c3 hot starting
04-11-2007, 03:43 AM
#1
Heel & Toe
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c3 hot starting
hi,i have a 1978 c3 pace car,when i take it for a fairly long run and come to restart it when the engine is hot it wont start,fine when it cools down.can anyone tell me what is breaking down when it is hot and how to rectify it.many thanks berny ENGLAND.
04-11-2007, 04:19 AM
#2
Instructor
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wont start, as in wont turn the engine around or just wont spark it?
it's a very common problem with heat soaked starters that refuses to turn the engine when theyre hot.
problem is solved by replacing the starter, i had very good results eleminating this problem by using gear reduction/ministarters they seem to be more forgiving to extreme temperatures.
Thre has been numerous posts about his problem and lately a debate for or against ministarters, my personal experience has been 100% positive with the 20+ i have installed of many diferent brands.
If the engine is turned but wont start it's likely to be a ignition problem, maybe to weak a spark.
it's a very common problem with heat soaked starters that refuses to turn the engine when theyre hot.
problem is solved by replacing the starter, i had very good results eleminating this problem by using gear reduction/ministarters they seem to be more forgiving to extreme temperatures.
Thre has been numerous posts about his problem and lately a debate for or against ministarters, my personal experience has been 100% positive with the 20+ i have installed of many diferent brands.
If the engine is turned but wont start it's likely to be a ignition problem, maybe to weak a spark.
Last edited by PNK; 04-11-2007 at 04:21 AM.
Get a new GM starter, or even a new GM mini starter.
04-11-2007, 09:24 AM
#4
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It isn't always heat soaked or bad starters that cause these hot hard start problems. It can be a weak battery or poor grounds. Check them first.
05-15-2007, 02:21 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
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Heat doesn't really affect the ground, it lowers the efeciency of the starter. All starters work less well Hot than Cold and will require more current to turn the motor over fast enough to start it without the voltage from the battery dropping below the level required to spark the ignition. A marginal ground or battery will not the current needed.
A marginal starter will work good enough to work if given enough juice from a fresh battery and good cables.
Now, some very marginal connections will get worse when hot because the thing is about to fall apart and the heat makes it looser then when cold.
A marginal starter will work good enough to work if given enough juice from a fresh battery and good cables.
Now, some very marginal connections will get worse when hot because the thing is about to fall apart and the heat makes it looser then when cold.
05-15-2007, 05:29 PM
#8
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vapor lock?
What is the issue exactly?
Does the starter click? DOes it seem weak?
I would say a more common issue would be vapor lock.
Can you describe the issue in more detail?
Thanks,
Joe
Does the starter click? DOes it seem weak?
I would say a more common issue would be vapor lock.
Can you describe the issue in more detail?
Thanks,
Joe
05-15-2007, 07:59 PM
#10
Race Director
The worst enemy of starters is heat BUT generated by low voltage caused by a weak battery, not engine heat.. If a starter works cold it will work hot so his starter is ok. This car is a candidate for a AVR check. 'cranking and charging' that should also include a battery analysis. Dont send him out to buy parts and spend his money tbefore you actually know what to buy,...
Last edited by Ironcross; 05-15-2007 at 08:02 PM.
05-15-2007, 08:06 PM
#11
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After the engine is hot an you have this hot start problem, lean under the car and tap on the starter motor with a small hammer a few times. Nothing hard or destructive. Then try starting. If it fires immediately then you may be looked at a new starter.
05-16-2007, 01:41 PM
#12
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Heat increases the resistance in the windings of the starter and wires to the starter. Check the battery and all the connections (frame ground too) first then proceed to new starter.
If it doesn't work then, hit it with a hammer
05-16-2007, 01:53 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Go to Advance, or the equivlent, and get a new starter. They are not that expensive. If you are numbers matching or original guy, you can have the starter rebuilt. Thats what I did........LT
05-16-2007, 08:35 PM
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Mine was doing the same thing. It would act like the battery was dead after it warmed up. After not finding anything wrong with the battery or alt. I tried a heat shield around the starter. It works fine now. The headers are too close to the starter.
05-18-2007, 02:20 PM
#17
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I had the same problem. After I would take the car for a run, sometimes not even that long, when I would try to restart I would get nothing when I turned the key, no click or anything. Got to the point I was scared to stop and get gas in fear I couldn't get my car started again.
My battery was only 1/2 year old. Had it tested, came out okay. I cleaned and checked all my grounds and connections. Still had the same problem. I decided to install a mini-starter. Works everytime now.
Check other things first but I just bought a mini starter to be done with it.
My battery was only 1/2 year old. Had it tested, came out okay. I cleaned and checked all my grounds and connections. Still had the same problem. I decided to install a mini-starter. Works everytime now. Check other things first but I just bought a mini starter to be done with it.
05-24-2007, 09:49 PM
#18
Racer
Have any of you guys tried to Solenoid Relocation mod? Headers and the GM starter/solenoid set up produce a ton of head next to the starter solenoid. Heat soak does indeed create most of the hot start problems. But as I understand it the solenoid is what gets too hot.
I've recently read about using a underhood mounted solenoid and you jump from this relocated part to the original starter and solenoid. (Don't laugh but it is a Ford soleniod that is used). If you have not heard of this do a quick google search and take a look. So popular that some Performance Shops carry complete kits with wiring, heat shrink and solenoids. Was just about to order the parts and decided to check the archives here to see what turns up. My only questions are the best location to mount since our vette batteries are not under the hood.
I've recently read about using a underhood mounted solenoid and you jump from this relocated part to the original starter and solenoid. (Don't laugh but it is a Ford soleniod that is used). If you have not heard of this do a quick google search and take a look. So popular that some Performance Shops carry complete kits with wiring, heat shrink and solenoids. Was just about to order the parts and decided to check the archives here to see what turns up. My only questions are the best location to mount since our vette batteries are not under the hood.
05-24-2007, 11:45 PM
#20
Race Director
