AWilson

Why do the new crate engines perform better? Why can't I take my correct 327 block and 350hp heads, buy a decent cam for low end and have my cake and eat it too? In other words it looks stock outside but internally modified to give good results. It seems like being equal or even close to the crate engines is a tough act to follow? Weren't these cars fast? I thought they were fast but just had bad handling? Sounds like 9 out of 10 rebuilds are disappointing in the performance and the owners spend the money and wish they bought a crate engine. Then they have a worthless engine and won't have the money for the crate engine. I don't wan't to be that guy. All I want to do is hit the gas on the green light and spin the tires for a while. I want it satisfyingly fast. I think that puts me in the category of the "weekend Warrior". But it doesn't have to be the fastest car on the street. Thats not realistic.
Were the good old days not so good?
Can I get very good performance from the 327 block and externally identical heads? If so -how?
If not, how could all the small block Vettes be dogs for all those years?
You would think that if a Vette has the highest HP rated stock 327 in it it would be a fast car?

Bottom line I guess is I don't know enough to make decisions. One guys idea of fast is another guys non - performer.

1fastC3

you could buy some acid ported heads or have your heads ported by a speed shop if you want to keep the stock look, nhra stock racers use acid porting to make more power and remain 'stock' same goes for the intake, if you want the power of a 350 in a 327 you just have to spin it a little higher, a 350 is just a stroked 327 anyways. for more tips on making big power you may want to check out www.speedtalk.com and read up on other peoples successes and failures here as well. a buddy of mine is making about 450hp with stock compression lift, heads, and intake, he stock races in nhra, he has acid ported heads and intake and insane duration on the cam, if its power you want shave down the heads a little bit, have them ported and get a good mech flat tappet cam with some roller rockers, thats about as good as it gets unless you want to buy heads, intake and a carb also.

-alex

billla

There's no reason you can't have an engine that appears completely stock on the outside but is built to produce "modern" power. I've built many "restified" engines that have a look from completely stock (including stock fuel lines, correct clamps, etc.) to just looking very, VERY "factory".

The biggest limitations are heads and intakes. Head technology has changed a lot just in the last few years and we're lucky to have some great tools in the toolbox for performance. That's not to say that a set of older heads can't be brought up to a great level of performace - larger valves, swept chambers, porting, etc. - just that it's not financially responsible unless the intent is a completely stock looking engine (casting marks, etc.)

Intakes are the second issue, specifically the low-rise cast-iron Q-jet manifold. It's not a bad manifold - but it's not going to support a massive cam and high-flow heads.

All in all, you can build a stock-looking 327 that's pretty darn hot - making over 400HP at the flywheel - with a few investments such as:

- Ported heads
- Big cam
- Detail in assembly (port matching, etc.)
- Solid bottom-end

Start with the heads and work your way back to the rest of the engine. You CAN get what you want with a bit of $$$ invested!

Next step beyond that requires some thinking about what originality you're willing to sacrifice for performance. Headers? Heads that are painted orange...but are the latest technology and are visualy different? Spacers under the stock vavle covers to leave room for roller rockers? An orange-painted aluminum intake - or the Holley intake that is *very* similar to the LT-1 intake with the name "Holley" ground off? A different timing cover with room for a cam button? Once we start thinking about stock looking engines, the possibilities open up considerably and power is limited only by your budget

Matt Gruber

in '75 i put a $50 283 in my 61.
took my friend for a ride
"WOW! I CANT BELIEVE I SOLD YOU THIS 283 for $50."
the secret?
4165 6210 DP Holley.
.
what carb do u have?

billla

A carb won't pass through what the engine won't use No top secret spy stuff needed

Probably a good catch to a broader question if everything's tuned right and working - investing in a good dyno tune can make a world of difference between an engine that's a bit "soft" and one with good throttle response and "grunt".

Matt Gruber

some think a carb is a carb.
some think a car is a car.
why drive a vette when a xxxxx will do.
that's why it is a secret; few understand it.

ghoastrider1

back when the Corvette still used the 327, they were fast. They are still fast in todays world. The new crate engines have new Tech. heads and intakes. Eaiser to make more power or as much power. 350 and 383s have longer strokes..equals more tourque..equals more bottom end power. Aint nothing wrong with the "old stuff" just harder AND more expensive to get the same power levels. Air flow = horsepower

billla

All those years just thinking a carb is a carb; I'm one that doesn't understand it. To think that a Holley Q-Jet replacement was it and I missed it after all these years I guess I'll have to keep looking for that 1100 HP, 300 MPG carb...

