. If it feels bouncy I would up the compression first.
Last edited by gkull; 04-15-2010 at 09:16 AM.
03-25-2010, 03:43 PM
#34
Race Director
Well it is like this. When somebody starts telling my about their 1000# springs out on the road coarse with their C-3 95% of the time they are at the back of the field in lap times. Unless it is an extensively caged/tube frame with modded everything. Because at some point the springs quit compressing and frame starts to flex or bend. I've looked at all the winning vintage race cars for years now and they change springs for each track, but we install generally from 600 on ruff tracks to 850's on smooth tracks.
AS to my Vette and the smaller driver seat and hard to get in and out of roll cage. Some things can't easily be changed!
AS to my Vette and the smaller driver seat and hard to get in and out of roll cage. Some things can't easily be changed!
1000# makes a whole lot more sense in an autocross, where the course is typically very flat and the cars are driven 60 seconds at a time. Of course, they don't have to be capable of running much longer than 60 seconds either.
03-26-2010, 08:36 AM
#35
Pro
No fitment or driving problems. Dual adjust shocks are kind of hard to setup without data acquisition. So I just set them at 10 clicks of 20 clicks each and go from there
I told somebody the other day that ask me about them not getting the open end of their coil spring into the upper pocket.
I said that a smart person takes a flash light and looks up in the upper spring pocket when everything is out and then marks on the outer frame where the end of the coil goes.
I'm thinking that what if you drilled a small hole from above right at the end of the spring pocket. So you could do a quick visual
I told somebody the other day that ask me about them not getting the open end of their coil spring into the upper pocket.
I said that a smart person takes a flash light and looks up in the upper spring pocket when everything is out and then marks on the outer frame where the end of the coil goes.
I'm thinking that what if you drilled a small hole from above right at the end of the spring pocket. So you could do a quick visual
03-26-2010, 11:44 AM
#36
What you are saying is 40/60. That mean that the wheel would compress easier and the 60 number would hold the body down longer.
If your just sporting around on the street 40/60 50/50 60/40 are all good settings depending on your spring rate. If you have 400# springs I would lean more towards 60/40. or 70/30 keeps your front end from diving or corner roll in and off the gas tight turn.
But lets say you are on the track with big corner rumble strips and your hitting them at 120 mph. You want the wheel to take the object shock without lifting the body. So for that turn and that front wheel you might want both light compression and rebound so your tire stays in contact with the rumble strip and comes right back down on the pavement.
I imagine with my very light front end car and 600# I might end up with a 5-6 clicks of compression and 7-8 rebound with 20 being the highest. If it feels bouncy I would up the compression first.
If your just sporting around on the street 40/60 50/50 60/40 are all good settings depending on your spring rate. If you have 400# springs I would lean more towards 60/40. or 70/30 keeps your front end from diving or corner roll in and off the gas tight turn.
But lets say you are on the track with big corner rumble strips and your hitting them at 120 mph. You want the wheel to take the object shock without lifting the body. So for that turn and that front wheel you might want both light compression and rebound so your tire stays in contact with the rumble strip and comes right back down on the pavement.
I imagine with my very light front end car and 600# I might end up with a 5-6 clicks of compression and 7-8 rebound with 20 being the highest. If it feels bouncy I would up the compression first.
03-26-2010, 01:24 PM
#37
Premium Supporting Vendor
At this point, I'd think your setup should be able to handle 1000# springs without the frame bending out of shape. Unibody C4s were running springrates like that from the factory. Of course, they did tend to get wonky with the roofs removed.
1000# makes a whole lot more sense in an autocross, where the course is typically very flat and the cars are driven 60 seconds at a time. Of course, they don't have to be capable of running much longer than 60 seconds either.
1000# makes a whole lot more sense in an autocross, where the course is typically very flat and the cars are driven 60 seconds at a time. Of course, they don't have to be capable of running much longer than 60 seconds either.
I'm on the same page as you as that is what we like to set up cars with. All of this is predicated on mechanical grip and tire compound.