Secret Service ->

Matt Gruber

of course there are numerous other improvements, but, yes, i was quite surprised that the 4165 was overlooked by many here. Lucky for me, it was explained to me in 1975....
When i bought my 72 it had a 1850 600cfm on it. Then i bought a 4165 for my 61 (old one was stolen) and i put the 4165 on my 72 just to get it set up for my apart 61.
Well, i never took it off.
But u guys need consensus to buy anything, so you rarely if ever get the better but not heavily advertised items.

billla

Matt, I guess I don't understand your perspective but I'll let it go. Seems like your position is always that you have a magic secret that the rest of us just wouldn't - and couldn't - understand.

IMHO there's no "magic" carb that's going to fundamentally change the driving experience. Any properly functioning and tuned carb that's sized appropriately is going to do the job. A spreadbore carb is always a good choice - small primaries, large secondaries is a great configuration for a street engine - but the Q-jet that's already on there is equally as good if more difficult (IMHO) to tune.

TopGunn

Well, just so you don't think crate engines are perfect............I bought one and thought the performance sucked!! So I spent a bunch of money on a brand new engine then spent more to get what I wanted anyway. There's no magic formula and as they say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". What makes sense for me might not make sense for you. After all the time and effort I spent talking to people and reading information on this forum and others what I got I wasen't satisfied with, but I do know guys who bought the same thing as me and loved it.

I always plan on spending more $$ on anything I get knowing it isn't going to be exactly what I want and it usually works out that way for me.

Good luck on whatever you choose.

Bill

Matt Gruber

1st- no secret! i tell everybody!
then u call it a "magic" carb WTF?
so u discredit the carb. WTF?
u never used it? WTF?
u have no clue.
your mind is made up! good for u!
i didn't invent the 4165.
it is just superior to what is popular here. Others with an open mind can read a little more: http://community.webtv.net/MATTGRU/AFtesting but i really am not being encouraged by your comments to write more about the 4165

yellow 72

We just went through this same with the valve adjustment techniques....

Matt 'ol buddy you really don't have the patent on opinions.

IrishMac

Careful guys.

billla

I don't know where you gathered all these impressions - all mistaken. Primary value of your "AFtesting" page seems to be:

"It also has the coolest sound you will ever hear at WOT WAAAAAAA. Man, that is a mean, and powerful sound. Your friends will think you added a zillion HP when you give them a ride"

In any case, we'll agree that a spreadbore carb - aftermarket or factory - is a great street carb. An aftermarket is likely not the right choice in this scenario of a factory-looking engine that delivers more performance than stock.

VetteThunder1

Another suggestion for a stock looking engine and good performance.

Send your engine off to a high performance engine builder and get it build up nicely that way. Discuss the budget with them and see what the options are for your application. A couple of very good shops are:

Speed-O_Motive

Smeding

And there are many others too.

Note: if you want original or stock look and performance its gonna cost $$$.

If you are willing to compromise then a crate engine will give you a very good cost/performance ratio.

Andrew

couperdecar

AWilson writes :All I want to do is hit the gas on the green light and spin the tires for a while. I want it satisfyingly fast.


my own .02 ? Get one of the 2 available 4 sp overdrive transmissions. 1st gear will give you 30% more torque than your old tranny. 4th give will drop your RPM by 30% . So your old 3.55 gears 'look' like 4.61's at the green light. That otta spin the tires! And out on the highway your "3.55s" have magicly turned into "2.49s"

I put one in my '79 for about $1000. Everyone I've EVER talked to about this swap has always said that it was the BEST upgrade they ever made to the car.
And I've bumped my mileage from 19 mph to 25.8

Or you can dump $1000 bucks into heads and 'try' to get 30% more torque to spin those tires.

just my .02

billla

That's a great observation!

I had the chance to ride in a few 5 and 6 speed converstions a few months ago and they were awesome! All "SOTP", but quite a difference nonetheless. AND, pretty much invisible from the top as many of them have a Corvette-style shifter available. I don't remember the brand, but one I rode in had a very nice replacement shift placard on the console with the "new" shifting pattern - very nice touch.

couperdecar

thanks Billa. This conversion rocks and should be #1 on everyones list. I stuck in the 700R4 , but would probably do the 200- 4R next time. Although the 700R was an easy swap , I did have to cut the driveshaft and had to get it balanced 2wice. Not a big deal but when they're busy its just more down time. I understand the 200 4R is 'almost' a straight swap for the TH350.
Anyway Bowtie Overdrives makes everything easy .


http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml

just do it

Phil Zell

That 68 block should be a large journal crank which means a 400 crank will work with 5.7 rods, a set of flat top pistons, 2.02 valves in those 291 heads, keep the Q-Jet and intake and you can fry the tires at will.
You have now changed that 327 into a 383 Have fun