Soft Tire Compounds are better with with the big spring rates, medium bars and soft compression as it let the car transition better and helps turn in. You don't need as much weight transfer. Grant it this combo also requires the driver to have a smaller sweet spot and it's not as forgiving. Danny Popp was on bias ply tires in a 69 Corvette with 1600# front springs. He has a couple championships. Eric Currin in a Gen 3 Camaro was on 2000# front springs.
Hard Tire Compounds are better with the softer springs and bigger bars along with a higher roll center. The higher RC allows better weight transfer and the drivers sweet spot is greatly increased and easier to drive.
03-26-2010, 02:04 PM
#38
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Let's look at this logically. I'll use round numbers. Take my Vette at 3000 pounds and install 1600# front springs. If my big front Wilwood brakes and hoosier 315 R6 road racing slicks could create 100% weight x-fer under severe braking. My front end would compress less than one inch in a straight line and less than one inch going around a turn even up on the outside two wheels.
That type of suspension is only good for a trailer queen Auto-X car. I think that it would break the frames on a stock C-3 street car.
I'm kind of converting my Vette back for pure street use or maybe a couple of lapping events a year. Springs are cheap so I might buy some 800's for race days
I've also managed to get 58% rear and 42% front weight bias
That type of suspension is only good for a trailer queen Auto-X car. I think that it would break the frames on a stock C-3 street car.
I'm kind of converting my Vette back for pure street use or maybe a couple of lapping events a year. Springs are cheap so I might buy some 800's for race days
I've also managed to get 58% rear and 42% front weight bias
03-26-2010, 03:59 PM
#39
Le Mans Master
I'm on the same page as you as that is what we like to set up cars with. All of this is predicated on mechanical grip and tire compound.
Soft Tire Compounds are better with with the big spring rates, medium bars and soft compression as it let the car transition better and helps turn in. You don't need as much weight transfer. Grant it this combo also requires the driver to have a smaller sweet spot and it's not as forgiving. Danny Popp was on bias ply tires in a 69 Corvette with 1600# front springs. He has a couple championships. Eric Currin in a Gen 3 Camaro was on 2000# front springs.
Hard Tire Compounds are better with the softer springs and bigger bars along with a higher roll center. The higher RC allows better weight transfer and the drivers sweet spot is greatly increased and easier to drive.
The local autocross guys run high spring rates like you talk about, but none of the vintage Corvette racer's I know do (their original frames also fatigue and crack with surprising regularity.) If the geometry is corrected for a decent camber curve, the factory Daytona springs at around 900 in/lbs (front) and 400 in/lbs (rear) work fairly well on open road courses.
03-26-2010, 04:49 PM
#40
Premium Supporting Vendor
Danny Popp while being an amazing driver was running spring rates like this on flat autocross courses, I don't recall him ever running the 72 LT-1 on open road race courses like he does the C5 Z06. Ask him and I'll bet he isn't running excessive spring rates on his dual purpose C5 Vette.
The local autocross guys run high spring rates like you talk about, but none of the vintage Corvette racer's I know do (their original frames also fatigue and crack with surprising regularity.) If the geometry is corrected for a decent camber curve, the factory Daytona springs at around 900 in/lbs (front) and 400 in/lbs (rear) work fairly well on open road courses.
The local autocross guys run high spring rates like you talk about, but none of the vintage Corvette racer's I know do (their original frames also fatigue and crack with surprising regularity.) If the geometry is corrected for a decent camber curve, the factory Daytona springs at around 900 in/lbs (front) and 400 in/lbs (rear) work fairly well on open road courses.
Didn't Dick Guldstrand run 1050# coils up front and a 500#ish rear spring?
I'm not here to argue #'s or get into a pissing match. These are the types of spring rates and bars sizes we use to set up several other race cars as well. We adjust spring rates on driver ability and tires. With race cars some times you need to mod the frame to strengthen it. These set ups are not a 1 size fit all. We take what we learn on Sunday and make it available on Monday. Wether you choose to listen or not is upon you.
GKull,
I didn't realize you had so much rear spring weight so you wouldn't need that much higher of spring rate.